Home SD when little ones are a concern

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Wile E Coyote

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Looking for your 'what would you do' ideas or suggestions regarding handling the typical late-night home intruder scenario when your younguns are sleeping on the other side of the house from the master bed?

Single level, with one hallway feeding all the kiddo's doors from off of a great room. Between the master and that hallway, are 3 different exterior doors if one includes the garage.

I ask this question to contrast the otherwise sound advice to hole-up in the master behind a strong door and let the po-po clear my house. You fellas surely understand that a parent just couldn't/wouldn't do that. I haven't seen this covered in the short time I've been poking around THR, so any sage advice is appreciated.
I feel I fully understand the heightened importance of potential target ID, along with how unprepared a lone homeowner is at properly clearing a structure while flying high with adrenaline. I'm just not gonna put any BG between me and my younguns.

PS, Any BG caught intending harm on my family better hope it's me that confronts them. Lord help him or her if my 103 lb wifey thinks her babies are in danger! hehe;)
 
All I can say is “Train, Train, Train!!”
You need to train so that when you *are* flying high on adrenaline you’ve already pre-wired the necessary motor-reflexes to clear your own home without thinking too hard about it. You should be able to clear your home reflexively and instead let your mind focus on positive target ID. Everyone’s home is different so it’s important to practice, practice, practice a house clearing, with an unloading firearm, so you understand your particular home’s layout, its sightlines, its cover, its potential chokepoints, etc. Then you should practice some more, at night, again with an unloaded firearm, and whatever light source you intend to use. Practice “Cutting the Pie” on each room. If your children are old enough, teach them to respond to your verbal commands especially at night, when they’re groggy and can’t see you. They’re responses should be practiced too in way that’s fun and doesn’t alarm them (“OK kids, tonight we’re going to practice daddy yelling and screaming at you to hit the floor” - NOT). This is hard since they probably don’t pay attention to you when they are fully awake and *can* see you… but that’s just kids.
You should consider taking some classes in tactical response, especially those that have a focus on low-light shooting, like anything from Gunsite (and their Close Quarters pistol class), or FrontSight’s “Night” classes.
In my opinion, you have the right attitude. It’s the “combat mindset” that you are your family’s last best defense and will do whatever is necessary to protect them. You just need a proper, and practiced plan that puts your family behind you and your weapon in the most safe and expeditious manner possible. Practice having your wife back you up as you move safely through the house towards your children. Your focus should be front sight and target identification. Her focus should be corralling the children and dialing 911 on the cellphone. You wife should train too to pickup where you left off in the unfortunate event that you go down for some reason. And remember, the best laid and practiced plans go to pot in the middle of the night…so train for contingencies and be mentally prepared to adapt to the situation.
Honestly, some years ago in my youth I was “anti-gun”…until I had children. Children change your perspective on many things. I know exactly how you feel.
 
Welcome coyote,

Just some ideas of the top of my head, after I drew a diagram of your house as you described it.

First, think layered defense.
Start with the outside, lighting, clearing brush etc
i.e. an open area they cant sneak into.
then More lighting
then alarm all doors and windows, after the have been "Hardened"
Then a dog that yaps at anything

dial 911 at the earlieast possible moment


MAKE A PLAN

then have some conversations with the family (make sure the wife and kids are trained to do their part of the plan) and create a plan and some code words

The choke point seems to be at the end of the hall between you and the kids
focus on that in your plan

None of this is static and must be revised as you think more about it

You notice I did not mention weapons, thats your decision and not mine, and it is the top layer, get a good couple of bottom layers going first, and you wont have to default to weapons, I hope

I just scratched the surface, others will be more knowledgeable and helpful.

Again welcome, and get busy
Doc
 
One thing I might consider is installing an alarm system and having drills (if the children are old enough to grasp the concept). You hear this, you hit the deck and hide until I come and get you.

That way you know where your kids are, and you are less likely to have children between you and the burglar. I worry about kids coming out of their rooms to see what's going on, only to put them at greater risk (perhaps ending up a hostage, putting themselves in between me and the target, or perhaps ending up a hostage). Just my .02.
 
That’s a good question. Its one I’ve thought about and talked to my wife about (not her favorite topic, along the same lines as “We need to make a will incase something happens to both of us.”).

In my mind, there are several different things that need to be in “the plan” to make it work.

1. Early detection that BG is trying to get in – more warning is more time to react. This is as simple motion lights outside, locking all doors and windows, and setting the burglar alarm before going to bed. Another good tool is a dog, it doesn’t have to be mean and vicious. I think with kids a friendly and barks is the best, the kids will love him and you will have a watch dog.

2. Lights – you want to see who is there, mistaken identity is not an option. Night lights in the hall help too (the kind that light up at dark and if the power goes out are a good idea no mater what). I keep a good strong flashlight on my night stand. I also have a good quality light mounted on my gun (I don’t need a third hand to hold the light).

3. A way to STOP the BG – collateral damage (over penetration) and access are serous concerns. I know this is a point of great debate on other treads, so lets keep it to the basics. You need to be able to get to your gun, but not let the kids have access to it. How you do that is up to you just remember kids get into just about everything. The other issue is what you shoot (gun and ammo) and how your shoot. You need to have the stopping power but not something that will go through the house and hurt anyone you care about. If you do have to shoot make sure of your target. Always assume there are more BGs than you see.

4. Call for help – your only job is to protect your family. Once you get to the kids nothing else is as important as protecting them, your already the hero. No need to go “hunting” for the BG, that’s what the police can/will do.

5. Every needs to know the plan and what to do. Kids hind low in the closet or under bed, what ever works for your situation. You and the wife get to the kids by any and all means possible.

Practice and be prepared and God willing none of us will ever have to test our plan.

Every one know “never get between a momma bear and her cubs”… I think the BG has a much better chance with a bear than my wife.
 
Thanks fellas, keep it comin'.
Along with the more common drills for fire evac, I could see incorporating other scenarios as well. For the immediate future, they'll have to be very simplified, as the kidlets are very young.

I'll have a hard sale convincing the wife that full-on drills are really necessary, but perhaps gentle reasoning will prevail.
Drills for me will just be like getting back on a familiar horse (ex-military). I also have to consider the times when the wife will be the sole defender, so I've got a lot to think about.
 
I agree that once you reach your kids and they are secure, that is your place. Especially for your wife. A women defending her children is a picture every jury can sympathize with.
 
If the wife is a hadr sell, enlist her girl friends, family, whatever, the old "do you want your children hurt because you didnt do your part thing". Harsh but effective
 
Thank you Lee, for your kind direction. I appreciate your patience with yet another newby. I didn't bother to search, as I see only 2 pages of threads in this S&T board.
Should I assume all threads of a certain vintage automatically fall off page 2 to a separately searched/accessed archive? I'm a regular visitor of several forums in very similar format, that all have 100+ pages in each board/ sub-forum.

To get back OT, I just got back from a short range session with my wifey, who handled both long guns and hand guns awkwardly, albeit safely. I'm taking it slow, and keeping it fun with highly reactive targets. She even broke few hand-tossed clays with my 12yo son's 20 ga Charles Daly youth model shottie. I was thrilled she jumped in and tried out my hobby, and likely had more fun than she did, haha. After the fundamentals are solid, we'll work on SD techniques as a team, and while alone.
 
This is close to my heart since I, like many others here, have kids.

A general outline based on what you've said would be, for me anyway,
1) harden the exterior. Good locks on everything, minimize entry points, everything you've always heard makes burglars look elsewhere.
2) Alarm system. Wire up any place conceivable for entry. Myself, I've also got motion sensors in the hallways if they've watched a Bond movie recently and remember how to defeat a door/window alarm. Yes, that was sarcasm. Yes, I do have motion sensors in the halls.
3) the safe room is likely to be the great room or one of the kids bedrooms. Whichever will fortify the easiest and is appropriate for the ages of your kids. If they are capable of running to X bedroom, do this. If not, your place will have to be in the great room cutting off access to your kids. Right now, we have one son and his room is the safe room. He isn't able to reliably move quickly from one place to another. He's only four, so Mom and Dad are going to him. When # 2 comes along in July, the safe room will no longer be a default. Our house is laid out with two bedrooms at the very top of the stairs and one at the end of the hall. Currently our bedroom will be abandoned, the second at the stairs is an office, and our son sleeps at the back of the hall. Another child means using the other room at the head of the stairs. My place will have to be the top of the stairs while my wife gathers the kids. You may have to compromise the ideal for the practical in your case.
4) Use a shotgun or high velocity carbine rifle. They actually penetrate less than most handgun rounds. This will be an issue with a house full of kids and you possibly in another room.
 
Wile... I recently proposed a similar situation. I live in a capecod, kids are upstairs, I am downstairs at the end of a hall. So, there are two ways in... breezeway which means I step into hallway right in thier path or the front door, and they have direct access to the stairs where my kids are.

I have a dog, new locks and good exterior lighting but I also now have a plan A) Step into hallway with 12 ga shotgun. If BG is present I clear a path to where I can retreat to the stairs going up to my children.

Thats all I have so far, and I am not sure what to do if BG is near (4 or 5 feet from by bedroom door....)

But, it is just plan A)

One of the drawbacks of being a parent... but... the benefits always outweigh the bad parts.

I am considering bringing some plywood to the range with me in the spring, and setting up obsticles that are similar to my home, so I have practice going through an entrance and shooting.

I will watch this thread closely...

1911 guy.... It is only a skirt if you wear something under it...

Leroy
 
Simple. Three things to do:

-Obey the 4 rules of gun safety.
-Gather your children and return to a safe location to wait for the police.
-Kill anything that threatens your children. Not wound, not stop. Kill them. When it comes to your childrens' safety, you need to have the mentality of an angry wolverine. Sucks to be the bad guy, but he's the one that tried to put you in a position to choose between his safety and your children's. It should be an easy choice. Put that M-Fer in the ground. Fight as viciously as you can.

It sounds heartless and bloodthirsty, but we are talking about your children's safety. Mother bears are not lenient on this subject and you shouldn't be either. Be at least as vicious as a mother grizzly. More so, if possible. There is a reason that nature tells us to do this. You don't want to be at your kid's funeral wondering if it's your fault for worrying about what the legal consequences of shooting the intruder would be. See red. Unleash the beast. Fight tooth and nail until that threat is gone. It's for the children.
 
yes, it is something that i have considered. but, fortuneatly for me, my kids bedrooms are quite close to ours. and i have a clear veiw from the stairwell of the hall leading to all of them. so if an intruder comes into our home, AND makes it past the pitbull, i should have a clear, unobstructed veiw of him as he draws near. now, all i need is a 2" thick aluminum plate to mount on the top of the stairwell for a bullet sheild! in your case, if you can afford one, i would get something like a brinks alarm system. at least then you would know if someone enters right away, instead of after he has made it 1/2 way through your house. the really tough part would be if he grabs one of your kids to act as a hostage or sheild as he does his thing in your home. then, you would simply be up the creek! have you thought about trading rooms with one of your kids? that way, you could get to the b.g. BEFORE he had a chance to get to your kids.
 
New show called The Best Defense on the outdoor channel showed different weapons penetration the other night and tested 9mm, 45 acp, .223, 12 ga. buckshot and birdshot. The birdshot is the only one that did not penetrate the "hallway". So if you are asking from a what round should I use I will tell you I loaded my defense 12 ga. with birdshot.
 
Children's bedrooms

Is there a problem with having kids lock their doors? The more I think about it; I don't like the idea of them living with that "idea" and, it would slowdown my access to them. It would, however, also isolate them, somewhat, from a BG. You know what? This conversation really p...es me off. I know its necessary but still........who are these slime balls we're talking about? Where do they come from, and why are they alive? Sorry for the rant.........
 
Security in the home starts with boring things like dead bolt locks, reinforced door jambs, motion detecting lights and alarm systems. You want to delay entry long enough so that you can get to the children and bring them back to the master bedroom.

Good physical security doesn't have to be obtrusive and unattractive. You don't need to slow them down for long. Unless you live in the Vanderbuilt Mansion, the distance from the master bedroom to the children isn't going to be that far unless the bedrooms are on different levels.

If you think that you are going to wake from a sound sleep and CQB down the hall and rescue the kids once the intruders are in the house, you are kidding yourself. If they are inside, it's too late.

If the children are old enough to participate in a family fire drill, they are old enough to participate in an intruder drill. Alarm goes off and kids head for the master bedroom.

who are these slime balls we're talking about?
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Most likely they are someone you know, maybe even family. The great majority of home invasion victims are people who are in the drug trade or other criminal enterprise, people who keep a large amount of cash or other valuables in their house and that fact is widely known, people who have had a relationship with someone who lives a criminal lifestyle and has upset that person.

If you don't live a criminal lifestyle or hang around with people who do, keep large amounts of cash or other valuables and let everyone know, the chance of you ever having to deal with that scenario is pretty slim.

Everyone in these threads focuses on firearms, but if there are armed people in your home looking to do you and yours harm and you are reacting to it, you are already pretty far behind the curve. Best to react before they make entry and that means boring unglamorous things like physical security measures.
 
Funny, that's what I tell people. ;)

Also be sure you have a cell-phone, because they might cut your land-line wire. A good flashlight is a must. And it is far better to make them come to you rather then the other way around. Someone framed in a door is an easy target at short range.
 
Jeff says.... "You want to delay entry long enough so that you can get to the children and bring them back to the master bedroom."

Jeff, where I am on a different floor then the kids, it is reasonable to make the safe room, or rally point the kids room?

Best feeling I ever got was putting in new locks and motion detectors. I know this will sound funny, but because we lose power a lot everyone in my house has thier own flashlight. We are somewhat proud of our flashlights.

Guns just make us feel like we can handle anything that happens. You are right though, prevention is the best security.

Leroy

Leroy
 
Jeff, where I am on a different floor then the kids, it is reasonable to make the safe room, or rally point the kids room?
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Sure. If the kids are too young to move toward you then it only makes sense for you to go to them and hole up there if it's a long distance back to the master bedroom. Just put the solid core door on the kids room. It doesn't matter where you hole up at as long as it's secure and you are all together.
 
Just because you have 3 points of access between you & the Carpet Rockets doesn't mean that's all you have to consider. Windows in the midget rooms? How about the hallway? Anything on the other end of that hallway?

I am much more a fan of going & getting the kids & having their room be the safe room. I'm not going to go from my room, to theirs & back again. You were lucky enough to get from A to B the first time. Don't push your luck.

You could consider putting locks on the doors for your children. Lock the doors after bed time & have them all keyed the same. Keep that key some place handy like on the door knob for your room. But then you run into the issue of slowing down your access to the kids. And that's not a good way for a family to live- locking the kids away at bedtime.

With the layout of your house there is no perfect, or even good answer. It's going to suck regardless. That said I would consider the following:

When alerted, get the wife, arm up as appropriate & run, to make yourself a difficult target to hit, as fast as you can, from your room to the closest kid room. Plan the best straight-line, unobstructed route so you're not dodging a couch or table, etc. When you make it to the first room you essentially provide rear security while wife gathers up Thing 1. She leaves that room & moves to gather Things 2, 3, etc. while you're pulling security. If you have one kid that can get to the farthest room on his/her own power send them so momma can take care of other(s) that need more tending. Make the last room your safe room with the appropriate improvements/gear. Consider the age of the kids & which rooms you want them in. The oldest child in the first room you come to could help gather up other kids &/or help you with security. Keep in mind the age, activity level & reach of the kid in the farthest room. Will he/she tinker with your safe room set up out of curiosity or because he/she wants to make sure the other kids don't "Invade my privacy" by locking the door? Either would be bad news.

Unfortunately any element of surprise will be lost, but the situation is what it is. When my wife & I were looking at houses we immediately ruled out any that were set up as you described for this reason. Likewise, we'll have to move if we have more than one because there are only two bedrooms on the upper floor of our place & I'm not about to have the main entrance & a flight of stairs between me & my child. The option of moving, in my opinion, would be as valid here as it is in the "My neighborhood scares 50 Cent" threads.

If you can make it up to CO in March SouthNarc is putting on his Armed Movement in Structures class which would help you sort some of this stuff out.
 
Thanks again for the continued input. I'm still with you guys. Of course, proactive is better than reactive, and repulsion at the perimeter would be ideal. I can cover hardening my perimeter better, I'm mostly looking for advice for when/if that fails and I get a BG in my living room. I've considered and rejected locks on each kid's door (3 diff doors) so perhaps I'll make one of the kids' rooms the safe room. As noted, I'll just have to cross the house once, then.
 
You could consider putting locks on the doors for your children. Lock the doors after bed time & have them all keyed the same. Keep that key some place handy like on the door knob for your room. But then you run into the issue of slowing down your access to the kids. And that's not a good way for a family to live- locking the kids away at bedtime.
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I can only imagine how your local Department of Children and Family Services or whatever social service agency in your area that looks into child abuse would feel about you locking the kids in their rooms at night. As a matter of fact, I don't have to imagine hard at all to see them attempting to file criminal charges or take the children from you in a civil proceeding. Besides that, there is the danger of being unable to get to them in the event of a fire, which is far more likely to happen then an armed home invasion.

How many times do you think you would have to rehearse this plan before you we confident that you'd remember to grab the key every time?

When alerted, get the wife, arm up as appropriate
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It's 0330, you and the family are all sleeping soundly when the burglar alarm starts blaring. How long does it take you to wake from a sound sleep and arm yourselves? How does that time mesh with the time it would take someone with rudimentary tools to breach your door and gain entry? Any idea?

& run, to make yourself a difficult target to hit, as fast as you can, from your room to the closest kid room.
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Lights on or off? What about obstacles you forgot about,like the book bag with tomorrow's homework and text books laying in the hall because despite being told numerous times to put it up, a child has forgotten? We all think we know our homes and we can run through them in the dark. But having raised three boys, I can tell you that there will likely be obstacles you don't think about even in an uncluttered home. I won't even mention tripping over the cat.......Anything even a chair that wasn't pushed back under the dining room table can trip you up in the dark. Startled from a sound sleep and running through the dark house with a loaded firearm in your hand is a recipe for a bad accident.

Unfortunately any element of surprise will be lost, but the situation is what it is.
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The element of surprise was lost when the alarm went off. Hopefully that surprised the intruders and they are beating a hasty retreat. You might as well assume that contact has been made when the alarm sounds. Even barefoot, you aren't going to run silently in a house. The intruders are going to detect the motion, you probably aren't going to be able to wake the children silently either.

I'd recommend moving quickly and purposefully, but not running. If you are being attacked by a professional crew (unlikely unless you really keeps lots of valuables in your home) who brought tools to breach your door, they will be on you before you ever make out of the master bedroom. If it's more of an amateur operation good reinforced doors and locks, windows high enough to make them use a two man lift or a ladder to access and other physical security measures should give you enough time that you won't need to run.
 
Wile E,

Get yourself and your wife trained. As a basic level class, the NRA's Personal Protection In The Home is a good starter. See http://www.nrahq.org/education/training/basictraining.asp for a description and class locator. The class itself from a live instructor is the best exposure to the training IMHO, but if you just can't manage to get to one, there's a DVD of the classroom presentation for sale at http://materials.nrahq.org/go/product.aspx?productid=ES 26840 . Louis Awerbuck's Safe At Home video is worth your while also IMHO- http://www.paladin-press.com/product/129/73 .

Odds are it'll never happen to you. But, as I always say, it isn't the odds which matter- it's the STAKES. You're more likely to have a fire, or a weather emergency or some other kind of natural disaster to cope with, depending on where you live. You need inclusive family emergency plans to deal with any reasonable hazard. And you need to have the preparations in place that will support your plans, so your response can be basically 'grab and go' without having to burn a lot of time to get moving.

There's no need to be paranoid- it isn't healthy. But realistic planning and preparation isn't paranoia. 'Stuff' does happen. Home invasions do seem to be on the increase from the crime reports I see/hear, even though home invaders are still unlikely to beset the average person. That's a worst-case sort of crime scenario IMHO. But they do happen. It isn't unreasonable to think about them in that sense. A good shotgun at the ready makes as much sense to me as having a fire extinguisher handy. And knowing when and how to use both of them equally well isn't paranoia IMHO.

Do pay attention to the 'layers of security' ideas tossed around here. Make your home a harder target. Making your home fail the selection process as some thug's next mark is the best way to win the encounter.

Stay Safe,

lpl
 
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