HK or XD

[David E]

Umm... maybe I'm missing something here, but decocking the gun doesn't disable the trigger. You just get a heavier pull.

Once you release the lever to allow the linkage to reengage, you're correct. But taking incoming fire, that may not be the first thing that pops into your head to fix the problem.

And if you're too inept to handle the Safety/Decocker combo,

It's interesting how rabidly some fanboys protect their chosen item of worship. I simply pointed out a fatal design flaw that has revealed itself in the hands of cops and others. Oh, wait, they should get more training....

I don't care for HK's for a variety of reasons, this being but one of them.

 

[GTSteve03]

I simply pointed out a fatal design flaw that has revealed itself in the hands of cops and others.

Really? Can you point to a single instance where the decocker has lead to the death of someone when they accidentally decocked their pistol?

 

[broken]

.......

i would recomend a m/p over a h/k or x/d.if i liked tupperware it would be a m/p.ill keep my steel .

 

[David E]

Really? Can you point to a single instance where the decocker has lead to the death of someone when they accidentally decocked their pistol?

Oh, does someone HAVE TO DIE before it's a vaild concern?

Wow! Tough crowd !

I didn't say anyone died. There may be some deaths attributed to this flaw, I don't know. I DO know that cops across the country have had issues with inadvertant decocking during a string of fire. It's not too hard to extrapolate that it could happen during an armed confrontation.

If this has never happened to you, great. I hope it doesn't happen for the first time during a gunfight.

.

 

[GTSteve03]

I didn't say anyone died.

The word "fatal" generally refers to death.

If this has never happened to you, great. I hope it doesn't happen for the first time during a gunfight.

I doubt it will happen to me in this instance as I don't even own an HK. So much for being a fanboy.

 

[ArmedBear]

The word "fatal" generally refers to death.

"Fatal design flaw" does not refer to the death of a specific individual.

A cleverly-veiled straw man argument, or evidence of functional illiteracy? You make the call.

I don't care whether you like the HK or XD. I have and like one of them, but I have no dog in this fight. I just think this should be kept to some semblance of a rational discussion.

 

[GTSteve03]

Just for you, ArmedTeddy:

Except that, in the heat of the moment when you grip the gun extra tight, you can unexpectedly DECOCK THE GUN when you're trying to SHOOT the badguy who's trying to kill you.

FATAL design flaw in the HK's

The OP was implying that in a life or death situation, the "design flaw" of the HK would indeed lead to your death.

But thanks for providing nothing useful to the thread.

 

[David E]

Perhaps a reading class is in order, Steve !

I said: Except that, in the heat of the moment when you grip the gun extra tight, you can unexpectedly DECOCK THE GUN when you're trying to SHOOT the badguy who's trying to kill you.

I didn't say you "WILL" or "MUST" decock it during a gunfight, only that you CAN decock it. It's happened on the firing range with little stress being present. If you were taking incoming fire, that's a bad time for that to happen..........or do you disagree?

I doubt it will happen to me in this instance as I don't even own an HK.

I find it interesting that people that DON'T EVEN OWN the gun in question seem to know MORE about it than people that do, or more than those that assist in training cops that must, by regulation, use them.

I wonder..............what gun DO you use for personal defense ?

 

[KBintheSLC]

Did you guys here about that guy that shot the Pastor this last Sunday, the shooter had a .45 Glock and it jammed (THANK GOD) after 3 shots.

Its strange, but my buddies Glock 21 failed to feed at the range this last week. I though it may be mag related... he said he has never cleaned his mags.
I have 3 Glocks that have never ever failed... 2 in 9mm and 1 in 10mm. I wonder if the failures are more likely with the 45 acp Glocks. I have read about more failures with 45 Glocks than with 9's and 40's.

On the topic... I would get the one you like best as others stated. I personally think the XD45 is a fantastic package at a better price compared to the HK.

 

[David E]

M&P .45 is a viable choice, also.

If the Glock 21 is considered, be sure and check out and hold the 21-SF. Feels almost like a different gun. (and that's a good thing!)

.

 

[Dan Crocker]

I really like both guns, but I bought the XD 45. I don't think you are getting $400 more out of an HK, and those mags aren't cheap...
My XD hasn't disappointed me in the least. I'm sure I would have been happy with the HK as well, but I made my choice!

 

[GTSteve03]

I didn't say you "WILL" or "MUST" decock it during a gunfight, only that you CAN decock it. It's happened on the firing range with little stress being present. If you were taking incoming fire, that's a bad time for that to happen..........or do you disagree?

I don't disagree that it's poor timing, but it doesn't make it a fatal design flaw by any stretch of the imagination as all it leads to is a heavier trigger pull, still allowing the shot to go off. And, if one had trained even slightly with the pistol beforehand, they would notice if they tend to accidentally decock the gun when firing and could work around it by many different means.

I find it interesting that people that DON'T EVEN OWN the gun in question seem to know MORE about it than people that do, or more than those that assist in training cops that must, by regulation, use them.

I wonder..............what gun DO you use for personal defense ?

Just because I don't own one currently doesn't mean I've never owned one. I personally have owned an HK USP Compact 9mm in the past, and learned a lot about it while I owned it. Mine was the standard safety/decocker and I never had a single problem with accidentally decocking it while shooting, in fact the decocker was not easy to use as you had to push down the lever rather smartly. I ended up selling it as I found the recoil oddly high for a 9mm. It might have been due to how it fit my hand (or didn't fit as the case might have been.)

I currently carry a GLOCK 17, but am not totally happy with it either, but it works well enough for now.

 

[ar10]

With all the comments about decocking and cocking I'd get the XD. It's simple, pull it out of holster, point, pull trigger, and you learn very quickly not to put finger on trigger until ready to fire.

 

[David E]

I don't disagree that it's poor timing, but it doesn't make it a fatal design flaw by any stretch of the imagination as all it leads to is a heavier trigger pull, still allowing the shot to go off.

Under the severe stress of a gunfight, it's common to grip the gun harder than ever before. Things that may have never happened during a relaxing practice session can very well happen for the first time during a gunfight.

If you HOLD the decocking lever down, you CANNOT FIRE THE GUN until you release the lever enough to allow the linkage to reengage.

I already said that, but you apparently missed it the first time.

It's no stretch of the imagination at all to see where that can be, indeed, a fatal design flaw.

It certainly kills the gun for ME as any type of "serious" gun.

.

 

[GTSteve03]

It certainly kills the gun for ME as any type of "serious" gun.

That's fine for you.

But like I said before also, there are also many ways around this "problem" if you're unwilling to train correctly.

You can convert the gun to safety only or to the LEM trigger, either of which is easily done.

Your argument is pretty ridiculous considering the same thing could be said of any gun that has a thumb or grip safety. What if you forget to disengage the thumb safety before pulling the trigger? What about guns with grip safeties that require the correct hold or the gun won't fire? Are you opposed to 1911s and XDs because they require more training to use as well?