Home Defense Dilemma - Advice Welcomed

[Holy_Man_Of_The_Lord]

Hello all, I am a long time reader and a past member who lost his login. For reasons that will be explained I am not the man I used to be and wish to retain anonymity from my previous self here. Thanks for understanding.

My situation is this, one of legalities. I was a TN resident until recently and owned many fine firearms, held a carry permit and was an upstanding citizen. A few months ago I had a mental breakdown and was admitted to Vanderbilt Psychiatric Hospital. Upon my release I was told my carry permit was no longer valid, I will have to wait a period of time to regain that. I then suffered a divorce and had to sell the vast majority of my firearms to facilitate a move to TX.

My questions are these;

Would my revoked TN carry permit be grounds for not qualifying for a TX permit?
Can I sensibly defend my self in my new home with a mental health problem on my record or will that automatically result in a unfriendly jury/judge?
Of the firearms I have left in my possession which of them would be favorable for defense? I have a Glock 34 which has a very light trigger and that could be deemed 'reckless', plus an FN PS90 which may or may not be deemed 'overkill' in a legal situation.

I am between a rock and a hard place here, I don't want to sell those two guns, they mean the world to me for personal reasons. I don't have the money to buy anything else, and may not even pass the background check.

Does anyone here have any experience of mental health issues and self defense?

Thank you all.

 

[kingpin008]

It really depends on the nature of your "breakdown". Was the hospital stay court ordered in any way? That is to say, was it a condition set forth by a judge in response to an arrest or some similar proceeding, or was it a voluntary admission by yourself? That's what will really prove to be the important bit. I'm not sure how such things are handled in TN, so I can only speculate that it was some sort of court-ordered deal, since they would have to have knowledge of it happening to be able to revoke your CCW.

In short, a bit more info is needed to sort things out here.

 

[Holy_Man_Of_The_Lord]

It was a self-admission. The police were not involved. While in their care I spoke with my counsellor and although gun friendly she told me it is grounds to lose the privilege of the carry permit. I have not tried to pass the firearm purchase background check but there is a question regarding mental health on that form.

Basically I am being honest, I could continue carrying as my permit was not taken from me (it is in my wallet), but should I use deadly force it would come to light that I was illegal so I haven't been. Plus I am very paranoid presently so my nerves are in a mess.

 

[TexasRifleman]

Well, as for purchase, the form asks if you've been adjudicated mentally defective or if you've ever been committed to a mental institution. It does not differentiate between voluntary or mandatory commitment from what I can see.

http://www.atf.gov/forms/4473/index.htm

Frankly if you're still having problems a baseball bat would likely serve as better home defense than a firearm at this point.

 

[mljdeckard]

As far as I know, ADJUDICATED means a judge has made some kind of declaration about your mental state. Just because a person has had some flavor or other of mental treatment doesn't mean this has happened.

What I would recommend, go to the Department of Justice website and see what your record says.

We're not shrinks, and we don't know you. The only one who knows if you need to cool it for a while, or if you're ok to be shooting is you. But then again, if you're NOT ok, you wouldn't necessarily know that either. Is it feasible to put the guns in a box for a while, cool it, and let all the dust settle until you know for sure what your medical and legal status really is?

 

[Holy_Man_Of_The_Lord]

Thanks, that is exactly what I have done. Guns are in a box and if anyone were to either enter my new home or accost me on the street I would have to defend myself with my fists. Which given my present condition would be a very dangerous situation.

I ask as this site has valuable information, I realize nobody knows me but I prefer it that way presently for I truly am a shadow of the man I was.

 

[kingpin008]

Adjudicated means court-ordered, which is why I specifically asked about that part. FWIW, I spent some time in a mental health facility when I was younger (admitted by my parents for depression issues when I was 12-13) and since then, I've been trouble-free as far as those issues go. I've also been able to legally purchase guns, since the 4473 forms don't include non-court-ordered type committments and treatment.

Holy Man - it seems to me that your therapist is either severely misinformed, or straight-out lying to you. If the state hasn't revoked your license, then it would appear that they have no reason to and that you're completely legal to carry. Many, many people check themselves in to mental health facilities every day in this country - it's not something that should preclude you from excercising your rights unless you're an obvious danger to yourself or others (which apparently you're not, since you're still out in the world and not locked up in a loony bin!)

Hope this helps.

OH - and as far as whether or not a prosecutor can and would try to use the mental health issue against you in court if you were involved in a shooting - you'd better believe it. Most people, even if the shoot was completely justified and legal, will be sent through the ringer fighting to avoid charges in court. However, that doesn't mean that they'll win. Like I said, if you weren't court-ordered to treatment, you're not that much different than many other Americans with mental health issues.

 

[Aguila Blanca]

It was a self-admission. The police were not involved. While in their care I spoke with my counsellor and although gun friendly she told me it is grounds to lose the privilege of the carry permit. I have not tried to pass the firearm purchase background check but there is a question regarding mental health on that form.

Basically I am being honest, I could continue carrying as my permit was not taken from me (it is in my wallet), but should I use deadly force it would come to light that I was illegal so I haven't been. Plus I am very paranoid presently so my nerves are in a mess.

Are you certain that retaining your TN permit is illegal? You need to read the law, and/or ask an attorney, not a mental health practitioner. The usual disqualifier is if you are involuntarily committed to a mental health institution. Self-admission does not have to be declared on a Federal 4473, and does not have to be disclosed on any state forms in my state. Your state laws, though, obviously might be different. "Committed" means you are there against your will. If you were self-admitted, were you free to check out if you had elected to do so? If so, you were neither adjudicated or "committed." You were simply a patient.

Many states may ask if you have ever had a license or permit denied or revoked by another state. If you allow your current permit to expire and don't seek to renew it, and the state of TN hasn't asked for it back, then you can honstly tell the State of Texas that you have not been denied and you have not been revoked.

Get legal advice from someone who is qualified to give legal advice. (And that doesn't mean me.)

 

[chieftain]

Thanks, that is exactly what I have done. Guns are in a box and if anyone were to either enter my new home or accost me on the street I would have to defend myself with my fists. Which given my present condition would be a very dangerous situation.

I ask as this site has valuable information, I realize nobody knows me but I prefer it that way presently for I truly am a shadow of the man I was.

Glad your condition is improving.

It is important what condition and/or disease do your have or had? Are you still on medication, if so what medications and what are some of the behavioral side effects? (read the insert or get a PDR) What are your symptoms and/or behavior if and when you act out or become psychotic, etc. During this period prior to your in patient period, did you commit any crimes, whether they were reported/found out or not? (don't tell us, you generally know if you did or not. For the parts not possibly remembered, what do your family and friends say about your behavior?)

You stated that if you were accosted in your present state it could be dangerous, for who? You, the attacker, the general public or some combination.

Who told you your CCW was pulled or "no longer valid"? If it was a medical person, they usually don't have any legal status on these things. They would have to notify the state, and the state should advise you.

As to self defense, if it is still legal for you to possess a firearm, I would put the FN into long storage with a friend or family member, and pay the 2.95 for a trigger spring either a stock spring with a standard connector, or just get the NY #1 spring. If you can't install it, most gun shops will do it for you for free, particularly if you bought the spring there. Most folks find it pretty easy to do themselves. I carry a light #3.5 connector (I changed the one it came with) in my 34, and in my 19 and a 3.5 connector and NY#1. I do not carry Glocks, but if I should need to, I would carry the 19 with the 3.5 & New York #1. I shoot limited class steel challenge with the 34, at times.

And yea, I have a Psychiatric back ground. Used to be in the field sometime before I retired.

Good luck, be careful with yourself, and other people.

Fred

 

[conw]

I'm really sorry to hear about your misfortunes. You have no less right to self-defense than anyone else, and unless you committed deeds of a violent nature during your period of turmoil, you haven't tarnished yourself in any way.

Frankly, I would just answer no if you were not adjudicated. I'm sure Mr. 4473 would love everyone to volunteer that they are somehow unfit to purchase guns, but let the gubmint do the footwork. You were not "committed" if you self-admitted, get the drift?

Finally, I hope someone else saw a bit of humor in the following statement:

Holy Man - it seems to me that your therapist is either severely misinformed, or straight-out lying to you.

Here's to better times for you, sir.

 

[bogie]

IMHO, if you volunteered to participate in the "get your **** together" process, you've probably got it covered.

Now you probably have a whole buncha more important things than boomsticks to be concerned about. We can give you a hand if you need it. Or we can listen. Or we can bitch along with you. It's all good.

Odds are you don't have to worry about things like home invaders, all that crap. So go into "let it slide" mode, okay? Don't sweat the stuff which you do not have control over. And the stuff you -do- have control over? Some is important, some isn't... Break that down too...

And eat a good breakfast, and smile at the world.

 

[conw]

Dang bogie, that was good advice for me too...

 

[Raccoon]

I wouldn't necessarily say the therapist was misinformed; just perhaps misinforming you. She may have felt it was a good idea for you to stop carrying for a while, at the time. It may still be a good idea not to carry--that's your call.

It's not uncommon for a breakup and divorce to severely shake someone, and it's not abnormal for that person to seek revenge, or harm themselves. These desires are part of the grieving process, and it's a good idea to separate yourself from devices that may foster them. And even if neither of these temptations apply to you, it doesn't sound like you're quite 100%, and vulnerable to slip up on a judgment call.

If you have any human contact I'd recommend asking someone to put your guns into storage for 6 months... and pick up that baseball bat for home defense. They're good to have around even if you are a gun owner. 6 months later, you'll still be the proud owner a P90 and Glock34.

 

[U.S.SFC_RET]

A woman can wreck your life. I know of good friend of mine in the military who watched half of his pension go down the tubes to an undeserving. Hang in there because things have a way of working out.

 

[Augustwest]

...and it's not abnormal for that person to seek revenge, or harm themselves.

It absolutely is abnormal. The vast majority of people who get divorced - whether they're "shaken" by it or not, don't seek revenge or harm themselves...

 

[Z-Michigan]

I think the key points are covered above. You should probably consult an attorney if you want to keep using your permit.

I'm not certain of this, but I think the conditions that would deny you purchase of a firearm on the 4473 also deny you the right to simply own one you had already had. Might want to check on that. Hopefully you have no issues with the specific questions anyway.

I do not think a PS90 would be "overkill" for a legitimate self-defense shooting in your own house. I would not feel the need to replace it on that basis.

Best of luck to you. It's obvious that you're trying to get things together and be completely responsible.