defending yourself indoors without hearing loss

[JohnKSa]

Any hearing damage that may be inflicted in a self defense situation indoors is unlikely to be permanent. Most hearing loss happens due to prolonged exposure to high db noise. OSHA weights their hearing protection requirements in a db (loudness) vs. time (length of exposure) formula.

Your statement about OSHA hearing protection is correct, however your interpretation is inaccurate.

If a sound is loud enough (and gunshots qualify) then even a single exposure will require hearing protection under OSHA requirements and can cause hearing damage without protection.

 

[Averageman]

Soldiers are issued hearing protection and are required to have it on them at all times when in the field. The VA is taking an increasingly hard-line position on paying disability for hearing loss, you have ear plugs, if you don't use them it's your fault.
There are a few mitigating factors to consider. On the modern battlefield, it's really better to use earplugs. It's not just the gunshots that are hazardous. There are engines of all types, equipment noise, etc. There are combat vehicles that are so loud that just being inside one is a noise hazard. You are much more likely to be injured because you DIDN'T wear earplugs than because you DID.

I'm sorry I take issue with this whole statement and the idea that hearing protection is vital at this point.
When your life is on the line your hearing may be an essential tool you need; wearing any device that limits your hearing limits your survivability. It is true that hearing loss may occur if you fire a shot while protecting your home/family; but you may not hear a slight noise that will save your life.
As far as hearing protection on the Battlefield,...
The little bit of protection your issue foam earplugs provide isnt worth the resulting loss of sensory perception. It would be the same as wearing a welding hood so the bright flashes dont damage your eyes.
The V.A.,Ummmmm....sorry they dont care about a Vet anyway.

 

[Manco]

When your life is on the line your hearing may be an essential tool you need; wearing any device that limits your hearing limits your survivability. It is true that hearing loss may occur if you fire a shot while protecting your home/family; but you may not hear a slight noise that will save your life.

A device that enhances the sensitivity of one's hearing while protecting it would be ideal. Such devices exist, but the issue is logistics, mainly the time it takes to put them on and get them working--not long, but every second counts.

As far as hearing protection on the Battlefield,...
The little bit of protection your issue foam earplugs provide isnt worth the resulting loss of sensory perception.

Some people are going to lose a significant amount of sensory perception anyway after firing their weapon a few times while unprotected. There are devices that work a lot better on the battlefield than foam earplugs. The current-issue earplug tries to passively allow as much normal hearing as possible while protecting against impulse noise, but if that's not good enough, then perhaps electronic hearing protection should be issued (not cheap, but neither is hearing loss).

It would be the same as wearing a welding hood so the bright flashes dont damage your eyes.

Not if "active" devices are used.

 

[WCSO]

WSCO,

Just curious- have you ever had a hearing test?

lpl

Sorry it took me so long to get back with my answer. As I was typing it the first time my pc crashed and I ended up having to buy a new one.

To answer your question. Yes I did have my hearing tested, twice after the incident and was informed it checked out fine with no hearing loss.

I do not have a problem hearing now. I keep the TV volume low and don't have problems hearing conversations. However my hearing is VERY sensitive. Loud nosies, equipment running, baby crying, talking of large groups of people tend to cause acute pain to my ears. At first I thought it was just nerves but it may be in relation to the shooting incidents, the one I mentioned earlier and 2 more that happend later.

But I know that any way you look at it you need to wear hearing portection it at all possible. It's going to be a lot safer to take care of your hearing now because it isn't likely going to come back once you have lost it.

 

[mljdeckard]

Averageman,

Not really. Think about it. Of the casualties from this war, the vast majority of them are from IEDs of one form or another. Not combat. We aren't crawling through jungles trying to hear the bad guys over the sounds of the wildlife. You are much more likely to get injured because you weren't protecting your hearing than if you were. And the combat plugs that allow regular sound while blocking high-intensity sound actually work pretty well. I am much more concerned with the consequences of going without. What is worse, losing a little bit of hearing to earplugs in the field, or losing it PERMANENTLY?

And like Manco said, there are electronic muffs that fit under your helmet. For my job in particular, I will probably be issued these.

 

[Sav .250]

Possible loss of live against "maybe" some hearing loss. Maybe! I`ve read some strange questions, although to you it sounds like a concern of the first order so I`ll just suggest you keep some sort of hearing protection close by your weapon of choice.
On second thought. Maybe you should use a ....reduced load in that weapon. Less powder. Less bang.

 

[Ryder]

I've fired guns in the house. IMO it doesn't have much to do with the caliber. It is dependant on cartridge pressure. The 45acp has a fairly low operating pressure compared to other pistol cartridges and is only about half as bad. Any cartridge can be downloaded to a lower pressure if you're a handloader though.

Also take into account how much of the potential reflected noise is absorbed by carpets, padded furniture and thick drapes as you would have in a living room or bedroom. Shooting a gun in a room with tile floors, bare walls, and hard furniture like the kitchen or bathroom is considerably louder as the sound reflects more completely, certainly not recommended.

 

[Manco]

Possible loss of live against "maybe" some hearing loss. Maybe!

If there is no time to react, then fine, do whatever you need to do in order to survive, but if you're not in immediate danger, then donning good electronic muffs/plugs (or any other protection that allows you to hear well enough) would be a very good idea. As for maybe, it's more like probably regarding permanent hearing damage, and almost certainly regarding a temporary loss of sensitivity that could, in some scenarios, put your life at greater risk.

I've fired guns in the house. IMO it doesn't have much to do with the caliber. It is dependant on cartridge pressure.

Technically, it depends on how much pressure is left after the bullet exits the barrel, although obviously there's a correlation between the two. The latter can, however, break down when guns with different barrel lengths are being compared (obviously shorter barrels result in higher residual pressure and louder noise).

 

[Averageman]

Hmmmm
I still will stick with the idea of not wearing hearing protection. I will depend on using the hearing I have and am willing to sacrifice a little in order to maintain the sensory edge in a possible emergency.
As far as Mil. Spec hearing protection, I have yet to see any "active' devices used. It's all Foam or the flanged rubber plugs with the exception of the ear muff type that are rarely used. The smartest and newest thing I have seen is the use of a mouth piece that helps prevent concussions and TBA.
It has been my experiance that using hearing protection on the range can sometimes be more dangerous than not wearing it. Thats just my experiance, Yours may be different. I understand the long term effects and I am willing to accept them in order to work effectively and safely.
As far as reacting to a "bump" in the night, No Way I would wear them. I want to react quickly, and I dont see passive hearing protection doing that for me. I want to hear every creak of every floor board and I am not trusting them to provide that for me.
Do what you like and what you think works best for you, but I think this is a non issue that has turned from a mole hill to a potentially dangerous mountain.

 

[JohnKSa]

As far as reacting to a "bump" in the night, No Way I would wear them. I want to react quickly, and I dont see passive hearing protection doing that for me.

It can react fast enough to stop the sound of a gunshot from reaching your ear. It's not going to cause you any loss of reaction time.

I want to hear every creak of every floor board and I am not trusting them to provide that for me.

You should try a good set sometime. You can hear better than normal with them. If everything else is quiet, you can stand in a doorway and listen to see if someone is breathing in the room.

 

[Defense Minister]

While I agree with those who say the last thing you want to worry about is hearing loss when you're fighting for your life, I do think you have a valid question. I mean, why would I want to stop an attack and sustain hearing loss simultaneously, when, instead, I could stop the attack and keep my hearing intact? I thing you're on the right track with the pistol caliber carbine, and it is exactly that reason that I am currently looking for a Kel-Tec Sub 2000 in 9MM.

 

[loneviking]

Hearing protection? When somebody is kicking down my back door!!? Are you kidding me? That's just one more thing to slow down my response time and when my and/or my familys safety is on the line, hearing be damned!

 

[JohnKSa]

Hearing protection? When somebody is kicking down my back door!!? Are you kidding me? That's just one more thing to slow down my response time and when my and/or my familys safety is on the line, hearing be damned!

Way to read the thread before responding.

No one's recommending that people stop in the middle of an emergency to don hearing protection.

 

[outerlimit]

I value my hearing very highly, so even though I like loud music and sometimes shoot a rifle or shotgun outdoors without protection, I'm not going to subject my ears to a gunshot inside, which is a great amount louder and will burst your eardrums. It's hard to fight an attacker when your hearing is gone and your equilibrium is all screwed up. And, you won't hear the next attacker coming, whether it be then or later. It continues to amaze me the amount of people who still say "I don't care about my hearing if someone is breaking in", it is so short sighted. I keep a set of Surefire earplugs on my nightstand which allow you to hear quite noises and stop louder ones. And I intend to grab a pair of Pro-ears one of these days or a similar type of noise amplification & reduction ear set.

 

[Averageman]

I've been thinking latley about what caliber would be a good defense caliber, and it occured to me; the larger the caliber, the louder the bang and the greater chance of me damaging my hearing. Hearing protection seems impractical for a number of reasons in a defensive situation.
I agree with you, Hearing protection is impracticle in the scenario you described.
I would not be too concerned, in my experiance I would go for a caliber you can count on to end the engagement as quickly as possible.
Going from a deep sleep to redcon 1 is hard enough. Use the Gun and Caliber you know will end the fight and understand it may cost you some hearing loss.
Wear them on the range, at work and in any noise rich enviroment, but I do think you are waaaay over thinking this.

 

[Jefpainthorse]

your right..you are over thinking this.

You won't ruin your ears if you have to fire 'in anger'. Do what you need to do... and do it NOW.

 

[trultemor]

Supressor...

 

[Mr.Davis]

your right..you are over thinking this.

You won't ruin your ears if you have to fire 'in anger'. Do what you need to do... and do it NOW.

:facepalm:

Your emotional state will not protect your ears from the physical damage of an indoors gunshot.

Stop spreading dangerously bad information. Are you going to pay for the hearing aids of those who take your foolish advice?

 

[Izzy77]

if you have time fine, if not, also fine.

do what you have to, worry later.

 

[NMGonzo]

cheap set of the electronic ear muffs right where you keep your home firearm(s). Put on, turn em up, and you can hear ANY little noise. Protects you if you have to fire. I think I got some for $29 on sale at cabelas or some other online store a while back.

I am getting a pair tomorrow.

 

[JohnKSa]

I recommend that if you're going to get a set that might be used in a critical situation that you make sure that it is good quality and that it provides normal binaural hearing so you can locate sounds normally while using the muffs.

Some of the cheaper sets may not provide stereo hearing and you won't be able to locate sounds like you normally would.

Also avoid sets with a separate volume control for each ear. Again, unless they're properly adjusted they may interfere with your ability to locate sounds normally.

 

[Max C.]

Modern earplugs are getting really amazing. I have a pair (will have to look up the brand) that I take to bars that play live music and recently used them during a long drive where I had a splitting headache (usually not a good idea but it was 100 miles of mostly straight, 80-90MPH freeway driving at 2AM so I figured I'd be ok) and they completely removed the road noise while preserving important sounds like sirens once I got off the freeway.

At the range they perform equally well.

 

[docsleepy]

The ones I have are

Caldwell E-Max Low-Profile Muffs

which are about $35 for a set. They are stereo, but they don't have individual adjustments. They seem to work fine for me. However, at the range, if there are a zillion crickets, it comes across sorta like "static" rather than crickets. A more expensive set might be better.

I also wear them when reloading and I can hear everything around me.

They just "blank out" if a sound too loud comes through, but they return very very quickly.

they are great for teaching people at the range, also. My wife is a tiny bit hard of hearing, so put her in normal earmuffs and communiction is gone. Use THESE and we can still communicate.

I'm sure there are better ones, but these did seem to fill the bill for me. They use two AAA batteries. I put some cheap alkaline in there and I'm still on my original set after maybe 2 months of owning them, used off and on. Buy one set, put alkalines in it, leave it near your safe [or other storage place].

 

[Jefpainthorse]

:facepalm:

Your emotional state will not protect your ears from the physical damage of an indoors gunshot.

Stop spreading dangerously bad information. Are you going to pay for the hearing aids of those who take your foolish advice?

:facepalm:

"Your emotional state will not protect your ears from the physical damage of an indoors gunshot.

Stop spreading dangerously bad information. Are you going to pay for the hearing aids of those who take your foolish advice? "

Point taken... Next time I need to engage a gremlin we will take the time to install ear plugs. The ER doc will no doubt give me an "atta boy" regarding hearing conservation whilst he removes lead or sews up the various holes I many may have received during that encounter.
"Fired in anger"? Not an "emotional state....

 

[texas bulldog]

I have given this some thought, though it is far down my list of HD priorities. Several folks who have used them claim the electronic ear muffs are a good option. Having never used them before, it's an option I need to check out.

I will say that the noise and blast (and subsequent disorientation, deafness, and blindness) of .357 magnum is one of factors I considered when I switched my primary HD handgun from a S&W 586 to a 1911. The magnum is much higher pressure than the .45 ACP round. Certainly both are capable of causing hearing damage, but the lower pressure .45 is much less likely to impact my ability to continue the fight after the first volley.