HK VP9...Interesting...

[boricua9mm]

How do you mean? Besides polymer use, I see very little similarity.

Look at the slong, sloping slide cut that angles inward. This particular design element is a pretty blatant rip-off of the Beretta Storm slide treatment.

I guess it must be getting hard to get a design that looks original these days. Designing both steel and polymer is a true art form. It is obvious that Europe has seen a lot of intellectual promiscuity in this regard.

 

[rs7]

Ladies, please simmer down. It's a Glock.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

Well, I do certainly see the similar cut on the slide that you are talking about, but it seems a minor similarity to me considering the two guns operate totally differently. I would guess, that if Sig did in fact look at the cut on the slide of the PX4, that they probably evaluated what it was for. It's a way to shave off some metal where it may not be needed, and thereby save some money on materials. It also shaves some weight off of what is meant to be a carry or duty gun.

Well anyway, thanks for explaining what you meant.

Ladies, please simmer down. It's a Glock.

^^^^ Useless comment, and inflamatory for no reason........ To say it is a GLOCK, is like saying a Ruger GP100 is a S&W 686, so simmer down. To assume the same build quality will come from two different manufacturers is folly. I'm not saying one is better than another, just that you can't assume they will be the same, or even that minor design differences that you may not see in the picture may not make a difference in durability, reliablity, and shootability.

Also, the HK uses a paddle type mag release, which is highly useful for someone like me who has large hands, has issues with having two much finger on the trigger as a result, and also as a result has issues with the tip of their trigger finger getting beat up by a normal push button mag release when firing. I got rid of an FNP45 for just that reason and switched to an HK45, which solved the issue. In addition, the ergos of GLOCKS are what turns a lot of shooters off to the brand. The HK ergos are widely liked by many shooters, so while I'm not saying it is better than a GLOCK, it does offer a different option, and one that is more customizable.

So the bottom line sir, is that the VP9 is most certainly not a GLOCK. It certainly shares many design elements as a GLOCK, but it is not a GLOCK.

 

[boricua9mm]

Well, I do certainly see the similar cut on the slide that you are talking about, but it seems a minor similarity to me considering the two guns operate totally differently. I would guess, that if Sig did in fact look at the cut on the slide of the PX4, that they probably evaluated what it was for. It's a way to shave off some metal where it may not be needed, and thereby save some money on materials. It also shaves some weight off of what is meant to be a carry or duty gun.

Well anyway, thanks for explaining what you meant.

Don't get me wrong, I kind of like that slide cut, although its now lost its uniqueness. I think one benefit in terms of manufacturing would be that the angled flats can be milled in a single operation, rather than having an approach that requires multiple milling operations, which takes longer and increases the costs of production. I'd say if SIG is doing this with the slide, then Beretta did not protect that design element through the USPTO. In that case, it's a free-for-all.

In the world of photography, it is said that by 1870 everything had already been done in terms of creativity. Maybe we're there with firearms design aesthetics!?!

 

[rs7]

If you can't come up with something new, inovative, functional, reliable, cutting edge, then wait for the company that does has its patents run out. Then make your own slightly different version. S&W had their butts handed to them with the Sigma. The H&K is really nothing but a Glock. It's a Glock. Oh, by the way, I thought you were a lady. My mistake.

 

[Girodin]

It's a glock? Really? I'd wager it will not be plagued with any of the recent problems glocks have been showing. It has what many find to be a more ergonomic grip (based on similarity to the P30), and it will almost assuredly be more accurate than a glock (unless ones spends hundreds of dollars to get a match barrel fitted to the glock. Also it won come with horridly designed garbage plastic filler sights that require dropping a significant amount of money to buy right off the bat.

Again I own a bunch of glocks. I really like them. However to not see what a $600 Hk is likely to offer over a newly purchased glock is naive. Again, I'm not saying someone with a glock that's dialed in absolutely should switch but for a new purchaser or one experiencing the known ailments of other strike fired poly guns the vp is definitely worth a hard look. This is a gun that its understandable to have high hopes for and be excited about.

Hm, looking at the specs it seems a bit large for just 15 rounds in the standard (probably $60) mags.

It uses already existing p30 mags. They admittedly are not the cheapest in the world but the are not $60 if one knows how to shop. They are also a proven mag design. One of the main culprits in auto pistol reliability issues is bad mags. Thus it's nice to know this gun uses a quality mag (as one would expect from HK).

 

[Sergei Mosin]

I'm interested. I like the ergonomics of the P30, even the...unusual...decocker and magazine release, but the DA/SA trigger leaves much to be desired. (I haven't found a LEM to try.) I've also been giving some thought to getting a striker-fired pistol, just for something different, but haven't settled on one yet. I might just wait until the VP9 hits the shelves and give it a chance.

 

[rs7]

Does anybody have one of these? Someone? Anybody? No? Why?

 

[tarosean]

Does anybody have one of these? Someone? Anybody? No? Why?

They are not even shipping till later this summer.

 

[tarosean]

So the bottom line sir, is that the VP9 is most certainly not a GLOCK. It certainly shares many design elements as a GLOCK, but it is not a GLOCK.

Actually it should be argued that glock is the one who shares design elements with the originator of poly pistols. How the heck can this be a copy when H&K started the entire class of weapons?

 

[Zaydok Allen]

How the heck can this be a copy when H&K started the entire class of weapons?

Exactamundo!

Does anybody have one of these? Someone? Anybody? No? Why?

They aren't even shipping yet.

 

[Turkina]

If you can't come up with something new, inovative, functional, reliable, cutting edge, then wait for the company that does has its patents run out. Then make your own slightly different version. S&W had their butts handed to them with the Sigma. The H&K is really nothing but a Glock. It's a Glock. Oh, by the way, I thought you were a lady. My mistake.

You forget that HK made the first polymer pistol years before Glock. You also forget HK made striker fired pistols before Glock.

You saying this is a copy of a Glock really means you do not have a clue what you are talking about.

 

[jjones45]

You guys make a good point about hk being the first to introduce striker fired handguns, however the vp70 internals are totally different than modern striker fired guns. If you look inside a fns, xd(m), m&p, caracal, steyr, sr, p320, ppq, and now the vp9 they all look very glock like. None look like the inside of the vp70. While the glock striker system is not the first it's obviously the most effective or every one else would not have copied that design with little difference. With that said I think almost every gun maker is out glocking the glock, especially the ppq. If you can't look inside the inside of these modern striker fired guns and see they are glock inspired then you are in denial. I don't see the big deal though. What better design to improve on than the highly trusted and successful glock. Hardly anything is original anymore but that's not a bad thing as good things keep getting better. If this vp9 lives up to the hype that's building up around it this will be one heck of a pistol and I might look up down the road and have one in 9, 40, and 45. If hk can eventually get this gun under $600 this should be a great success. You have to give credit where credit is due. Hk brought strikers to the table and glock forever changed the game in semi auto pistols or every gun company would not make these weapons

 

[george burns]

If you get a p30 the LEM trigger is much better than anything else. Otherwise it'd not s big deal, at least to me. I tried the lem light and it made all the difference.

 

[sigarms228]

I am glad HK is coming out with the VP9 and it looks very tempting. With this and the new SIG P320 there are a LOT of great choices for the potential buyer.

However I already have a DA/SA P30LS and just adore it. The size of the P30LS is just perfect for my purposes. I also find the SA trigger to be sweet and DA to be fine.

I also own a Walther PPQ that I also adore. Can't wait to try out the VP9 and the SIG P320.

 

[rs7]

First? Lugers are striker fired. When did those come out? Hmmm? The H&K VP70 was a dismal failure. P7's hit the mark, but at too high a price point.

 

[JR24]

Didn't JMB have a striker fired design sometime in like the early 1900's?

Well, here's one http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FN_Model_1910

But I thought there was a different one, perhaps I am misremembering.

But seriously, all guns copy other guns, and most copied JMB. Its fine, everyone gets what they like these days, and that's a great thing!

 

[jjones45]

First? Lugers are striker fired. When did those come out? Hmmm? The H&K VP70 was a dismal failure. P7's hit the mark, but at too high a price point.

Yeah you might be right with that as I'm not really familiar with the Lugers firing mechanism, but hk had the first polymer striker fired pistol for sure. Sorry for not wording that properly. And by the way Lugers don't look like glocks on the inside either. Almost every striker fired gun from the late 90's till now look like glocks under the hood. Why can't people just accept that?

 

[tarosean]

Almost every striker fired gun from the late 90's till now look like glocks under the hood. Why can't people just accept that?

Why because they use a trigger bar??? Which has also been in use for 100yrs or so.

 

[HexHead]

JMB's design for the HiPower was striker fired. It was changed to hammer fired after his death. Pretty much the only thing from his that carried over to the P35 was the magazine.

 

[boricua9mm]

The guts of a Glock, M&P, XD, P99, PPQ, Caracal, Steyr M, etc. are all quite different. Some are much simpler and easily accessible than others.

To say they're all the same is like saying that S&W, Ruger and Colt revolvers are all the same; obviously that isn't true even in the slightest sense.

 

[jjones45]

I stated they all look glock like with small differences. They are not gonna be totally the same or glock would sue like they did s&w for the sigma. Hey if you guys don't want to see these modern strikers are glock inspired then that's fine. These glock killers have been made to compete against glocks without a doubt. I think now everyone is trying to beat the ppq's trigger, which won't be easy. Sometimes people hate something so much they don't want to give them credit where it's do. Yes others inspired gaston glock to design his g17 but how many did he inspire? Let's be real here fellas

 

[boricua9mm]

If we look "under the hood" of poly striker guns from different companies, we see that some are true DAO (Kahr), others are partially cocked (Glock) and some are fully cocked SA (XD, PPQ, and P99 when in AS mode). By the very nature of what must be done to the striker in order for the gun to fire, the internals of the frame are correspondingly different.

There's a difference between something being inspired by something else and it being the same thing as that source of inspiration. If anything, yes, Glock inspired the market to produce lightweight guns with full-capacity and a constant trigger pull with a decent-to-good pull weight. Obviously, how they achieve these items of interest are all different in their own way.

 

[jjones45]

Ok here is my g23 and m&p 9, both very similar in design but not exactly the same. Like I said before, glock inspired with minor changes and enhancements. We understand fully cocked, partially cocked or dao but that does not change the fact that these guns look glockish on the inside. Yes there are some differences that had to be made for patent infringements and improvements. I am not a glock fanboy as I like all my other strikers more than my g23, I'm just stating my opinion. You guys may disagree and that's fine. I just see the similarities whenever I break down my glock, ppq, m&p, and ruger SR. And yes there are differences, but way more similarities. I'm %100 sure I will like the vp9 more than my glock as well.

 

[boricua9mm]

I dunno man; I have a different perspective. Each of these things is not like the other...



Not trying to get an eternal argument going, but "It's a Glock" is a head-scratcher for a lot of us.