Home defense noise considerations

Status
Not open for further replies.
B

beerslurpy

member
Joined
Nov 8, 2004
Messages
4,438
Location
Spring Hill, Florida
Firing a gun indoors without hearing protection or a suppresor is obviously unpleasant, but less so than being killed. I know many people use pistols, but I would imagine a large number also use shotguns and a few use EBRs or heavier stuff. I havent heard of anyone complaining of the noise of 12 gauge, but everyone seems to think that the EBRs are dangerous to use, which seems counterintuitive.

Anyway, I wondered who had any knowledge of the relative noise levels of the typical home defense weapons such as:
-40/45 caliber handguns
-12 gauge shotgun
-223/7.62x39/308 rifles

Arent they all likely to cause hearing damage if fired unsuppressed? I've fired 22 from a pistol indoors a few times and it was fricken loud.
 
Here's a few:
http://www.freehearingtest.com/hia_gunfirenoise.shtml

Gunfire Sound Levels
Gunfire Noise Level Reference Chart

Below we have listed critical data describing peak sound pressure levels produced by firearms used in shooting and hunting sports. A serious byproduct of this exposure is sensory-neural hearing loss, which cannot be restored to normal. With the introduction of MUZZLE BRAKES and PORTING, the risks of hearing loss dramatically increase. Use this chart as a reference guide for promoting the need of using adequate hearing protection.
Notations

Keep in mind that conversational speech is approximately 60-65 dB, and the threshold of pain is considered to be 140 dB. According to Dr. William Clark, Ph.D. senior research scientist in charge of the NOISE LABORATORY at the Central Institute for the Deaf in St. Louis, the damage caused by one shot from a .357 magnum pistol, which can expose a shooter to 165 dB for 2msec, is equivalent to over 40 hours in a noisy workplace. Dr. Krammer, Ph.D., Ball State University, Muncie, Indiana has documented the following pressure levels.

Table 1. SHOTGUN NOISE DATA (DECIBEL AVERAGES)
.410 Bore 28" barrel 150dB
26" barrel 150.25dB
18 _" barrel 156.30dB
20 Gauge 28" barrel 152.50dB
22" barrel 154.75dB
12 Gauge 28" barrel 151.50dB
26" barrel 156.10dB
18 _" barrel 161.50dB



Dr. Krammer continues to say that shotgun noise averaged slightly more that 150dB. This is approximately 14dB beyond the threshold of pain, and more than sufficient to cause sudden hearing loss with complications.

Table 2. CENTERFIRE RIFLE DATA
.223, 55GR. Commercial load 18 _" barrel 155.5dB
.243 in 22" barrel 155.9dB
.30-30 in 20" barrel 156.0dB
7mm Magnum in 20" barrel 157.5dB
.308 in 24" barrel 156.2dB
.30-06 in 24" barrel 158.5dB
.30-06 in 18 _" barrel 163.2dB
.375 — 18" barrel with muzzle brake 170 dB

Krammer adds that sound pressure levels for the various pistols and ammunition tested yielded an average mean of 157.5 dB, which is greater than those previously shown for shotgun and rifle noise levels. There was also a greater range, from 152.4dB to 164.5dB, representing 12 dB difference, or more than 10 time as much acoustic energy for the top end of the pistol spectrum. It should be noticed that this figure of 164.5 dB approaches the practical limit of impulse noise measurement capability inherent in most modern sound level meters.

Table 3. CENTERFIRE PISTOL DATA
.25 ACP 155.0 dB
.32 LONG 152.4 dB
.32 ACP 153.5 dB
.380 157.7 dB
9mm 159.8 dB
.38 S&W 153.5 dB
.38 Spl 156.3 dB
.357 Magnum 164.3 dB
.41 Magnum 163.2 dB
.44 Spl 155.9 dB
.45 ACP 157.0 dB
.45 COLT 154.7 dB

The above averages are for all types of ammunition used in these firearms, and should be considered fairly representative. No wonder we hear numerous reports about hearing loss as a result of firearms including acoustic traumas that take hearing completely as a result of one shot. Imagine what the noise levels must be when we incorporate muzzle brakes or porting into firearms, or have a gun explode near the ear due to malfunction.

OUR WARNING IS SIMPLE AND IS IN THE BEST INTERESTS OF EACH SHOOTER. AS THE SOUND PRESSURES INCREASE, SO DOES THE RISK OF PERMANENT HEARING LOSS. IF YOU INCORPORATE A PROCEDURE INTO YOUR SHOOTING THAT INCREASES THE SOUND LEVEL, YOU ALSO INCREASE THE RISK OF HEARING LOSS TO YOURSELF AND POSSIBLY THOSE WHO STAND NEAR YOU. BE SURE TO USE ADEQUATE EAR PROTECTION WHEN USING A FIREARM AND BE CAREFUL OF THOSE NEARBY. LAWSUITS HAVE ALREADY BEEN RECOGNIZED FOR GUNFIRE NOISE THAT HAS RESULTED IN HEARING LOSS. ALWAYS CONSULT A PROFESSIONAL AUDIOLOGIST, OTOLOGIST, OR OTOLARYNGOLOGIST WITH YOUR HEARING PROBLEMS. Hearing loss is not fun and can be prevented.

Compliments of www.earinc.com
Click to expand...
 
Hi All-

That scientist who did the testing must have endured hearing loss himself because he was SHOUTING in the last paragraph! :neener:

~ Blue Jays ~
 
Blue Jays said:
Hi All-

That scientist who did the testing must have endured hearing loss himself because he was SHOUTING in the last paragraph! :neener:

~ Blue Jays ~
Click to expand...


Naww. It's that way because he had to CAP some guy in the test.:evil:
 
awwwwww,,, I was already for the tests.
I thought it was going to be a gun hearing test and had my ear plugs in and everything! :p
 
My cousin actually blew out one of his eardrums while using a concrete nail gun when trying to finish his basement. It is pretty much a 22 that shoots a nail. It doesn't take much to mess your hearing up.

You figure in the days of WWII and other such conflicts, I doubt that most of the GIs wore hearing protection. I couldn't even imagine what a firefight at close range would do to your hearing. I'm surprised any of those guys can hear at all.
 
ok. if someone broke into my house, i dont care how loud the weapon is, id only care about the health and welfare of my family and the response time of the police. if it came down to shooting indoors, id rather have some form of hearing damage from shooting at or shooting an intruder, than having the same damage from getting shot and surviving from the intruder, or flat out getting killed. i have shot a .308 without hearing protection, my ears were ringing for 5 hours. but everyones sensitivity to hearing is different, just like touch and taste. personally a 9mm or .40 is what i use. i wont use a shotgun due to the potential background and collateral damage from the spray. if you think you need hearing protection even in a home invasion case... keep earplugs next to your weapon. i recomment putting it in one ear and keeping the other unhindered to better hear your family or a cop identifying himself.
 
Problem is that getting suppresors is a royal pain and putting on earmuffs while someone is attacking you is not really easy I imagine.

Even if a suppresor only reduced a gun to 100 decibels, that would be the difference between "ooh that was kind of loud" and "HEY HONEY I CANT HEAR YOU SPEAK UP MY EARS FEEL TINGLY." I'll ask in legal and political about incorporation.
 
Carpe Cerevisi said:
ok i wont use a shotgun due to the potential background and collateral damage from the spray. if you think you need hearing protection even in a home invasion case... keep earplugs next to your weapon. i recomment putting it in one ear and keeping the other unhindered to better hear your family or a cop identifying himself.
Click to expand...

Have you ever patterned 00 buck at HD ranges? The spread, even from an 18inch barrel, isn't very much. At HD ranges, you still have to aim a shotgun to hit your target. The point of buck isn't to spray the area with lead, its to mangle your target and increase the chances of a stopping hit.
And there are always slugs.
 
Mfree, I'm with you.

If the back door glass is breaking, the last thing I'm going to worry about is where I left my hearing protection. I want to hear EVERYthing that's going on up to the point where I might need to fire a weapon.
 
That's 'cause .223 is nothing but a glorified .22lr
Click to expand...
This reminds me of the anecdotes about certain foreign fighters using the AK-47 rifles. Seems that they always set the sights to maximum range because they believe it makes the gun shoot more powerfully.

I guess if you think that sound=power, you could put a muzzle brake or comp on your guns. That will make them much louder and they will obviously therefore be much more powerful.:D
want to hear EVERYthing that's going on up to the point where I might need to fire a weapon.
Click to expand...
Ok, first of all I agree 100% about NOT grabbing hearing protection if time is of the essence. But I can't help but wonder where you have been for the last 20 years or so...

Electronic hearing protection has been available for quite some time. It will not only allow you to "hear EVERYthing" but can also actually enhance your hearing.
 
Rockrivr1 said:
... You figure in the days of WWII and other such conflicts, I doubt that most of the GIs wore hearing protection. I couldn't even imagine what a firefight at close range would do to your hearing. I'm surprised any of those guys can hear at all.
Click to expand...

This is something to think about. It is all well and good to take all of these measurements. Build all of these case studies that show how bad loud noise it. But when you go back and look at real life situations, don't they show that all of the calculations are only guidelines and no true test of what will happen?

Based on what doctors etc. say today, by the end of WWII almost every man between 20 - 35 should have been deaf. But they weren't. Where is the disconnect?
 
I've fired all kinds of guns without hearing protection. Rifles, pistols, and shotguns, and even a friends ported pistol (Glock 21C). My ears always ring after shooting without hearing protection, and it's not something I do very often, but it happens. I have never considered the sound of gunfire to be painful, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with my hearing. I'm always the first one to hear an ambulance in traffic (even with music playing), or whatever the situation calls for. I would go as far as to say my hearing is excellent. And as mentioned previously, what about combat veterans? Why aren't they all deaf?

OTOH, most people I know who work with incredibly loud equipment on a daily basis, or those who constantly listen to loud music, have hearing problems. IANAD, but I would think constant exposure to loud noise would do considerably more damage than occasionally or rarely experiencing loud noises like gunfire.
 
Ok, first of all I agree 100% about NOT grabbing hearing protection if time is of the essence. But I can't help but wonder where you have been for the last 20 years or so...

Electronic hearing protection has been available for quite some time. It will not only allow you to "hear EVERYthing" but can also actually enhance your hearing.
Click to expand...

Where have I been the last 20 years? Nice way to stay on The High Road. I've been writing for magazines who have gizmos like "Walkers Game Ear" and other brand electronic muffs and am fully aware of their capabilities.

And yet, again, a pair of muffs -- electronic or not -- is NOT what I will be grabbing when my home is invaded. :rolleyes:
 
Nor me. If it were a simple "bump-in-the-night" scenario, I might, but when immediate response is necessary, the last thing I'd be worried about is hearing protection. I made that plain in my earlier reply.
I've been writing for magazines who have gizmos like "Walkers Game Ear" and other brand electronic muffs and am fully aware of their capabilities.
Click to expand...
So why would you imply that hearing protection would prevent you from "hearing EVERYthing"? :confused:
 
John,
Because the hearing protection I own is the non-electronic kind and would prevent me from hearing everything. Although I'm sure they are wonderful, I've no desire to buy a set of electronic muffs. I like to block out as much of the world as possible when shooting. It's easier to hear the voices that way. ;)
Joel
 
Rockrivr1 said:
You figure in the days of WWII and other such conflicts, I doubt that most of the GIs wore hearing protection. I couldn't even imagine what a firefight at close range would do to your hearing. I'm surprised any of those guys can hear at all.
Click to expand...

There is a big difference between shooting out in open areas vs. indoors.

The private range I frequent has an indoor range house with small portals for shooting downrange. In the enclosed space, I wouldn't DARE consider shooting without hearing protection.

Outdoors is another story. The acoustics change completely.
 
there is also a mental thing that appears to happen with people in high stress situations, I read in one of my gun mags, about a guy working for some agency over in the sandbox took out 6 BGs with his AR15, at close range, just outside the back door of the place they were raiding, anyways he stated that afterwards he expereinced no ringing in his ears,

some doctors beleive that the mind is capable of turning off your ears if you will to protect them, (they use prettier words though) I know from personal experience that when I shoot shotgun hunting, I'll get the ringing in my left ear but my right is fine, I'm right handed and my left ear is pointed more towards the muzzle, in fact I recently went to the VA for my 5 year checkup and upon checking my ears, my right ear is perfectly normal but I'm right on the threshhold of being deaf across a frequency band in my left ear, I should give them a call and find out just what freqs they were, which conferms what I've been fearing for a while now, hell I always make sure I got my plugs in at the range, and when we shoot the M2 and I'm the A gunner, I put my hands over my ears too, its just painfully loud.
 
For those of you that are acting like we're suggesting that the first thing to do is grab your muffs, knock it off. No one in this thread or any other discussing hearing damage and self defense has yet to suggest that and it's a sophmoric attempt to divert the discussion. We all know that the first thing you grab if you think there's a breakin is your gun (well, maybe after your pants :uhoh: )

Why don't vets have hearing damage? Good question, but we know vets that do, so I guess the better question is why don't all combat vets have severe hearing damage? Don't know, but I'll do some research and try to let you know what the military thinks about it.

I can tell you that you will experience a threshold shift (change in how loud a faint tone on a hearing test must be for you to hear) if enough exposure occurs. A single shot in the open may not do it. A dozen may not. I can guarntee that you will not notice your loss of hearing until you find yourself realizing that they seem to be changing the position on the car radio knobs for volume or that you can't hear your kid's voice. Hearing loss is a war of inches and over time you loose a lot of ground.

Grab the gun first, the phone second, your flashlight third, your pants forth and your electronic muffs last. If you can't get to the second or third or fourth step before you have to fire don't hesitate to take the shot, but if you've got time to get to the muffs don't ignore them.
 
Although I'm sure they are wonderful, I've no desire to buy a set of electronic muffs. I like to block out as much of the world as possible when shooting.
Click to expand...
I bought mine mostly for instructor work. When I'm just shooting, I'm like you.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

B
  • Locked
Options for home defense - baby on the way
Replies
19
Views
1K
B yond
B
V
  • Locked
Home Defense plan and Child Hearing Loss considerations
Replies
23
Views
1K
Loosedhorse
L
B
  • Locked
Firearms and noise
Replies
2
Views
458
Jorg Nysgerrig
J
M
  • Locked
Using Airsoft for Self Defense Training/Practice
2 3
Replies
57
Views
3K
t_durden
T
B
  • Locked
home defense choices
2
Replies
40
Views
2K
MTHall49
M
Back
Top