HK P7 PSP vs. Kahr K9: I need some help
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Peter M. Eick
Member
The answer to your questions:
If you did not catch that it was
P7
P7
P7.
Get one now while they are dirt cheap and never look back. If you are really concerned about range time buy 3 or more like I did and that way by the time you get back to the 1st one it has cooled down again.
If you did not catch that it was
P7
P7
P7.
Get one now while they are dirt cheap and never look back. If you are really concerned about range time buy 3 or more like I did and that way by the time you get back to the 1st one it has cooled down again.
Elm Creek Smith
Member
I just sold an early Kahr K9 in black finish. There was absolutely nothing wrong with the gun, I just realized I don't ever carry it anymore since my arthritis makes working he slide uncomfortable. It was durable (25,000 rounds in ten years), very concealable, and reliable (except with some Federal 147 grain Hydrashoks that a friend of my gave me).
The only time I saw a P7 was on a range in Germany. With the difference in the manual of arms for anything else I have or may have, I'd suggest if you go with the P7 stay with it.
ECS
The only time I saw a P7 was on a range in Germany. With the difference in the manual of arms for anything else I have or may have, I'd suggest if you go with the P7 stay with it.
ECS
silversport
Member
I disagree with the "if you have a P7, stay with a P7" philosophy...although I understand it, I can shoot a revolver, carry a 1911, switch to a GLOCK and then my P7 PSP...my brain can do this...I suspect yours can too...what I find so nice about the P7 is that it is the fastest on target (IMO)...pull and point while squeezing the grip plunger (squeeze cocker)...pull trigger...let go of plunger...or just remove your finger from the trigger guard for no shoot...easy...I would say that if you do buy one, you should practice with it but I think you should practice with whatever firearms you have...just my .02...
Bill
Bill
BrennanKG
Member
I've just started carrying my P7 (M8, not PSP) and I love it.
In fact, I may need another.
I've never shot any of the steel framed Kahrs but I like the polymer ones well enough. I imagine the steel versions would be more pleasant to shoot.
B.
In fact, I may need another.
I've never shot any of the steel framed Kahrs but I like the polymer ones well enough. I imagine the steel versions would be more pleasant to shoot.
B.
IMHO the P7, in any of its variants, is a much better gun. Kahrs IME are sound utility guns, but the P7 is fine piece of engineering with a much better trigger than the Kahr. The P7 with its fixed barrel has a well earned reputation for extreme reliability.
I recently acquired my first P7 (a P7M8) after thinking about it for a bunch of years, and I find it to be an exceptional gun.
In contrast, I also recently picked up a Kahr KP45. It's an okay appliance, but it would not be my pick for a long term personal weapon.
I recently acquired my first P7 (a P7M8) after thinking about it for a bunch of years, and I find it to be an exceptional gun.
In contrast, I also recently picked up a Kahr KP45. It's an okay appliance, but it would not be my pick for a long term personal weapon.
Try it under pressure and see. You'd be surprised what your brain will and won't do under pressure. There are a lot of things that are dead simple when there's nothing going on that become extremely difficult when the world starts blowing up. Remembering to squeeze the cocker- an action that you do not have to do on any other gun- is something that might be forgotten when everything starts going down the drain.
I'm not advocating against the P7. Heck, it might be the best defensive single stack 9mm ever. You just need to make sure that the manual of arms is second nature if you carry it defensively. Just assuming you will do it right in a pinch won't cut it.
War Story: I learned to shoot on a BHP. Drawing and flicking that safety down was second nature to me. Fast forward to my police academy, where we had 4506s (decock/safety was up to fire, down for decock/safe). I go through the entire month of firearms training with no snags, right up to the point where we did a high stress course.
I run up to the barricade, draw my 4506, and as it is coming up I flip that safety down to decock/safe, and then wonder why my trigger has no resistance and there's no loud bang. The drill sgt/RO then proceeded to (kindly and gently) inquire what in the
I thought I was doing.Yeah, "I thought I was shooting a Browning Hi-Power" didn't cut it then, and wouldn't have cut it on the street, either. Train until the manual of arms is second nature, and don't make things more complex than they need to be.
Mike
Coronach,
I agree completely. I have extensive experience with 1911s. I've taken classes with them, including 250 at Gunsite, and competed with them.
So then I bought my P7M8. I took it to the range and began running some of my usual drills -- presenting and firing quick 2, 3 and 4 shot strings at various distances. I was noticeably slower, more awkward, and less accurate with the P7 than any of my 1911s. Because of the P7's unique manual of arms I had to think about of every action. I was not smooth. In addition the trigger, although very good and manageable, was considerably different than the crisp triggers on my 1911s.
It quickly became apparent that the P7 was going to require some very focused practice. So I'm now working on simply my surprise break and smooth manipulation of the cocking lever. And that seems to be helping.
I agree completely. I have extensive experience with 1911s. I've taken classes with them, including 250 at Gunsite, and competed with them.
So then I bought my P7M8. I took it to the range and began running some of my usual drills -- presenting and firing quick 2, 3 and 4 shot strings at various distances. I was noticeably slower, more awkward, and less accurate with the P7 than any of my 1911s. Because of the P7's unique manual of arms I had to think about of every action. I was not smooth. In addition the trigger, although very good and manageable, was considerably different than the crisp triggers on my 1911s.
It quickly became apparent that the P7 was going to require some very focused practice. So I'm now working on simply my surprise break and smooth manipulation of the cocking lever. And that seems to be helping.
silversport
Member
Can you drive a car and then get on a motorcycle and ride that??? Of course you should train with your pistols and I agree with getting muscle memory as well as knowing how to operate your pistols, etc...when I have a shotgun in my hand, I know how it works (even though I own a Remington and the department has Mossberg)...I know when I have an AR-15 and I know when I have a handgun...you MUST train but you can have differing mecahnics in your firearms AND be proficient with them...
I felt the same several years ago when I transitioned from GLOCK to the 1911...I didn't carry my 1911 for a bit because I didn't feel comfortable with it...after going to the range and practicing, I feel supremely comfortable with the 1911A1, my P7 or GLOCK...even do well with the old SiGs (DA/SA), I just don't prefer them anymore...YMMV.
Bill
I felt the same several years ago when I transitioned from GLOCK to the 1911...I didn't carry my 1911 for a bit because I didn't feel comfortable with it...after going to the range and practicing, I feel supremely comfortable with the 1911A1, my P7 or GLOCK...even do well with the old SiGs (DA/SA), I just don't prefer them anymore...YMMV.
Bill
actually it's pretty natural to grip the "grip" .drawing a p7 or 1911 or bhp for me its all the same motion swipe the safety (thumb makes the same motion on p7 just does not do anything)three fingers grip the grip with 14+ pounds of pressure and neither 1911 or BHP is affected by this.I do think the backward safety on my walthers could cause problems.
Ps. I love my P7 (10 shots at 15 yards)
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MontanaBighorn
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i just see nothing special about the kahr. nothing "bad" other than the over-pricing, just nothing particularly special about them. there is however, a reason why the p7 has a cult-like following. CLICK HERE for those reasons.
although not listed as one of your choices, i would think the WALTHER PPS would be more comparable to the kahr than the p7.
although not listed as one of your choices, i would think the WALTHER PPS would be more comparable to the kahr than the p7.
Lets be clear. I'm not saying that the P7's manual of arms is incompatible with that of other guns. I'm just advising that you practice with it a lot before carrying it defensively.
A motorcycle/car analogy is suspect, because the two are so dissimilar. A better analogy would be one between a motorcycle set up with standard controls and one set up with the throttle or brake in a different position, or oriented a different way. Would that cause confusion in an emergency maneuver, if the rider was not fully versed in how the nonstandard cycle worked? Yep. Is it a difficulty that can be overcome with practice? Absolutely.
Mike
A motorcycle/car analogy is suspect, because the two are so dissimilar. A better analogy would be one between a motorcycle set up with standard controls and one set up with the throttle or brake in a different position, or oriented a different way. Would that cause confusion in an emergency maneuver, if the rider was not fully versed in how the nonstandard cycle worked? Yep. Is it a difficulty that can be overcome with practice? Absolutely.
Mike
Serpico
Member
This gun is not for everyone. If you opt for an M8, the mag release is not an issue...then again, for CCW, many like the heel release as the M8 has more of a chance of being hit accidentally (although that has never hapened to me)...as for the decocker, there is none, this gun decocks when you release the grip...and the grip slide release is one of it's best features as it requires no external levers to hit...just load, squeeze and the gun is hot...for many, that is one of the gun's coolest features...
Autolycus
Member
Get the HK.
chris in va
Member
I had the opportunity to shoot a PSP at the range this year. Having never fired one before, the instant I pulled the trigger I *knew* it would be my next handgun purchase, even over a 1911.
SilentArmy
Member
P7!
The PSP were difficult to find for a while but I am seeing a large influx of Retired Euro-cop imports right now! They have the mag release in a rather "untactical"spot but training can solve that issue! I would go P7 over the Kahr as we know the reliablility of the HK while the Kahr needs about 20 more yrs to prove itself!
The PSP were difficult to find for a while but I am seeing a large influx of Retired Euro-cop imports right now! They have the mag release in a rather "untactical"spot but training can solve that issue! I would go P7 over the Kahr as we know the reliablility of the HK while the Kahr needs about 20 more yrs to prove itself!
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