Home Defense plan and Child Hearing Loss considerations

[vicdotcom]

Hello everyone,

I have a question about home defense and maybe altering my strategies/firearms for a home defense shooting. I have a 1500 sq foot house. Average size house and rooms. I also have a son who is only one and a half. I was thinking about something after my last trip to the range while shooting my shotgun. I had hearing protection on and I could tell how loud the percussions were. The room I was shooting in also had sound absorbing wall coverings. I shoot off a shell once a long time ago without hearing protection and I couldnt hear straight for a few days.

Now I am thinking about a home defense situation where I would need to get my firearm and possibly fire. In this situation, my little son would have no hearing protection and I am worried that his hearing would be damaged permanently due to a 12 gauge being shot in the house.

In this situation, I understand that risking his hearing is nothing compared to risking his life. But I also dont want him to be deafened due to a home invasion. I could have my wife keep him in the master bath with the doors closed. Or I could use my revolver instead of the 12 gauge, maybe even my 308 rifle.

Basically what I am asking is if this is something I should be worried about? In our home defense plan, my wife, my son and I hold up in our master bedroom taking cover in case someone decides to walk down the hall and come through our door. I do not head out for the bad guy. So if someone did pop their head in the door the family will be in the room when the gun goes off. I mean I guess my wife can cover my son's ears. But that takes away both her hands and the backup weapon.

I just wanted to gather some thoughts. Thanks in advance everyone!

 

[gotime242]

Life > Hearing

Use what it takes to stop the threat.

 

[Picard]

Well it's one of the drawbacks of using a firearm. Can't really get around it without a suppressor.

In a life or death situation, hearing should be the last one of your worries.

 

[mgkdrgn]

Unless you are planning on holding off a horde of Zulu warriors, a couple of home defense blasts (and a VERY minuscule of that ever actually taking place) aren't likely to do any permanent damage to the youngsters hearing. For sure no worse than he'll do with his own iPod (or what every they are using then) in 12 years or so.

 

[Fred Fuller]

If you have prepared your master bedroom as a saferoom (cell phone, remote controlled lighting, spare set of house keys on a ChemLite stick to toss out for the responding LEOs, etc), why not just add a couple of sets of hearing protection as well, to ease your worries? Electronic muffs for your spouse (and you for that matter) will allow you to hear- or even hear better- and protect your ears, and a set of child sized muffs for your toddler will do the same. Just store 'em in a box under the bed or some other handy place instead of the range bag, use 'em when you go to the range so the batteries are always good.

lpl

 

[ASM826]

Everyone said the same thing I was thinking, but I will add one thought.

I taught them all, if Daddy ever said, "DOWN!" He meant down, exceed gravity, dive to the deck and get yourself flat with your fingers in your ears because Daddy was ready to shoot over your heads.

It never happened, I hope it never does. It is something to consider.

 

[VARifleman]

Couple of things, they do make electronic ear plugs, I've been tempted to get some. Also, if you can get a suppressor, do so. It'll still be pretty loud, but not deafening. That said, I've been next to firearms without hearing protection, and I can still hear. It's not going to make you deaf, but it can cause you to lose hearing for that moment in time.

 

[benEzra]

A .38 isn't appreciably quieter than a 12-gauge shotgun, due to the barrel-cylinder gap and the far shorter barrel. The .308 is likely about the same loudness as the shotgun.

See below. Not sure if these figures are straight dB or dBA.

http://www.freehearingtest.com/hia_gunfirenoise.shtml

Table 1. SHOTGUN NOISE DATA (DECIBEL AVERAGES)

.410 Bore 28" barrel.....150dB
26" barrel...............150.25dB
18 _" barrel.............156.30dB
20 Gauge 28" barrel......152.50dB
22" barrel...............154.75dB
12 Gauge 28" barrel......151.50dB
26" barrel...............156.10dB
18 _" barrel.............161.50dB

Dr. Krammer continues to say that shotgun noise averaged slightly more that 150dB. This is approximately 14dB beyond the threshold of pain, and more than sufficient to cause sudden hearing loss with complications.


Table 2. CENTERFIRE RIFLE DATA
.223, 55GR. Commercial load 18 _" barrel.....155.5dB
.243 in 22" barrel...........................155.9dB
.30-30 in 20" barrel.........................156.0dB
7mm Magnum in 20" barrel.....................157.5dB
.308 in 24" barrel...........................156.2dB
.30-06 in 24" barrel.........................158.5dB
.30-06 in 18 _" barrel.......................163.2dB
.375 — 18" barrel with muzzle brake...........170 dB

Krammer adds that sound pressure levels for the various pistols and ammunition tested yielded an average mean of 157.5 dB, which is greater than those previously shown for shotgun and rifle noise levels. There was also a greater range, from 152.4dB to 164.5dB, representing 12 dB difference, or more than 10 time as much acoustic energy for the top end of the pistol spectrum. It should be noticed that this figure of 164.5 dB approaches the practical limit of impulse noise measurement capability inherent in most modern sound level meters.


Table 3. CENTERFIRE PISTOL DATA
.25 ACP...........155.0 dB
.32 LONG..........152.4 dB
.32 ACP...........153.5 dB
.380..............157.7 dB
9mm...............159.8 dB
.38 S&W...........153.5 dB
.38 Spl...........156.3 dB
.357 Magnum.......164.3 dB
.41 Magnum........163.2 dB
.44 Spl...........155.9 dB
.45 ACP...........157.0 dB
.45 COLT..........154.7 dB

For those who don't grok decibels, it's a logarithmic scale (usually log10); a 3dB difference equals twice the radiated acoustic energy, and a 10dB difference is ten times the radiated acoustic energy. The ear perceives a 10dB difference as a doubling in volume, and IIRC the average person can just barely distinguish a 1dB difference. A car interior at highway speeds is 60-70 dB, a vacuum cleaner in the 80's to 90dB, I think.

Contrary to popular belief, there doesn't seem to be a huge difference between shotgun, pistol, and rifle noise levels, although the sound spectrum is undoubtedly different. There is a correlation with caliber (e.g., .30-06 is louder than .223 and .357 is considerably louder than 9mm or .45), but the most striking difference to me is how much louder a muzzle brake makes a hunting-caliber rifle (nearly 6 dB louder than an unbraked rifle, using an 18" .30-06 as a comparison, or translates to approximately 4 times the radiated acoustic energy). There's a tight correlation with barrel length (shorter is louder for any given caliber), but also less correlation with velocity than I expected (i.e., a slowpoke .30-30 round out of a 20" barrel is a smidgen louder than a faster but much smaller .223 round out of an 18" barrel). For 7.62x39mm, I'd assume the sound levels would be about the same as .30-30, which it resembles.

The other thing is, the sound intensity (W/m^2) falls off as the square of the distance from the muzzle. Firing a gun in another room will not damage your child's hearing. Firing a gun in the child's room could. Firing the gun with the child standing right next to you would be more likely to cause damage than if the child were several feet away.

If you are that concerned about it, you could look into a high-capacity 9mm carbine shooting 147-grain subsonic JHP's, but I personally think that it's not really something to worry about. If you get in a car accident, the airbags can cause hearing damage too, but it's not the primary consideration if it comes down to that.

 

[joab]

The probability of blood loss far outweighs the possibility of hearing loss

Every decision in life depends on perspective and priority

 

[Wes Janson]

Buy a suppressor.

 

[WoofersInc]

Buy a suppressor.

In some states that is not an option. Nor is it an option depending on the type of gun being used.

I am one the the group that believes that using a suppressor for a defensive shoot will lead to a problem legally down the road. I know that there is the "if it's a good shoot it's a good shoot" crowd. That still will not stop a DA from going after you if it will advance his career.
The couple of shots used in a typical defensive home shoot are a much more acceptable risk for me, I.E. a tiny bit of hearing loss versus going to jail even if it was a good shoot. I simply don't trust the juries of today not to look past a "hitman's" tool.
The options of using electronic ears makes much better sense.

 

[pinstripe]

USE A BAT????? Get real!

 

[Mandirigma]

failing buying ear protection, a suppressor and etc. have them hide in a closet, it its isn't one of the ones with slits (kind of like blinds) it should help muffle the noise of gunfire.

 

[ctdonath]

Silencer, if legal. Don't worry about the DA (hashed out in other threads).

 

[Eyesac]

Another vote for a supressor. If you're worried about it, I can't think of a better candidate for a supressor (state laws willing).

 

[SWDoc]

Great question. Get some electronic muffs. They can actually amplify night sounds, but protect hearing.

I shoot quite often with a neurologist. He is adamant that you CAN suffer permanent hearing loss or prolonged tinnitis (ringing ears) from a rifle or pistol shot in an average room (worse yet, inside a car), if ears are not protected. As stated, it is better than being dead, but may be avoidable.

The violence of the muzzle blast is bad enough when you are outside, and most of us have had someone light one off near us while under a tin roof or covered firing lione, so imagine it in a closed room.

Down side I see to electronic muffs is getting them turned on, if you are a bit "rushed".

Worth some thought, though.

Steve

 

[elChupacabra!]

I'm going to disagree with everyone who advises the muffs for yourself, your wife or your child. Although in theory that sounds like a good idea, I really think that, unless you all sleep with them already on, they are going to cause more harm than good.

Consider the circumstances you would need them in. You've been awakened in the night because either you or your wife believes an intruder may be in your home. At this point, I believe the only things you need to have to deal with are

1) The location, safety and security of your family members
2) Acquiring and readying your weapon
3) Being threat-focused, up to and including engaging if necessary
4) Calling the police as appropriate

If you start throwing in tertiary measures like protecting hearing, you are going to have to take your focus off of those priorities to do so. Imagine yourself donning your hearing protection and fiddling with the volume as the bad guy kicks in the door behind your back. Even if you're facing the door, you aren't going to have the weapon in hand and oriented at the threat while you dig under the bed for your box of muffs or are trying to get them turned on or whatever you may be doing with them.

At that point, you are focusing on protecting your hearing and not your life. I think that reverses your priorities.

I do understand your concern and it's certainly a valid point. I've seen many people discuss body armor / hearing protection etc. for use in an HD scenario, but I can't help but think that priorities are out of line at that point. I'd much rather be preparing to unleash superior firepower against an aggressor than engaging in defensive actions that may protect a certain part of your body but make you entirely vulnerable until your preparations are complete, and an intruder may not wait for you to finish getting ready.

As they say, the best defense is a good offense. I'd focus on swift, easy measures to get to that aggressive-defensive (I know that sounds like a contradiction but I don't know how else to put it... I've heard it referred to as a "semi-predatory mindset" if that helps clarify...) posture as quickly and efficiently as possible, and don't see any sort of hearing protection in that plan.

Of course, this is just my humble opinion

 

[jayofthejungle1985]

my little ones make more frakin noise than any of my guns do

 

[Kentak]

Take heart in the fact that the chance of you ever having to fire your weapon in proximity to your child due to a home invasion is miniscule. Maybe even less.

K

 

[Hook686]

If the ssituation has reached the level you are worried about your life, and/or the lives of your family I think the idea is to grab the nearest loaded firearm and hope you and your family are alive after the shooting to determine the hearing factor.

If you plan to shoot at the 'creaks in the night', then I suspect hearing protection is in order for the entire family at bedtime.

 

[SWDoc]

Chupacabra,

You are right. Priority is staying alive. IF there is time to take further protective measures (after securing a barrier for you and your family, in a safe room for instance) Then hearing protection/enhancement can be considered. I can really see both sides of this, and agree that if you expand your options too much your OODA loop gets ridiculous. But just like, given time, distance, and ability to remain calm, consideration of legal consequences has a place, so does long term physical effect of a shootout.

These are not top tier considerations, but neither are they of no consequence. I put them below calling 911, but above washing out your BVD's.

Problem one: stay alive.

Problem two: everything else.

(Cooper, I think).

Steve

 

[YammyMonkey]

To throw another wrench into this... Hearing damage typically occurs over time & is cumulative. On the other hand it only takes one bad incident to ruin your vision. Personally I'd be more likely to keep eye pro of some sort on the nightstand, but again you have to take into consideration the totality of the circumstances.

If you hear someone messing around in the basement you probably have time to grab your gun, slap on your CIRAS with level IV plates & groin protector, helmet, eye & ear pro, raise your shields, call in the airstrike, egress to your escape pod & bug out to Obama-12 where there is no crime, nobody pays for healthcare & you'll be vaporized upon landing for carrying the items mentioned above & hostile thoughts in your head.

If the intruder is kicking in your bedroom door though, you'll be lucky to get your hand on your gun & front sight press before he gets from the doorway to your bed with the cleaver he picked up in your kitchen.

Your response will be determined by your situation, not the other way around. It would be nice to have the option though if the extra time is presented to you.

 

[jkingrph]

Your child cannot sleep with ear muffs, and not a good idea for ear plugs either. Small children are too prone to ear infections. If a situation were to occur, the last thing you are concerned about is trying to put ear protectors on a small child , I do not even think any are made small enough to fit properly.

The one time exposure to the sound is preferable to the loss or serious injury to the child, parents or siblings. Do what you have to do to protect family from serious injury, don't tilt at windmills.

 

[Loosedhorse]

Hold drills...

like fire drills, but this time they're home-invasion drills. Everyone into the master bedroom. If you shout, "STOP OR I'LL SHOOT" everyone covers their ears. Simple?

As to ear muffs: I (with the gun) would only wear the electronic kind, and probably only if I'm barricaded in the bedroom, not if I'm house-clearing. If you don't, your hearing will be pretty miserable after the first shot (but so will the bad guys').