Home invasion cut short
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Sergei Mosin
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Interesting thing to me was this passage:
"He kept coming at me, closer and closer, so I was backing up to the doorway," Stewart recalled. "At that point, I have a laser on the gun, so I pushed the red button and pointed it at his chest. At that moment, I think he realized I did have a gun, and he just froze."
You often hear folks talk about the deterrent effect that laser dot can have on a BG; here's a little bit of anecdotal evidence in support of it.
"He kept coming at me, closer and closer, so I was backing up to the doorway," Stewart recalled. "At that point, I have a laser on the gun, so I pushed the red button and pointed it at his chest. At that moment, I think he realized I did have a gun, and he just froze."
You often hear folks talk about the deterrent effect that laser dot can have on a BG; here's a little bit of anecdotal evidence in support of it.
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
Wow. I'm sure there are some things to learn here.
Points to consider:
1) Holding an intruder at gunpoint?
2) Holding an intruder at gunpoint -- within "2 feet" of the defender?
3) Deterrant effect of a laser sight?
4) Deliberate decision to turn on a laser sight to warn the invader?
5) Walking into an ambush? (Intruder was hiding behind or masked by the cars and surprised the home owner when he stood up. If the crook was armed, the home owner would have been dead before he ever saw the intruder.)
Seems to me a good example of a home owner catching a "not-so bad" guy (petty thief) who really didn't pose a danger. Which is very fortunate for the homeowner.
Points to consider:
1) Holding an intruder at gunpoint?
2) Holding an intruder at gunpoint -- within "2 feet" of the defender?
3) Deterrant effect of a laser sight?
4) Deliberate decision to turn on a laser sight to warn the invader?
5) Walking into an ambush? (Intruder was hiding behind or masked by the cars and surprised the home owner when he stood up. If the crook was armed, the home owner would have been dead before he ever saw the intruder.)
Seems to me a good example of a home owner catching a "not-so bad" guy (petty thief) who really didn't pose a danger. Which is very fortunate for the homeowner.
fuzzyjon79
Member
It's amazing how fast spines can turn yellow when a law abiding citizen exercises their second amendment rights!
MachIVshooter
Member
This
Had the crook been a violent man, this could have had a very tragic ending. Homeowner did just about everything wrong from a tactics standpoint.
This article has me mixed on lasers. Personally, I HATE it when people use them at the range, they are incredibly distracting and often dance across my target, etc. But I have to admit there is a certain advantage to being able to project the approximate POI onto the target, and there does seem to be a deterrent effect at least with some bad guys.
While a light or laser is a give-away as to your status and position, I'm not entirely convinced they are bad things either.
Would appreciate more thoughts.
While a light or laser is a give-away as to your status and position, I'm not entirely convinced they are bad things either.
Would appreciate more thoughts.
ForumSurfer
Member
And it is equally amazing how violent and swift a determined felon can be. This story could have ended much differently. If anyone thinks all those guys in prison or county lock-up will turn and run at the sight of a gun, then they are sadly mistaken.
I tend to agree with this.
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
I once (or twice) posted something along the lines that, if you go looking for "trouble" you are basically already deciding that the "trouble" you're looking for is not a threat to you. If what you're investigating is a serious threat to your life it is suicidal to go stumbling into trouble's grasp, as you will absolutely be at a grave disadvantage of surprise, cross-fire, blind corners, positional inferiority, and the fact that while you (a law-abiding citizen) must take the time to identify and evaluate before you shoot, a violent criminal can shoot without concern for the niceties of laws, ethics, collateral damage or repercussions.
In essence you're saying that whatever you're going to investigate MUST be no threat. So, taking that to it's logical extreme, you might as well NOT go investigate it anyway.
In essence you're saying that whatever you're going to investigate MUST be no threat. So, taking that to it's logical extreme, you might as well NOT go investigate it anyway.
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
...But, as this homeowner hasn't even considered, it is much better to be lucky, than wrong. 
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
There are lots of threads here on that. You could search on the terms "Don't clear your house" for one.
Long and short of it is, yes. Barricade, use your advantage of position and cover. Observe with your ears, and eyes if possible, from your safe area. Figure our what you might be confronting before you do anything else. Let your dog go figure out if there's a threat or the wind just knocked over something. In essence, dont' DIE for your television.
The issue gets complicated as some folks have home layouts that are tactically nightmarish -- kids on other floors or opposite ends of the house, for example. Sometimes figuring out how you should really respond takes a bit of planning and reconfiguring until you rid yourself of big holes in your defensive plan.
Fred Fuller
Moderator Emeritus
what does one do when one hears a strange noise in their house or garage?
Any strange noise in this house is most likely one of the dogs moving around. Which is why we don't have to worry about human-caused strange noises in this house.
For anyone who doesn't have dogs, consider what you heard and keep listening for a bit. Hear anything else odd or different? Is what you're hearing indicative of human activities? If so, are you sure you really want to go see what it is?
There are inexpensive, unobtrusive battery powered single-door magnetic reed switch alarms that will tell you if a door is opened when the alarm is switched on. Sticking one on a couple of internal doors and adding turning them on/off to your go-to-bed/get-up routines isn't much of a big deal.
Interior plug-in or battery powered motion activated lighting devices are widely available and not at all expensive. And they come in handy if you have to move around yourself at night when there are no suspicious noises to investigate. There are portable motion detector alarms available as well, but too many of the inexpensive motion detector alarms in my experience have too many false alarms to be useful.
Thing is, there are tools that can help determine whether you really have anything to be concerned with. Why not use the tools that are available?
Any strange noise in this house is most likely one of the dogs moving around. Which is why we don't have to worry about human-caused strange noises in this house.
For anyone who doesn't have dogs, consider what you heard and keep listening for a bit. Hear anything else odd or different? Is what you're hearing indicative of human activities? If so, are you sure you really want to go see what it is?
There are inexpensive, unobtrusive battery powered single-door magnetic reed switch alarms that will tell you if a door is opened when the alarm is switched on. Sticking one on a couple of internal doors and adding turning them on/off to your go-to-bed/get-up routines isn't much of a big deal.
Interior plug-in or battery powered motion activated lighting devices are widely available and not at all expensive. And they come in handy if you have to move around yourself at night when there are no suspicious noises to investigate. There are portable motion detector alarms available as well, but too many of the inexpensive motion detector alarms in my experience have too many false alarms to be useful.
Thing is, there are tools that can help determine whether you really have anything to be concerned with. Why not use the tools that are available?
Godsgunman
Member
tuj,
My answer to your question is this, and it's just how I see it; right or not so right. If I were to think I heard a BG in the garage the first thing I would do is grab my gun and have my wife have the phone ready to call the police. I would then do a visual check of the halls, the garage is close to our room so its easy to do without leaving the safety of my room. If I am convinced it is a bad guy and not an animal then the wife will call the cops as I position myself in a way that if the BG desides to enter the house I can mount a quick defense. If he stays in the garage, well the police are already on their way and they can bust him for breaking and entering. If it turns out just to be an animal, well no harm no foul. The idea is to not cause an unnecessary confrontation by physically going into the garage and removing the safety of a locked door between you and the BG. No material thing I own is worth risking my own life or even the thiefs life. Now once they break down the door and enter the house, its a completely new ball game.
My answer to your question is this, and it's just how I see it; right or not so right
. If I were to think I heard a BG in the garage the first thing I would do is grab my gun and have my wife have the phone ready to call the police. I would then do a visual check of the halls, the garage is close to our room so its easy to do without leaving the safety of my room. If I am convinced it is a bad guy and not an animal then the wife will call the cops as I position myself in a way that if the BG desides to enter the house I can mount a quick defense. If he stays in the garage, well the police are already on their way and they can bust him for breaking and entering. If it turns out just to be an animal, well no harm no foul. The idea is to not cause an unnecessary confrontation by physically going into the garage and removing the safety of a locked door between you and the BG. No material thing I own is worth risking my own life or even the thiefs life. Now once they break down the door and enter the house, its a completely new ball game.towerdog
Member
There are good points raised here on the what to do if you hear a strange noise. I will share a shortend version of my personal experience with a strange noise.
I travel a lot for work one weekend I was home it was a cool summer evenning and I was awoke by a strange noise listened for a while heard it again this went on for a while as I was slowly grabbing my .45. I did not want to go through my house because the noise was clearly in the garage. I opend my slider door to my upstairs deck from my bedroom, climbed onto the roof made my way to the garage and just about fell off of the roof when I was suprised by a family of raccoons.
I think I startled them as much as they did me. I wished I had a dog that night.
Some of you will get a good laugh out of that one I guess
I travel a lot for work one weekend I was home it was a cool summer evenning and I was awoke by a strange noise listened for a while heard it again this went on for a while as I was slowly grabbing my .45. I did not want to go through my house because the noise was clearly in the garage. I opend my slider door to my upstairs deck from my bedroom, climbed onto the roof made my way to the garage and just about fell off of the roof when I was suprised by a family of raccoons.
I think I startled them as much as they did me. I wished I had a dog that night.Some of you will get a good laugh out of that one I guess
SSN Vet
Member
read the blog at the bottom of the news story....
the homeowner posts himself and thanks everybody for their support....
then he goes on to say that after the perp was caught the next night, they learned that he was A CONVICTED SEX OFFENDER.
Shocker!
So I hope you realize that if you can get on your garage roof from your upstairs deck, someone can get to your upstairs deck from your garage roof.There are good points raised here on the what to do if you hear a strange noise. I will share a shortend version of my personal experience with a strange noise.
I travel a lot for work one weekend I was home it was a cool summer evenning and I was awoke by a strange noise listened for a while heard it again this went on for a while as I was slowly grabbing my .45. I did not want to go through my house because the noise was clearly in the garage. I opend my slider door to my upstairs deck from my bedroom, climbed onto the roof made my way to the garage and just about fell off of the roof when I was suprised by a family of raccoons.
Some of you will get a good laugh out of that one I guess
At that distance, it is incredibly dangerous! The homeowner had let the criminal into his "kill zone." A person who has practiced at "gun takeaways" could have taken the homeowner's gun and turned it on him.
It is well known that convicts and certain gangsta sets practice just this method.
Glad the homeowner is okay, but he is lucky.
L.W.
I agree, I have learned much here from this. I have two garage man doors, one to the outside(always locked) and one to the inside. I will now lock the one to the house, and may God help the one that comes through either door, they will need to deal with the dogs first and then my 12ga last.
ForumSurfer
Member
This has been discussed several times to death and you'll get a mixed opinion.
I'd let him go. Guns don't magically scare people. The guy may lay there or he may get twitchy and decide to put up a fight. Am I to shoot this now unarmed guy in the back or let him get up as I holster and fight him? Now I have got an unarmed bad guy face down, no weapon and shot in the back 4 times. That one may require a lawyer and more money than I have, forcing me to pay for a lawsuit for the rest of my life.
I also don't want to be within 10 feet. Too close for comfort.
I'm also not trained on detaining someone as the police are.
The only way I would detain someone is if they magically fell on the floor crying as I was drawing on them and they clearly knew I wasn't standing between them and freedom (the door).
allaroundhunter
Member
I would attempt to keep him where he is by telling him to get down on the ground. If he makes a break for the door, let him go. If he decides to put up a fight, you wouldn't be shooting him in the back. And if he decides to fight me instead of obeying or fleeing, I will fire to defend myself. I also will not stay 10 ft away from him (much less 2).
ForumSurfer
Member
I'm glad you said you'd move. I've done some mock exercises with a friend who does amateur mma just for giggles. You'd be surprised how much steam he can build up just getting up off the floor. If he does charge from the floor, his shoulder will stay low because he will try to cover as much ground between the two of you as fast as possible...so you're likely to shoot him in the back and shoulder repeatedly (every time we tried this, I hit him in the head, shoulder or back with an airsoft pistol). It would probably end up being a good shoot, but I'd stand a really strong chance of needing a lawyer to defend those multiple back shots.
If he isn't laying down, I will tell him to run. What I learned from just some amateurs like us practicing some potential up-close fighting....is that I don't want to ever do it! That magic 21 foot circle is real.
Unless I was moving, I'd never draw and fire soon enough to hit him. If I was moving, he'd still hit me within 3 to 6 shots. He may die quick or bleed out an hour later, either way they have time to put hands on me.
mdauben
Member
Closest I've come to experiencing a B&E was several years ago when I was living in a fairly upscale apartment. One night, I woke up to the sound of people outside and someone trying to unlock my front door. They went away and I thought it was just someone who was at the wrong door. A few minutes later I hear someone trying to open the door to my second floor balcony. I had been out there that night, and forgot to lock the door when I came in, but luckily I did flip the bar-lock so they could not open the door.
At this point, I walked into the living room, with a .357 in my hand, and yelled through the door asking what the *** was going on. Turns out it was a drunken couple, who thought this was her sister's apartment, looking for somewhere to mess around. It was the guy on my balcony, so I told him sharply that they obviously had the wrong apartment, he apologized and they left. I don't think he ever saw the gun in my hand, so he never realizing how close he came to getting a hole blown through his chest.
Looking back, I definitely think I did the wrong thing and should have just called the police and waited in my bedroom. Luckily for me it was a false alarm but it could have ended up very badly for both me and the erstwhile second story man.
I used to live above a check cashing business, in a commercial property on the main street. The complex, with an enclosed/hidden parking area would draw a lot of different trespassers: from homeless people looking to sleep, kids rummaging through someone else's backpack, teens smoking weed, stealing beer from neighboring store, thieves/burglars and and one near mugging out front. All hours of day and night.
One evening we heard a couple of loud bangs while still light, but just hoped it was the neighbors. It was actually a burglar breaking windows downstairs around the front to access the shops. A while Later, I thought I heard something in the parking lot-opened the door to look down from the balcony, but saw/heard nothing while watching quietly. 5 minutes later, back in my house, an alarm goes off down the street which I called in ( i learn later the police responded, eventually ID the guy).
About 1 or 2 am, I wake up realizing I had left the lamp on earlier, and that Now it was dark, determining that the power was out. I called the police explaining my concern, adding that we thought we heard someone breaking in earlier. I also explained that if there was possibly an intruder, I didn't think I should be the one to confront him. They blew me off.
It wasnt until the third or fourth call, when I had gone out to find evidence that cars had been broken into, items about the lot, and the power and phone ripped out along the side of the building, that our police finally responded to begin investigating. They were also kind enough to assure me that if I felt there was an intruder, that I should call them and not feel obligated to confront him ( using my own words to them a while back on the phone). I suppose it was his way of admitting he was wrong.
By 4-5am, the shop owners were arriving to take over, and I was allowed to flip the breakers to ensure my wife had a hot shower to go to work.
The whole point is that sometimes you can not know if the danger is real even when it is, or if the police will bother to come based on your suspicion, even if they should. And you have to factor that in to your decision to call.
Eventually, I learned to suspect every noise I heard. I also learned that sometimes they get to your door without ever hearing them (the apt. had a big picture window at knee level-anyone could bust it and step through). It isn't unreasonable to bear a handgun at all times about the apartment.
One evening we heard a couple of loud bangs while still light, but just hoped it was the neighbors. It was actually a burglar breaking windows downstairs around the front to access the shops. A while Later, I thought I heard something in the parking lot-opened the door to look down from the balcony, but saw/heard nothing while watching quietly. 5 minutes later, back in my house, an alarm goes off down the street which I called in ( i learn later the police responded, eventually ID the guy).
About 1 or 2 am, I wake up realizing I had left the lamp on earlier, and that Now it was dark, determining that the power was out. I called the police explaining my concern, adding that we thought we heard someone breaking in earlier. I also explained that if there was possibly an intruder, I didn't think I should be the one to confront him. They blew me off.
It wasnt until the third or fourth call, when I had gone out to find evidence that cars had been broken into, items about the lot, and the power and phone ripped out along the side of the building, that our police finally responded to begin investigating. They were also kind enough to assure me that if I felt there was an intruder, that I should call them and not feel obligated to confront him ( using my own words to them a while back on the phone). I suppose it was his way of admitting he was wrong.
By 4-5am, the shop owners were arriving to take over, and I was allowed to flip the breakers to ensure my wife had a hot shower to go to work.
The whole point is that sometimes you can not know if the danger is real even when it is, or if the police will bother to come based on your suspicion, even if they should. And you have to factor that in to your decision to call.
Eventually, I learned to suspect every noise I heard. I also learned that sometimes they get to your door without ever hearing them (the apt. had a big picture window at knee level-anyone could bust it and step through). It isn't unreasonable to bear a handgun at all times about the apartment.
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