Hk usp 40c
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Phaedrus/69
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Leadcouncil, you make a few points that are just silly. Glock has three safeties? Would they be better if you could shoehorn a few more in there? What does mag capacity and weight matter- are you buying buy the pound? If an HK was boat-anchor heavy like Colt Govt (no knock on that superb gun but it's heavy) I could see your point but neither are heavy.
I'm not here to beat the drum for one over another but the honest fact is that you're paying not only for HKs lack of volume vs Glock on civvy sales but their vastly more ambitious and expensive QC process. That costs a lot of money. It may not matter to you, and if it doesn't then buy a Glock. But it matters to me. HK doesn't buy a basket of MIM parts and springs from outside suppliers and slap a gun together; almost every part is made in house. The odd spring that they do buy is sourced with QC standards as high as the in-house parts. Most of the CQ measuring gear used by HK is also made in-house, something almost unheard of in the firearms industry. The level of training of their factory workers is intense, too. This isn't a revelation or deep secret- it's widely in the industry. As a result there are not a lot of problems with their guns. Are there some? Sure. Nothing made by man is foolproof (look at Morton-Theikal and their O-rings). But there aren't many. And I've never heard of a situation like with Para Ord where they flat out couldn't figure out how to fix the XD, or mass recalls like the Sheild, or bad firing pins like the Glock (or have they not officially admitted it yet?) or the issue with ejection that the G4 had. I've also never seen an HK bean anyone in the face with spent brass. I needed a pith helmet to shoot a Glock.
If you didn't like your HKs and decided to sell 'em for Glocks, God bless you- it's your money. If you'd rather spend your cash on a Glock that's awesome for you. What I don't get is why all the Glock fanboys act like someone just offered to rent their mom every time someone suggests they don't want a Glock. The OP flat out said he didn't want one, so why get your panties in a twist? It's no skin off your nose unless Glock is giving you a commission. And people managed to survive long before the Glock ever came along. Heck, rumor has it we got through a few wars with that clunky old steel Colt.
Even aside from the guns there's a lot of valid reasons to not buy one. Let's say a feller carried a Commander in Condition One for the last 30 years and has trained for thousands of hours that way. Should he toss all that muscle memory down the tubes because you think some cookie-cutter, one-size-fits-most gun should be in his holster? And it comes down to fit, too. Can you really not *** get *** that a Glock doesn't fit everyone's hand like a Becker BK2 doesn't fit everyone? Or a give golf club or style of shoe? There's a good reason there are hundreds of companies and thousands of models out there. Glocks just don't fit my hand well. Old Gaston fought tooth and nail against any customization, grudginly allowing interchangeable backstraps after awhile. But that isn't enough for everyone. Obviously HK doesn't make a gun that fits everyone, either. If your hands aren't pretty good sized don't waste your time trying a USP for example. However, with nine interchangeable panels I'd be shocked if a guy couldn't make the P30 fit right.
I don't think you're a bad guy, leadcounsel, and I don't mean to bust your balls. I guess it's the nature of a forum that things can come across as combative since we can't actually look each other in the eye and gauge tone. Really I don't even have a big issue with Glocks. Gandi said, "I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." Maybe that's my problem with Glocks. I find them so incredibly overrated. I've owned Glocks and fired dozens more and I don't think they run any better than any other brand I've tried. Only guns I've ever owned that have never had a malfunctions have been my HK USPs. Had plenty of 'em with Glocks but not any more than with Smith or Ruger. But to hear the internet legends they'll fire while encased within a block of concrete.
Oh, well. I guess you can pick this apart if you like. It doesn't much matter. The OP wants a USP and has flatly said they don't want a Glock. Hopefully you can still sleep at night knowing the poor guy is practically unarmed!
I'm not here to beat the drum for one over another but the honest fact is that you're paying not only for HKs lack of volume vs Glock on civvy sales but their vastly more ambitious and expensive QC process. That costs a lot of money. It may not matter to you, and if it doesn't then buy a Glock. But it matters to me. HK doesn't buy a basket of MIM parts and springs from outside suppliers and slap a gun together; almost every part is made in house. The odd spring that they do buy is sourced with QC standards as high as the in-house parts. Most of the CQ measuring gear used by HK is also made in-house, something almost unheard of in the firearms industry. The level of training of their factory workers is intense, too. This isn't a revelation or deep secret- it's widely in the industry. As a result there are not a lot of problems with their guns. Are there some? Sure. Nothing made by man is foolproof (look at Morton-Theikal and their O-rings). But there aren't many. And I've never heard of a situation like with Para Ord where they flat out couldn't figure out how to fix the XD, or mass recalls like the Sheild, or bad firing pins like the Glock (or have they not officially admitted it yet?) or the issue with ejection that the G4 had. I've also never seen an HK bean anyone in the face with spent brass. I needed a pith helmet to shoot a Glock.
If you didn't like your HKs and decided to sell 'em for Glocks, God bless you- it's your money. If you'd rather spend your cash on a Glock that's awesome for you. What I don't get is why all the Glock fanboys act like someone just offered to rent their mom every time someone suggests they don't want a Glock. The OP flat out said he didn't want one, so why get your panties in a twist? It's no skin off your nose unless Glock is giving you a commission. And people managed to survive long before the Glock ever came along. Heck, rumor has it we got through a few wars with that clunky old steel Colt.
Even aside from the guns there's a lot of valid reasons to not buy one. Let's say a feller carried a Commander in Condition One for the last 30 years and has trained for thousands of hours that way. Should he toss all that muscle memory down the tubes because you think some cookie-cutter, one-size-fits-most gun should be in his holster? And it comes down to fit, too. Can you really not *** get *** that a Glock doesn't fit everyone's hand like a Becker BK2 doesn't fit everyone? Or a give golf club or style of shoe? There's a good reason there are hundreds of companies and thousands of models out there. Glocks just don't fit my hand well. Old Gaston fought tooth and nail against any customization, grudginly allowing interchangeable backstraps after awhile. But that isn't enough for everyone. Obviously HK doesn't make a gun that fits everyone, either. If your hands aren't pretty good sized don't waste your time trying a USP for example. However, with nine interchangeable panels I'd be shocked if a guy couldn't make the P30 fit right.
I don't think you're a bad guy, leadcounsel, and I don't mean to bust your balls. I guess it's the nature of a forum that things can come across as combative since we can't actually look each other in the eye and gauge tone. Really I don't even have a big issue with Glocks. Gandi said, "I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." Maybe that's my problem with Glocks. I find them so incredibly overrated. I've owned Glocks and fired dozens more and I don't think they run any better than any other brand I've tried. Only guns I've ever owned that have never had a malfunctions have been my HK USPs. Had plenty of 'em with Glocks but not any more than with Smith or Ruger. But to hear the internet legends they'll fire while encased within a block of concrete.
Oh, well. I guess you can pick this apart if you like. It doesn't much matter. The OP wants a USP and has flatly said they don't want a Glock. Hopefully you can still sleep at night knowing the poor guy is practically unarmed!
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el Godfather
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Lead....., is this link a joke? If not, how many of your own guns you have done this sort of stupid torture with? Even though, these sort of internet posts lack credibility and reliability without documentation. Google for some usp reliability and internet will give you tons of such sites as well. Not original- especially when you are trying to present argument in favor of Glock on a department that you held constant.
I dont want to get in to Glock v USP argument because this thread was never about that. I specifically requested in OP to discuss usp 40c only.
I simply DO NOT care for Get Glock argument.
I dont want to get in to Glock v USP argument because this thread was never about that. I specifically requested in OP to discuss usp 40c only.
I simply DO NOT care for Get Glock argument.
leadcounsel
member
HK reliability and ruggedness. Which is what you originally requested.
http://www.guns.com/2012/08/11/death-of-hak-p2000-failure-broken-polymer-control/ Guy falls down and his HK P2000 breaks.
Another random inter-web picture...
USP seems pretty rugged...
http://www.guns.com/2012/08/11/death-of-hak-p2000-failure-broken-polymer-control/ Guy falls down and his HK P2000 breaks.
Another random inter-web picture...
USP seems pretty rugged...
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el Godfather
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I wanted to reply again to your silly irrelevant links that you keep posting to bash H&K and spam for Glock and other forums, but I think Phaedrus got all that covered.
BTW a word of caution: try NOT typing kaboom Glock in google- or your Glock fantasy will be over because what you will see on internet is so true!
BTW a word of caution: try NOT typing kaboom Glock in google- or your Glock fantasy will be over because what you will see on internet is so true!
45_auto
Member
LMAO! Somebody insulted H&K on a godfather thread! Can't have that!
Back on topic, doesn't the USPc .40 have all of the same compromises as the Glock 23 that you were complaining about on the Glock thread? Isn't the USPc the same size as a G23 and shoots the same .40 S&W cartridge?
Seems like a lot of compromises to me.
Back on topic, doesn't the USPc .40 have all of the same compromises as the Glock 23 that you were complaining about on the Glock thread? Isn't the USPc the same size as a G23 and shoots the same .40 S&W cartridge?
Seems like a lot of compromises to me.
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el Godfather
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Back to USP 40 Compact, please.
No hijacking of thread allowed.
Anyone with lot of range time on usp 40 please let us know how it works for you.
No hijacking of thread allowed.
Anyone with lot of range time on usp 40 please let us know how it works for you.
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el Godfather
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Not sure what you are getting at.LMAO! Somebody insulted H&K on a godfather thread! Can't have that!
Back on topic, doesn't the USPc .40 have all of the same compromises as the Glock 23 that you were complaining about on the Glock thread? Isn't the USPc the same size as a G23 and shoots the same .40 S&W cartridge?
Seems like a lot of compromises to me.
Please tell is about your USP 40 experience.
45_auto
Member
el godfather said:
Never had a USP 40, but I did have a USP 45 for about a month.
It was big, clunky, and top-heavy. Becoming proficient with the goofy mag-release takes a substantial amount of dedicated training that compromises your proficiency with everything else.
I gave it to my son, he traded it for a Glock 17.
leadcounsel
member
In all fairness to the HK, I do actually like two things.
1. Innovate ambi mag release. It's actually my favorite mag release of all pistols.
2. IF, and only IF, a gun has to have an external safety switch, I like the V1 safety and decocker concept. It should be improved so that you can't accidently go from cocked and locked to decock in one movement however. Good idea, bad application, so overall I'd give an A for innovation and a C for application, if the whole point is to be single action in a stress shoot, and then decock your pistol.
None of this is worth a 40% premium over competition, however.
1. Innovate ambi mag release. It's actually my favorite mag release of all pistols.
2. IF, and only IF, a gun has to have an external safety switch, I like the V1 safety and decocker concept. It should be improved so that you can't accidently go from cocked and locked to decock in one movement however. Good idea, bad application, so overall I'd give an A for innovation and a C for application, if the whole point is to be single action in a stress shoot, and then decock your pistol.
None of this is worth a 40% premium over competition, however.
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el Godfather
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H&K envy.
Move along boys.
Move along boys.
leadcounsel
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you missed the part where i said i had 4 and was not impressed. Sold them.
If you only want favorable opinions from hk fans then say so...
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el Godfather
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I guess you miss the point where I said I did not want to discuss Glock. I never asked for favorable experiences- did I?
You had four? Yea sure. Did not like them so you kept buying until you had four before you realized its not working for you.
Simple - experiences with H&K USP 40 Compact were requested without comparisons or get Glock sort of answers.
PS keep your answers relevant to subject. If you want to bicker we can do that in pvt and save the thread space.
You had four? Yea sure. Did not like them so you kept buying until you had four before you realized its not working for you.
Simple - experiences with H&K USP 40 Compact were requested without comparisons or get Glock sort of answers.
PS keep your answers relevant to subject. If you want to bicker we can do that in pvt and save the thread space.
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Blue Brick
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Glock vs H&K; Since reloading handbooks do not have a Glock or H&K “only” chapters, guess that makes Ruger and Thompson Center the strongest known firearms in the universe! 
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leadcounsel
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El Godfater said:
Sounds liked you're calling me a liar.
Sounds liked you're calling me a liar.
45_auto
Member
el godfather post #13 said:
When you post that you are considering Glocks, you'll find that people tend to give you their experiences with them.
funny thing is i've been carrying both a usp 45c and glock 23 the last couple months. I can comfortably appendix carry the usp while I have the glock in a crossbreed holster at like 5 o'clock. I've been carrying two guns because of a nightmare I had that my gun broke in a self defense situation. nobody can say a usp is a bad gun. guns are just a personal preference item. if you like the 40 cal the usp 40c should be great as it has the buffer on the rsa to reduce recoil. man I love hk's and glocks. im a gun whore though who doesn't discriminate
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Posted from Thehighroad.org App for Android
Trying to remain relevant to the thread:
So, I've had a strong desire to own a USP for years and finally purchased a USP 9 for myself and a USP 9 C for my wife. I still own them and in many regards they fulfilled many of my hopes and intentions:
Pros: They are incredibly well built. The fit and finish on them is seemingly perfect. Any detailed examination of each (and the three P7's that we own) show just great design work and machine work. And the absence of any anomalous behavior underscores it. They've operated perfectly; They also seem very well balanced, easy to sight and shoot and; the configurability (V1-V9) really helps. I'm left handed and so changing the safety/decocker to a left-hand model is outstanding.
Neutral: The USP is simply a bit large for my hands. Didn't think so when I first purchased it but its hard to get a good solid single-handed grip or the proper fit on the trigger. The USP C (my wife's) is perfect however;
Con: Ultimately, if I had to do it again, I wouldn't choose to buy the USP simply because of the SA/DA design. To me it seems like an outdated mode of shooting where the feel of the first shot is radically different and less controllable than the others. I have in fact converted my USP to light LEM and it helps a load, but at that point I would have been better off with another design. I DO like having the safety and so simply buying a Glock wouldn't do it either.
My take is that if the SA/DA works for you then cost notwithstanding, the USP is simply the best. The Sig is doubtlessly up there as well though for me, the absence of reconfiguring a Sig for left-hand use made it a non-starter.
GL with the purchase.
B
So, I've had a strong desire to own a USP for years and finally purchased a USP 9 for myself and a USP 9 C for my wife. I still own them and in many regards they fulfilled many of my hopes and intentions:
Pros: They are incredibly well built. The fit and finish on them is seemingly perfect. Any detailed examination of each (and the three P7's that we own) show just great design work and machine work. And the absence of any anomalous behavior underscores it. They've operated perfectly; They also seem very well balanced, easy to sight and shoot and; the configurability (V1-V9) really helps. I'm left handed and so changing the safety/decocker to a left-hand model is outstanding.
Neutral: The USP is simply a bit large for my hands. Didn't think so when I first purchased it but its hard to get a good solid single-handed grip or the proper fit on the trigger. The USP C (my wife's) is perfect however;
Con: Ultimately, if I had to do it again, I wouldn't choose to buy the USP simply because of the SA/DA design. To me it seems like an outdated mode of shooting where the feel of the first shot is radically different and less controllable than the others. I have in fact converted my USP to light LEM and it helps a load, but at that point I would have been better off with another design. I DO like having the safety and so simply buying a Glock wouldn't do it either.
My take is that if the SA/DA works for you then cost notwithstanding, the USP is simply the best. The Sig is doubtlessly up there as well though for me, the absence of reconfiguring a Sig for left-hand use made it a non-starter.
GL with the purchase.
B
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el Godfather
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^now thats a good relevant post.
What is the recoil difference between the full size and compact- if any?
What is the recoil difference between the full size and compact- if any?
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Negligible. Albeit for a 9mm but I assume it scales similarly for a 40S&W and a .45.
B
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el Godfather
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Not at all.
My apologies.
Comedian
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My USPc .40 has been my carry pistol for the last 6(ish) years. The firing pin broke during dry firing and needed to be replaced, which H&K did despite my not being covered by the warranty. Never had a failure of any sort in live fire.
Regarding complaints about holster availability: I've never had a problem finding gear for mine. Regarding the bit about going from Safe to Decock: I've never seen or experienced personally, even with untrained shooters. I can only speak for myself, but I float between a small and medium sized glove (depending on brand) and I don't have any trouble with the grip.
They're great handguns, despite being more expensive then the competition. That said, if I we're in the market for a handgun of this size and caliber, it'd be the HK P2000, P30S, or G23. Newer HK models are simply better and don't cost significantly more.
Regarding complaints about holster availability: I've never had a problem finding gear for mine. Regarding the bit about going from Safe to Decock: I've never seen or experienced personally, even with untrained shooters. I can only speak for myself, but I float between a small and medium sized glove (depending on brand) and I don't have any trouble with the grip.
They're great handguns, despite being more expensive then the competition. That said, if I we're in the market for a handgun of this size and caliber, it'd be the HK P2000, P30S, or G23. Newer HK models are simply better and don't cost significantly more.
wally
Member
Except I believe this "three way" cocked and locked SA or decocked DA -- up for safe down past off safe for decock, design first appeared on the Taurus PT92 before the days of polymer pistols.
I guess if you aren't comfortable with cocked and locked. After three DA/SA handguns I don't buy them anymore for this reason, but cocked and locked is my first choice if available. The LEM trigger is pretty nice and you can buy the parts to turn your variant 1 into the LEM if you don't want cocked and locked. Its one of the nice features of the design.
My experience is its the 1911 shooter used to keeping their thumb on the safety that have this issue -- I used to be one. The 1911 is still my favorite to shoot, but because I don't carry a 1911 I still have the habit of wiping off a safety on the draw even if its not there and broke my habit of riding the thumb safety when shooting.
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