Home defense carbine: M1 carbine or 45 cal?

[Nighteyes]

A HI point may be fine for the range, but I would never use one for self defense.

May I suggest one of the entry level AR15s from S&W? Their sport version isn't that expensive, and would make a great home defense carbine.

In a typical neighborhood setting, the chief problem with an AR-15 is excessive penetration. It would be far too easy for a fired round to penetrate multiple wood or sheet-rock walls and injure or kill a neighbor.

That is also true of handguns and pistol-caliber rifles, but not nearly so much as with an AR-15.

 

[USAF_Vet]

In a typical neighborhood setting, the chief problem with an AR-15 is excessive penetration. It would be far too easy for a fired round to penetrate multiple wood or sheet-rock walls and injure or kill a neighbor.

That is also true of handguns and pistol-caliber rifles, but not nearly so much as with an AR-15.

Really? Because virtually EVERY ballistics test on .223/5.56 hollow and soft point proves otherwise. A 9mm from a 5.5" pistol has more penetration than a .223 AR. Sooooo..... where exactly are you getting your info?

 

[Nighteyes]

Not picking on the .223/5.56. I should have said "... or any center-fire rifle round." By that I mean bottle-necked cartridges intended for use in rifles.

My "excessive penetration" statement comes from direct, personal observation and experience at two of the shooting ranges I frequent. Both host competitive matches several times a month (cowboy, X-3 Multi-Gun, Action Pistol, etc.) and both use angled steel plate targets. Factory-loaded handgun rounds -- 9mm, .45acp, .40S&W, .38 spl, etc., will not penetrate the plates, though the repetitive impacts will eventually "dish" them. The plates have to be dismounted and reversed from time to time.

Now, center-fire rifle rounds, including .223/5.56 NATO, will go right through these same steel plates. One way to get one's range memberships instantly, and simultaneously, revoked is to be observed pointing a loaded rifle of the above kind at one of their steel targets. Now, should you actually fire said rifle at said target...

 

[knuck]

Here is my take on the situation. .45 colt lever action is a big hammer with quick action and natural pull. It is great for close combat or longer range open sights are good for defencive distance out to 50 yards or more if you practice. But still great at room range as well not to mention it holds 10 rounds or so.

 

[hatt]

Not picking on the .223/5.56. I should have said "... or any center-fire rifle round." By that I mean bottle-necked cartridges intended for use in rifles.

My "excessive penetration" statement comes from direct, personal observation and experience at two of the shooting ranges I frequent. Both host competitive matches several times a month (cowboy, X-3 Multi-Gun, Action Pistol, etc.) and both use angled steel plate targets. Factory-loaded handgun rounds -- 9mm, .45acp, .40S&W, .38 spl, etc., will not penetrate the plates, though the repetitive impacts will eventually "dish" them. The plates have to be dismounted and reversed from time to time.

Now, center-fire rifle rounds, including .223/5.56 NATO, will go right through these same steel plates. One way to get one's range memberships instantly, and simultaneously, revoked is to be observed pointing a loaded rifle of the above kind at one of their steel targets. Now, should you actually fire said rifle at said target...

Penetrating a steel plate and penetrating walls are two different things. .223 loses energy quickly once it hits something.

 

[ugaarguy]

Nighteyes, steel plates are far different than soft mediums. JSP and ballistic tip are also far different than FMJ. There are multiple threads here discussing the topic, including a few in the stickies. .223/5.56 JSP and ballistic tip have far lower penetration in soft mediums like drywall than do JHP pistol bullets. Please avail yourself of this information.

 

[B!ngo]

I am astonished to see how many entries there are in this thread of people fretting over the notion of losing their valuable firearm to an evidence locker. If this has occurred, it is likely that the firearm has done its job in being the proper tool to help to defend it's bearer and perhaps their wife, children and all of their belongings as intended. After all, if it and it's bearer has failed, he or she might not be alive to fret. Surely the value of any firearm cannot be compared to the value of what it is being used to protect. To each his (or her) own of course. I guess that explains why Hi-Point remains a growing business.
But regardless, though I chose the .45 carbine (thinking 'c' was a bit of a copout answer) it seems to me that, from everything I've read, the most effective HD firearm is a reasonably short barreled 12 gauge. It's likely dark, the adrenaline is pumping and so having a few extra degrees of freedom would be welcomed. In addition, a hit with a 12 gauge leaves little doubt but that the fighting will end that instant.
An M1 carbine is a beauty though. And I am a fan of PCC's, owning one in fact. But for HD it sure seems like there is a better answer.
B

 

[C-grunt]

I'd choose the M1 Carbine with a good soft point or hollow point. From what I've seen you start to get into "rifle ballistics" with a deforming 30 carbine round.

The 45 carbine is going to act just like a 45 out of a pistol. Having worked as a LEO for a while now handguns don't impress me much. They do work, but no where even remotely close as well as people believe they do.

 

[ugaarguy]

I am astonished to see how many entries there are in this thread of people fretting over the notion of losing their valuable firearm to an evidence locker. If this has occurred, it is likely that the firearm has done its job in being the proper tool to help to defend it's bearer and perhaps their wife, children and all of their belongings as intended. After all, if it and it's bearer has failed, he or she might not be alive to fret. Surely the value of any firearm cannot be compared to the value of what it is being used to protect.

If the OP was something like "I have an M1 Carbine, and I can't afford another gun. Should I use the M1 Carbine or trade it for something else?" the answers given here would likely be far different. However, the OP implies that he has the money to buy a new Hi Point 45 Carbine. So, if one can afford another gun that's at least as effective as the M1 Carbine and cost about the same as the Hi Point Carbine (like an SKS or an entry level 12 gauge pump shotgun), why risk the potential loss of the M1 Carbine with its greater monetary and sentimental value?

 

[M1key]

I voted option 3

If you already have an M1 and it runs reliably with HP or SP ammo then by all means use it. I have owned a number of them in my day and believe me NOT ALL of them are reliable. Visit the CMP forums and you will see plenty of them that are not...

M

 

[mookiie]

I would say you could certainly use a M1 Carbine for home defense, however those rounds have some punch. This means they are more likely to over penetrate. With the 45 you could use hollow points and still have plenty of stopping power without posing a risk to who you are trying to protect.

 

[MistWolf]

When talking about HD, you're usually talking about drywall. Test show that drywall tends to plug the hollow points of pistol bullets so they don't expand well. Being short & squat, pistol bullets tend to keep straight and will plow through several layers of drywall. 5.56, on the other hand, tends to turn sideways after penetrating through the first layer and hit the second layer sideways. The bleed off a lot of energy this way and generally only penetrate two or three layers of drywall even if the bullet is FMJ

 

[Dr.Rob]

I chose the 30 carbine because I never met a 45 cal rifle I liked.

The carbine is LIGHT like a 22, packs a whallop with a soft point and even the GI 15 round mag is a lot of capacity.

Again, ONLY as one or the other, that's what I'd pick.

 

[hatt]

I would say you could certainly use a M1 Carbine for home defense, however those rounds have some punch. This means they are more likely to over penetrate. With the 45 you could use hollow points and still have plenty of stopping power without posing a risk to who you are trying to protect.

.45 is heavy and slow. Heavy and slow tends to penetrate more than light and fast. Would have to see tests of good defensive .45 vs good .30 to know anything for sure but I imagine they're somewhat similar. Anything that will stop an attacker will likely penetrate a sheetrock wall or 2 so there's always going to be risks.

 

[Rule3]

My choice is (D) either one.

But they are in the safe along with the shotguns

I see no reason for a rifle in the house. My 45 handgun with 13 rounds is just fine by me.

 

[GBExpat]

You already have the M1 Carbine ... just use soft point ammunition.

The M1 Carbine round sure did a number on Bugsy Siegal.

 

[ugaarguy]

I see no reason for a rifle in the house. My 45 handgun with 13 rounds is just fine by me.

You may want to rethink that. Handguns are poor performers compared to long guns when it comes to stopping a fight. The chief advantage of a handgun is portability, but that shouldn't be a concern in the home. You may also want to search the numerous threads discussing how intermediate rifle cartridges pose less risk of over penetration than do handgun cartridges.

 

[WVsig]

The humble shotgun is the better home defense option.

Quoted for truth!

Cheaper too.

 

[Ash]

I have a Quality Hardware 30 Carbine for the house or farm, but can also use a Ruger Mini 14GB as well as a Savage 720 shotgun. Plenty of options should I want them.

 

[MattShlock]

Two BIG Pistols

I've always said...

...the .30 Carbine is a really, really, good pistol!