RMR .45 230gr. FMJ RN test results

[murf]

I normally don't change the COL unless I have some unreliable feeding. Changing the COL would probably change the accuracy, but I don't know if I will be able to determine if the difference is me or the COL. What I also will do once in a while is try and find/select consistent brass and bullets, and take extra care when I weigh the charges. When I actually seat the bullet on my single stage I would group them base on seating feel, to hopefully get a consistent neck tension. Then finally I would take a bit more time to concentrate when I test the load.

My feeling is that when I get to a grouping of around .4" to .6", that the difference is probably me and some luck.

thanks, vaalpens!

murf

 

[Walkalong]

My eyesight isn't what it used to be so having the mount a the scope helps for accuracy testing.

Amen to that, it helps old eyes shoot to their potential again.

 

[Walkalong]

Lately I have been using the Dot Torture target at 5 or 7 yards to test POA/POC and practice my trigger control.

Nice, I like it, where did you get it from?

 

[Galil5.56]

Thanks for sharing your load results. I did not know there is such a difference between the velocities reached with 4.4" vs 5" barrels, but your results definitely highlighted the difference.

Here are some results of a 1911A1 vs a P220 you may find interesting, shot in the early/mid 90's with period data:

 

[vaalpens]

That IMI Defense mount works great. It may have been vaalpens that turned me onto it after a similar mount failed me miserably.

Works great.

Good to know that it is also working for. I was wondering if I just got lucky with mine.

Nice, I like it, where did you get it from?

Thanks. I downloaded it from http://pistol-training.com/drills/dot-torture

The test is actually for 50 rounds, but I just use it to test/practice POA/POI and trigger control, this 10 rounds are good enough for what I am after.

 

[vaalpens]

Here are some results of a 1911A1 vs a P220 you may find interesting, shot in the early/mid 90's with period data:

Thanks for sharing your results, your number also show the big difference. Interesting to note that the 230gr difference in velocity is around 2%-3% and the 200gr bullet 4%.

 

[Galil5.56]

Thanks for sharing your results, your number also show the big difference. Interesting to note that the 230gr difference in velocity is around 2%-3% and the 200gr bullet 4%.

You're welcome. FWIW, 5.6/5.7 gr WW231/HP38 will about exactly match military 230 grain FMJ velocity, and you might consider Power Pistol someday. Even when not pushed to the floorboards I find it very accurate and consistent, and it works so well with cast too... And when/if you feel like taking things up a notch, it does so very well in a lot of calibers, still staying accurate. I love Unique, but could stick with PP and be very pleased.

 

[vaalpens]

You're welcome. FWIW, 5.6/5.7 gr WW231/HP38 will about exactly match military 230 grain FMJ velocity, and you might consider Power Pistol someday. Even when not pushed to the floorboards I find it very accurate and consistent, and it works so well with cast too... And when/if you feel like taking things up a notch, it does so very well in a lot of calibers, still staying accurate. I love Unique, but could stick with PP and be very pleased.

Power Pistol is definitely on my radar to try out with the 230gr bullet. It is my go-to powder in 9mm. I will probably try BE86 and Power Pistol at the same time for comparison. BE86 so far has worked well for me with .45 200gr bullets, so it will be interesting to see how it performs with 230gr bullets.

 

[vaalpens]

Today it was time to test the 700x loads with the RMR 230gr FMJ RN bullet. Overall I was happy with the results. It seems that 700x performs well in 45acp. It delivered one very good grouping, and the rest were not bad at all for 15 yard. Following are the results:

Please note that these were tested at 15 yards, using a rest, and a scope that wasn't zeroed.

45acp, P220, 4.4"
Case: Winchester
COL: 1.255"
RMR, 230gr, FMJRN, 700X, 4.3gr, CCI300
Average: 674
ES: 27
SD: 11
Force: 232
PF: 155
Velocities: 662, 665, 677, 679, 689
Grouping @ 15yd: 1.37"
Test Date: 10/21/2018


45acp, P220, 4.4"
Case: Winchester
COL: 1.255"
RMR, 230gr, FMJRN, 700X, 4.4gr, CCI300
Average: 687
ES: 23
SD: 10.6
Force: 241
PF: 158
Velocities: 679, 695, 696, 673, 694
Grouping @ 15yd: 0.62"
Test Date: 10/21/2018

45acp, P220, 4.4"
Case: Winchester
COL: 1.255"
RMR, 230gr, FMJRN, 700X, 4.5gr, CCI300
Average: 695
ES: 33
SD: 12.6
Force: 247
PF: 159
Velocities: 695, 704, 694, 709, 676
Grouping @ 15yd: 1.62"
Test Date: 10/21/2018

45acp, P220, 4.4"
Case: Winchester
COL: 1.255"
RMR, 230gr, FMJRN, 700X, 4.6gr, CCI300
Average: 716
ES: 8
SD: 3
Force: 262
PF: 164
Velocities: 716, 713, 715, 721, 715
Grouping @ 15yd: 1.75"
Test Date: 10/21/2018


45acp, P220, 4.4"
Case: Winchester
COL: 1.255"
RMR, 230gr, FMJRN, 700X, 4.7gr, CCI300
Average: 728
ES: 17
SD: 6.6
Force: 271
PF: 167
Velocities: 718, 727, 731, 735, 732
Grouping @ 15yd: 1.12"
Test Date: 10/21/2018

45acp, P220, 4.4"
Case: Winchester
COL: 1.255"
RMR, 230gr, FMJRN, 700X, 4.8gr, CCI300
Average: 742
ES: 15
SD: 7.6
Force: 281
PF: 170
Velocities: 735, 747, 734, 749, 749
Grouping @ 15yd: 1.24"
Test Date: 10/21/2018

 

[Galil5.56]

Great shooting and data. Thanks (from a chronograph junky).

 

[vaalpens]

Great shooting and data. Thanks (from a chronograph junky).

Thanks. I did not see any errors from the chrono, even though the sun was behind me and low on the horizon. Overall I was happy with the chrono performance, and the results from the loads I tested.

 

[Dudedog]

With a 230 RN 4.7gr of HP38 shoots well for me and is a bit lighter 5.0gr HP38 shoots maybe a hair better but is a bit stiffer.
Hodgdon list a MAX of 5.3gr so 5gr is still down from the max.

Looks like 4.4 of 700x shot well and was probably a nice pleasant load.
(Not that Full power .45 is unpleasant but lighter is nicer if you are going to shoot bunch IMO)
Got to remember .45 bullets make bigger holes so it is harder to get small groups.

Walkalong? (someone) mentioned that WST works really well in .45 for light-medium loads and is clean, need to put it on my list of things to try when I get around to it.

 

[Walkalong]

Walkalong? (someone) mentioned that WST works really well in .45 for light-medium loads and is clean,

Haven't tried it yet, but have read the same thing numerous times. Over all WST is very good stuff, so I would not be surprised. I'm still working on the 2K of.45 ACP I loaded some time back.

 

[Blue68f100]

If your shooting 185gr or 200 gr LSWC try 4.1-4.2 gr of WST. This is a classic BE load used in competition. And it is clean at even these low charges. The min is actually 4.4 gr printed in manuals. As you know BE shooters work down not up. These will operate my slide with a C-More dot sight mounted and std recoil spring.

 

[LiveLife]

Got to remember .45 bullets make bigger holes so it is harder to get small groups.

When groups are measured center-to-center, size of holes won't matter whether shooting 22LR/.223 or 45ACP. I have been standardizing many of my range testing methods and using center-to-center groups will be next on my list to measure test groups in the future.

Here's 25 yard 10 shot group measured edge-to-edge/outside-to-outside (Note I did not include two outer holes for demonstration purposes. Actual group size measurement would include all bullet holes.)

While you can approximate center of bullet holes, here's same group measured center-to-center with free On Target program (Program uses circles around each hole to locate center of each bullet hole) - https://ontargetshooting.com/ontarget-pc/#info-otpc

 

[Walkalong]

Groups should always be measured center to center.

 

[Dudedog]

When groups are measured center-to-center, size of holes won't matter whether shooting 22LR/.223 or 45ACP.

True, I realize that, and as Walkalong pointed out they should be measured center to center.

But that spoils my bullet size joke.
I just wanted to put in a plug for the nice big(er) .45 cal bullets, which is why I included the
Sorry if I mislead anybody.

 

[LiveLife]

I just wanted to put in a plug for the nice big(er) .45 cal bullets

Roger that.

After doing 9mm testing, seeing big huge 45ACP holes on target for some reason brings a slow smile to my face that does not go away.

 

[vaalpens]

True, I realize that, and as Walkalong pointed out they sould be measured center to center.

But that spoils my bullet size joke.
I just wanted to put in a plug for the nice big(er) .45 cal bullets, which is why I included the
Sorry if I mislead anybody.

I thought you were joking.

One thing though with the .45 is that it easier to shoot clover leave. This weekend I was just testing one of my loads at 7yards without scope to check the POI. The front sight covered the dot at 7yards, but I was more interested in POI. I shot a nice clover leave and thought wow, must be a nice small group. After measuring it at home I realized it was only a .405" grouping, which is about a .869" grouping at 15 yards. Not that good but it looked impressive.

The load used was Berrys 200gr RS and 6.3gr of BE-86. COL is 1.175".

 

[Dudedog]

Always nice when they all touch!!!!
Gives me that warm fuzzy feeling almost like a hug.
Nice shooting.

(side note: I mostly shoot 9mm so seeing .45 cal holes every now and then makes me )

 

[Toprudder]

I always like to see all holes touching. I finally figured out that my problem isn't that my shooting is not accurate enough, I just need to find something that shoots 2" bullets.

 

[Blue68f100]

I always like to see all holes touching. I finally figured out that my problem isn't that my shooting is not accurate enough, I just need to find something that shoots 2" bullets.

Those long skinny bullets don't make any bigger holes...

 

[CoalTrain49]

When I first started shooting 45 ACP the powder shortage had just started. I found a 1 lb bottle of BE and used it up. Tried to buy more but it was one of the first to leave and the last to come back. People started using all kinds of powder to replace it. I had an 8 lb jug of Alliant American Select so tired that. That worked well and I never went back to BE. I couldn't tell the difference except AS burns cleaner. I've always used 230 grain bullets. My reasoning was it was the original bullet weight for the cartridge. I would try some 200's but I've already got my load using 230's for my Gold Cup. Presently working on a load for a carbine. So many guns, so little time.

 

[vaalpens]

On Monday I tested another few loads with the RMR 230gr FMJ RN bullet. There are still a few additional powders I want to test, but I am slowly but surely adding some additional load data points for this bullet. The chrono data on Monday was all over the place and is possibly the reason why the velocities are a bit lower. I expected it to be closer to the Sport Pistol loads, but it is what it is.

The following test data was gathered by testing at 15 yard using a rest and a scope that was not zeroed:

45acp, P220, 4.4"
Case: KFA
COL: 1.255"
RMR, 230gr, FMJRN, HP38, 4.9gr, CCI300
Average: 651
ES: 27
SD: 13.2
Force: 216
PF: 149
Velocities: 664, 660, 638, 660, 637
Grouping @ 15yd: 1.75"
Test Date: 12/24/2018



45acp, P220, 4.4"
Case: KFA
COL: 1.255"
RMR, 230gr, FMJRN, HP38, 5gr, CCI300
Average: 663
ES: 68
SD: 25.8
Force: 224
PF: 152
Velocities: 631, 699, 667, 648, 673
Grouping @ 15yd: 0.72"
Test Date: 12/24/2018



45acp, P220, 4.4"
Case: KFA
COL: 1.255"
RMR, 230gr, FMJRN, HP38, 5.1gr, CCI300
Average: 675
ES: 71
SD: 29.3
Force: 233
PF: 155
Velocities: 659, 687, 658, 650, 721
Grouping @ 15yd: 0.74"
Test Date: 12/24/2018



45acp, P220, 4.4"
Case: KFA
COL: 1.255"
RMR, 230gr, FMJRN, HP38, 5.2gr, CCI300
Average: 699
ES: 60
SD: 22.1
Force: 249
PF: 160
Velocities: 706, 731, 689, 671, 698
Grouping @ 15yd: 0.82"
Test Date: 12/24/2018

45acp, P220, 4.4"
Case: KFA
COL: 1.255"
RMR, 230gr, FMJRN, HP38, 5.3gr, CCI300
Average: 725
ES: 44
SD: 17.7
Force: 268
PF: 166
Velocities: 713, 753, 719, 709, 731
Grouping @ 15yd: 1.2"
Test Date: 12/24/2018

45acp, P220, 4.4"
Case: KFA
COL: 1.255"
RMR, 230gr, FMJRN, HP38, 5.4gr, CCI300
Average: 729
ES: 43
SD: 17.4
Force: 271
PF: 167
Velocities: 744, 746, 731, 703, 725
Grouping @ 15yd: 1.12"
Test Date: 12/24/2018

45acp, P220, 4.4"
Case: KFA
COL: 1.255"
RMR, 230gr, FMJRN, HP38, 5.5gr, CCI300
Average: 754
ES: 41
SD: 16.7
Force: 290
PF: 173
Velocities: 766, 731, 744, 758, 772
Grouping @ 15yd: 1.16"
Test Date: 12/24/2018

 

[vaalpens]

All my test data for this bullet so far has been combined in two images to show how the different powders compare in precision and velocity. I have also added some color gradients that highlights the better grouping loads. Following are the overviews of the powder loads so far: