HK VP9...Interesting...

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USAF does not have the money for a replacement pistol, nobody in the DOD has the money for a replacement. also, I have not heard word of a striker sig, got links?
 
Google "Sig P320". The VP9 looks to have a much lower bore bore axis height than the P320.
 
picture is the property of sig sauer
P320-FS-Nitrondetail-L.jpg
 
This things has the potential to be the best out of the box striker fired pistol. If it is as durable and reliable as a typical HK pistol (and I predict it will be) while offering a respectable trigger and comes in even in the mid $600 range it would be a no brainer vis-a-vis a glock or M&P (BTW I own 5 glocks).

I am happy with my glocks. However, I think it is safe to say that across the board the VP9 will likely be more reliable out of the box and more accurate than glocks (or M&Ps).


I'll include a post from Greg Bell a moderator at m4carbine.net (which has a good disussion on this gun going. I think he sums up nicely why this gun is exciting.

A few reasons to give this gun a look....

1. HK quality. If this gun is a POS, it will be a first from this company. H&K spent 4 years developing thing gun, I suspect it is pretty much done. I seriously doubt this gun will suffer from weird jams, BTF, busted strikers, etc. As Ken Hackathorn said, H&K is an engineering firm that makes firearms. Most gun companies are arms companies that hire an engineer or two.

3. HK reliability. H&K guns, say what you will, have always been industry leaders in raw reliability and durability.

2. Ergonomics. The H&K grip, long available in the P30, is either the best, or one of the best in the business.

3. Truly Ambidextrous. No swapping parts, learning exotic manipulations, etc, the gun is flat-out ambi.

4. Proven magazine. This magazine has been puttering around in one form or another since the mid 90s when the HK USP compact came out. True, that was a 13 rounder, but this is the same design. The 15 rounder has been around since 2006 and is readily available. Also, no worrying about whether this or that mag works in the gun. If H&K had bowed to pressure and swapped to a luger/colt mag button this mag continuity would have been lost (and you would have spent a lot of time waiting on H&K to make magazines).


5. Apparently the gun has an excellent trigger. Limited reports in the field seem to indicate this isn't hyperbole. The H&K plastic guns have long had a reputation for sub-par triggers. On the DA/SA this has never been an issue for me since I prefer C&L and H&K's have fine SA triggers (I always viewed DA as a restrike mode). The LEM was always weird but very usable. I have always thought the Glock trigger was EXTREMELY overrated and the PPQ has tempted me many times. In fact the recent STEYR trigger lured me into purchasing an example that I ended up dumping due to unreliability.

6. It appears that H&K has recontoured the grip to allow your hand to grip higher on the frame, basically the same idea as the beavertail mod on the 1911. This lowers the effective (DREADED) bore/axis.

7. Rational cost. This gun looks to cost around $125-150 more than a Glock/Walther and M&P. If H&K QC and design remain at historical levels, this is a fair premium. [I'll add that most M&Ps and glocks seem to need around that much in fixes for their issues. People often spend that adding sights, apex parts, etended controls etc, etc,

All in all it appears this gun combines the traditional engineering prowess of H&K with ergonomic and shoot ability concessions that have often eluded modern H&Ks. This appears to be the potential class leader.
Click to expand...

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?153299-HK-new-striker-fired-pistol-VP9!-Pics-inside!/page9

The PPQ is a great gun and arguably a better one than the M&P and Glock. However, I would suspect that the HK will be a better built gun. If the VP9 was nothing more than an HK built PPQ that would make it a winner and worth a reasonable premium in price to me.

I am pretty heavily invested in glocks in terms of magazines, holsters, mag pouches, tools etc. I also really like that I have very similar guns in size from the 26 up to duty size guns. In as much as my glocks have all proven reliable, not BTF issues, and acceptably accurate I don't feel a need to switch. One of the main reasons I haven't bought a PPQ. However, the specter of a $600ish striker fired HK (what appears to in essence be a striker fired P30) is still very exiting and a gun I would likely pick up. If they make a tactical version (without a crazy price increase) so I can attach my suppressor I almost certainly will get one.

I hope to see this offered in an "SK" sized gun in the future. Given the accuracy I'd expect out of this thing a VP9L (a la P30L) would be nice as well for an IDPA gun. I also hope that we see a striker version of the HK45.

In sum, if the trigger is even just decent this should be a winner and would seem to offer some meaningful advantage to all its competitors (glock, FNS, M&P Steyr M series, PPQ, etc.).
 
I'm sceptical of the trigger. If it proves to be a good one I might be interested.

Meanwhile, I'm looking forward to the new Sig.
 
Water-Man said:
I'm sceptical of the trigger. If it proves to be a good one I might be interested.

Meanwhile, I'm looking forward to the new Sig.
Click to expand...
According to the person that handled it and took the pictures...the trigger was nicer than on an FNS, but not as good as a PPQ.

I've handled the new Sig. It's trigger is much better than the 250, but no PPQ.
 
I not sure I agree with a lot of those points for this gun, or at least that those points are going to outperform the competition. I don't doubt this will sell well, though I'm guessing its going to be to the guys who continue to tell me the LEM is the greatest trigger ever used in a pistol.

I'm guessing part of my hesitation is that I've got working systems in both Glock and M&P with lots of mags for each. It would take a big gain from the pistol to swap out for a different system, with different controls, and have to buy more expensive mags all over again.
 
I'm guessing part of my hesitation is that I've got working systems in both Glock and M&P with lots of mags for each. It would take a big gain from the pistol to swap out for a different system, with different controls, and have to buy more expensive mags all over again.
Click to expand...

A lot of the hype/propulsion behind this gun seems to focus on Glock's recent troubles with spring rates and extractors. For me, personally, this point-of-view never really occurred to me, because I didn't just recently get into the shooting sports; all my Glocks are bit older and there are no BTF issues and no problems with dual-captive .40 cal springs b/c mine are all older Gen. 3 or Gen. 2 examples. It's really weird to see people completely cast aside a company (see M4Carbine.net link above) as if the only frame of reference is a brand new Glock. You'd kinda halfway expect that they've owned and shot Glocks for years; surely they haven't completely worn them out yet?!?

Mags are not a big issue for me. The P30 mags run $35-$40 bucks and nowadays Glock mags aren't a dirt cheap anymore either.

I hate to cross-post stuff, but in this case some of my comments on arf.com apply to the direction of this discussion as well...

"At the end of the day, I would have liked to see this gun adopt more of the concepts we saw in the Caracal, such as a low-mass, low profile slide and an even lower bore axis. I would have also liked a shorter grip. I completely understand that H&K is heavily invested in the P30 design and that polymer molds cost a *bleep*-ton of cashola, not to mention the R&D and T&E costs of a completely new design.

I'm far from an HK hater, but in all honesty my ugly, soul-less, odd-angled, pre-BTF Glocks work just fine. They are extremely efficient in terms of size, capacity and weight. They can be detail stripped with a door nail in 60 seconds. Parts are cheap as *edited* and they're everywhere. There are lots of guns out there that have more soul and class than the run of the mill plastic guns. I just wish this one was a real-deal G19 killer. From the looks of things, it isn't."
 
"About the only similarities between this and a Glock is that they're both striker-fired polymer pistols. And H&K actually beat Glock to that idea by 9 years with the VP70."

H&K beat Glock to the polymer pistol by 12 years. The VP70 arrived in 1970--hence the model designation VP70.

Dan
 
tahunua001 said:
USAF does not have the money for a replacement pistol, nobody in the DOD has the money for a replacement. also, I have not heard word of a striker sig, got links?
Click to expand...
The USAF has the money, but they would rather spend it on a ONE plane they do not need. Just ONE F35 costs what it would take to buy all new hand guns... and the F35 is not needed... more A10's would be a better investment.
 
yes because a single F35 costs 50 million dollars. but you know what? a single F35 would likely kill more enemy combatants than the 100,000 handguns that same amount of money would buy.
 
Not to go completely off subject but the F35 is a huge failure in every measurable way. We let the IT department build a fighter and it didn't turn out so hot.

On topic, the BTF issue seems rather odd to me. Its amazing how many BTF issues go away when you firmly lock your off hand wrist. The term "limp wristing" makes every guy both defensive and unwilling to consider they may be doing it. I can cause a BTF to happen and it goes right along with how much you let the muzzle rise. For me, it's directly linked to limp wristing the pistol. Now other makes that are limp wristed don't cause as much of an issue with the brass, but it certainly seems hold related. All of the videos I've seen where brass came back to the face also exhibited a large amount of vertical rise in the muzzle when fired.
 
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After seeing the image on post #30, I'm feeling even better than I already did about the look of my P-09. hehehe

I'd rather have my P-09 over the new HK. YMMV
 
Looks good to me. IF they can get the price in the lower $600 it will be a good seller.

Almost all of these are Glock clones. Shape, internal parts, pull the slide off, looks just like my Glock 19. That's why I haven't bought another poly gun...they all seem the same.
Click to expand...

Glock fanboy much?

Nothing wrong with duplicating a working design. The wheel has always been round...
Unless there's a patent by Glock, I don't see an issue.
 
Hm, looking at the specs it seems a bit large for just 15 rounds in the standard (probably $60) mags.

Probably not for me.

If I'm going full size 9mm, I need at least 17 in the mag. Just my opinion, bet it'll be great for many though.
 
After seeing the image on post #30, I'm feeling even better than I already did about the look of my P-09. hehehe

I'd rather have my P-09 over the new HK. YMMV
Click to expand...

Just tp be clear, the image in post #30 is NOT the HK VP9; the image in that post is of the new SIG 320. Different company entirely. That particular SIG looks to take design cues from the Beretta Storm pistols. If nothing else, it is another example of lack of originality these days amongst manufacturers. :|
 
Ah, . . . . the Sig 320. I see that now. Personally, [now that I am caught up on everything], the HK looks a lot better than the Sig. Also, in my opinion, there is very little reason to have that high of a bore axis with a striker fire setup. My P-09 is a hammer, yet seems to have a lower bore axis. I can't tell by pics alone, but that's how I see it.

I'm still interested to see the new HK when it comes out.
 
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