Home defense carbine: AR, AK, or M1 Carbine?

Home defense carbine: AR, AK or M1 Carbine

  • AR 15 in carbine configuration

    Votes: 88 37.4%

  • AK 47

    Votes: 42 17.9%

  • M1 Carbine, full wood stock

    Votes: 66 28.1%

  • He would be better served with NO carbine

    Votes: 39 16.6%
  • Total voters
    235
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Hornady TAP is great. I challenge you to find any right now.

The revolution of so many people buying ARs lately is great. The more they are in 'common use' the more difficult it is to ban them. They are fun to shoot, and all-around great rifles for everyone. The bad news is, if someone buys one, and knows absolutely nothing about how it works or how to employ it, and loads up their HD magazines with the cheapest bulk M855 they could get their hands on, they are going to shred the neighborhood. Pretty much the same with an AK/SKS.

My primary is an 870 loaded with #4 buck. My backup (and my wife's primary) is an M-1 carbine. I think in many ways, the M-1 is ideal for HD, but the one I have is an heirloom, it was my grandfather's. I don't know if I would ever have gotten around to buying one otherwise.

He should keep the Glock, but if it was me, it would be strictly as backup, and he needs to get some training about transitioning between weapons.
 
FOR HOME DEFENSE,
You need to consider OVER PENETRATION of the target.

YOU ARE LEGALLY (and Morally) RESPONSIBLE for that round from the time it leaves the muzzle until it reaches it's final resting place!
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You go throwing around .30 Caliber, or even 9MM rounds, and you will QUICKLY find them stuck in the neighbors house!

The .223 with fairly light weight bullets makes for a VERY EFFECTIVE stopping weapon, but the rounds will break up on contact with hard walls.

I've seen .223 rounds disintegrate when they impact 1/2" dry wall, and not penetrate into the next room.

If you are an IDIOT that wants deer slugs, full size .30 cal rounds, or something equally hard to stop, then be my guest...

But educated people will consider their neighbors, their kids/family members in other rooms, and the potential for heavy bullets or high velocity medium size rounds to over penetrate....

There is a REASON police and military are going to FRANGABLE rounds, and many police departments are going to high mass loads of SMALLER buck shot,
And OVER PENETRATION is that reason!

If you pay attention, you will see more AR-15/M-16 rifles showing up in 'SWAT' situations than the 9mm MP5 Sub guns.
Again, the reason is over penetration.

And the departments that are keeping the MP5 guns are making the switch to frangible rounds....

The newer frangible rounds can detect the density in human bone to drywall or wood studs,
And the new AR (.223 Rem) rounds can blow a HUGE hole in a rump roast, but not punch a hole in the cardboard target a foot behind it.

If you are going to try to use a .30 Cal round for 'Home Defense', (M-1, AK, ect.)
PLEASE build a bunker with concrete walls so when you and 'Dale Gribble' get your kicks we don't catch the 'excrement' from your foolishness!
 
Guitargod did you even read post number 13 before you quoted me?

But what I really can't believe is that we are recommending for someone to usa a rifle for HD in the suburbs can you imagine how that will look to the DA? Not to mention the tactics required for rifle use in CQB. Along with the mere speed of the bullet I don't care what the ammo company says I am not willing to risk an innocent life on the fact that my 223 round traveling upwards to 3000 fps is supposed to disintegrate in 1/2 inch drywall.
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Granted, ussing a carbine (especially an "EBR") for HD is not for everyone. With the close quarters of most houses and apartments, weapon retention and maneuvering effectively are valid concerns, and this is the primary reason I do not use a carbine for HD.

A district attorney or prosecutor making a big deal of the weapon used is also a great concern for some, but there seem to be two opposing schools of thought on the matter. I suppose it varies a great deal depending on where one lives, but IMHO if it's a justifiable shoot (pretty hard for it not to be in FL if someone forcibly enters your home BTW), then the weapon I chose to use to defend my life is of little consequence.

Different strokes for different folks, I suppose. The important thing is that you do what works best for you in defense of yourself and your loved ones. If a handgun is the most effective tool for you, then by all means use it. If it's a shotgun or rifle, so be it. Even with the least penetrating round effective for self defense, you'll still get some degree of penetration through drywall should you happen to miss. The bottom line is to hit your target, no matter what you use.

As for the fragmentation of the .223 loads, it's not a marketing scheme by the ammo companies - it's a well-documented fact. But I was just playing Devil's Advocate anyway. Guess what sits on my night stand?

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But that's just in case I don't have time to grab this:

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:neener:

I don't know why, though. After all, it's common knowledge around here that a pistol grip shotty serves no purpose whatsoever. :rolleyes:
 

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If using an AR-15 get frangible rounds, I dont know how far they will penetrate.
Theres a video with average FMJ rounds going through 12 plus layers of plywood. Im sure drywall, plywood, paint, a few inches of insulation, and siding wont come close to stopping a .223 or 5.56mm.
 
But I was just playing Devil's Advocate anyway. Guess what sits on my night stand?
Click to expand...
LOL btw when my wife is out of town the ol M4 leans against the night stand. My CCW instructor always said "your handgun is to fight your way to your rifle". But not knowing someone else's CQB abilities with a carbine I stand by my prior posts.
 
LOL btw when my wife is out of town the ol M4 leans against the night stand. My CCW instructor always said "your handgun is to fight your way to your rifle". But not knowing someone else's CQB abilities with a carbine I stand by my prior posts.
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M4, eh? Very nice. I have a tacticool carbine as well - er... used to, before the terribly misfortunate boating incident last month. But I'd never use it for HD. There's no way some schmuck Police Chief is going to let my baby rust away in some evidence room for God only knows how long.
 
Seems funny to have a long gun backup a hand gun. The long gun should be the primary weapon, the handgun is subordinate.
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I agree, the handgun is a last ditch "marginal at best" weapon. When the shotgun is empty and the rifle has jammed pick up the pistol. Of course if that really happened it's just not your day. Of course, as real mags sugested, time not permitting the pistol is the easiest to grab to "fight your way to your rifle [or shotgun]".
 
well out of the guns HE HAS!! id say just stick to the 45 handgun if your concerned about the wall issue?might not be the best option but where does it say to tell him a shotty would be better all i read was ar ak and m1!? but id say AR if your outdoors and know where your shootin
 
I own all three...AK, AR, and a CMP Inland M1 carbine. The M1 is my HD longarm. I prefer it to the shotgun, as well. Loaded with the proper SP ammo, with a 15rd mag in place and two more in the stock pouch, I have a very lightweight, short, weapon.
The M1 carbine has a long history of use by police that continues to this day.
Most likely, my Beretta 92FS with 15rds of 127gn +P+ is what will be at hand, though.
And yes, I live in the suburbs.
 
might not be the best option but where does it say to tell him a shotty would be better all i read was ar ak and m1!?
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Well since this is a forum (defined as: a public meeting or assembly for open discussion), we are also entitled to our opinions...and this being matheath's thread he is entitled to choose to disregard what he deems inappropriate, wrong, untenable, or simply undesirable.
 
matheath:
Aside from the type of gun, my only question is whether he, or anyone else, will be able to quickly distinguish from a burglar or a young(or problem) family member in the dark or very dim indirect light from a distant weak lamp.

Those who come home very late from partying, or arrive a night early from school or a trip often sneak in with the lights off.
This last scenario has proven fatal. Is this often discussed on gun boards, or does everyone have a large bedside switch which brightly illuminates hallways and other rooms at the same time?

IFF: Identification, Friend or Foe. Not just for crossing airborne boundaries.
 
"Important safety tip"

When making this decision, make sure you understand what its like to touch off a .223 or X39 inside a structure.

:what:
 
I voted for the M-1 Carbine.

I live in the 'burbs and with today's ammo for it, it makes a great HD gun. With both 15 and 30 round mags available and quality ammo you really can't argue with it. It's short, can be used with one hand if needed, and at "inside my house" ranges you'll have more than enough stopping power.

Ultimak makes a rail system for it so if you need lights, optical sights, etc., you can now use them just as easily as you can on an AR.


Kris
 
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I find these comments about handguns are suboptimal comments fairly comical. We are talking about suburban America, not Fallujah, aren't we?? How many of you REALLY know how to handle a carbine/rifle in CQB?? How many rounds do you need to stop a BG (or two, or three?).

I have my XD-9 compact with 15 rounds and spare mag with 10 in the safe attached to my night stand. I do have AK's AR's Shotty etc., but practically speaking, I cannot have them leaning against the night stand since I have kids.

IMO, it's easier to maneuver through rooms and clear them with handguns. I have taken a structure clearing class as well as primary/secondary transitioning class, but I just can't see myself with my AR and my backup handgun in a holster clearing my house in the middle of the night. Besides, I usually sleep naked and won't be putting on my pants/holster to have a secondary weapon. You say well, special forces have carbine/rifles....well guess what, they have multiple BG's with bulletproof vests. I don't expect to encounter that situation in hood and being tacticool ain't exactly practical.

To the OP, I would say whichever weapon he feels most comfortable with. Unless he is very adept at CQB carbine tactics, I would just stick with his 45 with extra mag than carrying around extra weight and noise.
 
Hi RockyMtnTactical,

I really wasn’t referring to one’s recall of an incident.

My mention was geared more towards the operator retaining enough
of his or her basic senses in order to complete their “mission”.

-thanks
 
How many of you REALLY know how to handle a carbine/rifle in CQB??
Click to expand...

I do.... but then again I earned my screen name.

I voted the AR because it offers good stopping power, low recoil, low overpenetration (using right ammo) and more precise aiming than with a pistol.

I keep my Glock 22 on my nightstand, a Ruger SP101 on the wifes and then either my Colt 6950 or Remington 870 nearby.
 
RockyMtn...... Ill tell you what brother. I have cleared dozens of structures with my Glock in the last 2 years as a LEO. I still dont like doing it with a pistol. Such a little gun.
 
The AR-15 is your best bet as a home defense carbine, given that he ALREADY HAS ONE.

.223 rounds have low mass, and high velocity. When they impact ANYTHING that's solid at that velocity, the force of the impact tends to shatter the round. Especially if you use commercial hollow points.

And given the fact that HE ALREADY HAS ONE, there's no reason he shouldn't use it.
 
I love the box of truth. Amazing amount of good stuff on there. A few things I learned of value:

1) unless you live in a brick or stone house, anything you'd want to use for SD will penetrateenought walls to exit the house.

2) While 5.56 seems to break up when it hits people or gelatin, against wallboard it tumbles but keeps on trucking through several walls.

3) 45-70 is the round to use if you want to shoot a bad guy holed up in an interior room of a house, while you shoot through another house you're using for cover.
 
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