Home Visit By the ATF
- Thread starter RioShooter
- Start date
- Status
cassandrasdaddy
Member
- Joined
- Jul 1, 2006
- Messages
- 4,206
When was the last time anyone went to jail for the automobile registration being out of order?
wednesday
at least that i know of.
more alcoa stock for me
wednesday
at least that i know of.
more alcoa stock for me
revolverman357
Member
I do not have any type of ffl or anything other than a LCH in my state. A week ago Friday, someone called my WORK phone and said they were from the ATF and needed to set up a home inspection with me. I told him that as I was at work I did not have the time or the privacy to talk with them at that time and the man said he would get back in touch with me in the near future to set up a visitation.
I am kind of worried, I only have 3 rifles and about 20 handguns. I do reload though and have plenty of powder and primers stored in cabinets in my out building.
So far, I've not heard back.
I am kind of worried, I only have 3 rifles and about 20 handguns. I do reload though and have plenty of powder and primers stored in cabinets in my out building.
So far, I've not heard back.
statelineblues
Member
I have an alternate theory on this - In the last few months the only part of the retail sector reporting a surge in sales seems to be the firearms industry. In fact, there have been several news reports (a couple national ones, IIRC) about this current trend.
And with the reports of bad guys south of the border coming up here to buy guns (one incident happened as far away as Atlanta), the BATFE has started a more aggressive policy towards FFL holders.
I agree with ants and larry_minn - but check the number he gave with the phone book/information.
And definately, let us know what happens - I'm sure the other C&R holders (like me) would be very interested in what Mr. Imfromthegovtandheretohelp has to say.
And with the reports of bad guys south of the border coming up here to buy guns (one incident happened as far away as Atlanta), the BATFE has started a more aggressive policy towards FFL holders.
I agree with ants and larry_minn - but check the number he gave with the phone book/information.
And definately, let us know what happens - I'm sure the other C&R holders (like me) would be very interested in what Mr. Imfromthegovtandheretohelp has to say.
if you don't want to be hassled by the ATF, don't get a FFL. And I'm glad they are checking up on dealers in the border area, cross gun sales from the US into Mexico is a big problem. It only takes a few bad apples to ruin it for the rest of us, more firepower for the anti-gun zealots to support their goal of an AWB, probably put a spin on it and say the availability of guns in the US "fuels" the instability in the Mexican border areas.
ATF doesn't sit around and say, "hmmm, what no name dealer are we gonna harass today, gee let's go pay Joe Blow a visit, he has a C&R license..." They have better things to do.
ATF doesn't sit around and say, "hmmm, what no name dealer are we gonna harass today, gee let's go pay Joe Blow a visit, he has a C&R license..." They have better things to do.
AirForceShooter
Member
Revolverman. I would be calling my local PD. And my Attorney. If the ATF is asking to inspect you are under investigation for either: dealing without a license or gun running.
That's the only way ATF has jurisdiction over you.
AFS
That's the only way ATF has jurisdiction over you.
AFS
TexasRifleman
Moderator Emeritus
Now THAT one sounds like a home robbery setup.
Does your state publish a list of concealed permit holders?
Actually, only a very small number of licensed dealers have been singled out and investigated concerning illegal sales. A lot of guns were and are obtained by straw buyers that have clean records, and easily pass background checks. Unless they are involved in a large number of buys the straw buyers are seldom prosecuted at the federal level.
Gunrunners obtain a substantial number of firearms by burglarizing or robbing gun stores or private homes, and for some unknown reason don’t bother to fill out any paperwork. Critics often point a bony finger at border area gun shows, but the fact of the matter is that these shows are heavily surveillance by law enforcement from many agencies, and from all levels of government. Stories in the mainstream media about sales of full-automatic weapons, rocket launchers, grenades and other military equipment of a similar nature are obviously pure bull droppings.
It should also be noted that gunrunning is frequently associated with drug smuggling, with guns going south and drugs coming north.
Also for reasons that should be clear, local BATF&E spokespersons tend to exaggerate the circumstances in their own self-interest, when reporters, none of which are bright enough to understand they are being taken on a ride, interview them - and of course they prefer anti-gun sensationalism any way they can get it.
There is a problem of course, but the Mexican drug cartels have more then enough financial resources to obtain military class firearms from many sources, and in any quantity they want.
How do I know? Because I live near the border, and have for many years.
moi_self26
Member
I'm sorry, but when a person from any government agency utters words like "don't be concerned" it's usually cause for concern. I think you would be wise to hope for the best, but be prepared for the worst.
outerlimit
Member
That reminds me, I've requested C&R forms from the ATF website twice now in the past few months, still nothing in the mail.
I guess I'll give my government masters a call.
I guess I'll give my government masters a call.
Zach S
Member
Don't worry. An agent that's not with the division that kicks down doors will be by shortly to drop it off.
Wow what a statement. Two thoughts:RioShooter said:
A. the fact that the agent said that, based on what he said, means he's probably telling the truth, however...
B. Saying "I'm not from the division of the same entity that committed ABC evil acts" is like the pit bull's foot saying "Don't be alarmed because I'm not the teeth."
B. Adams
Member
I had an ATF C&R inspection last month, you can read all about it here if you want to.
All in all, it wasn't a big deal at all. It was apparently a routine inspection. She was from the ATF office in Minneapolis (about 300 miles away) and was in the area all week for inspections. I was one of two C&R inspections and about 18 01 FFL's that she was inspecting that week. I've only had my C&R for about 2 years, so I was not expecting a visit, especially this soon.
Apparently C&R inspections are rare, but they do happen, and I would expect them to happen more often in the current political climate. My inspector indicated that I wasn't likely to be inspected again for at least 6 years, but there's no set schedule so it's hard to say.
I don't think your visit is anything to worry about, probably just the ATF wanting to make sure that gun owners know there's someone looking over their shoulder.
All in all, it wasn't a big deal at all. It was apparently a routine inspection. She was from the ATF office in Minneapolis (about 300 miles away) and was in the area all week for inspections. I was one of two C&R inspections and about 18 01 FFL's that she was inspecting that week. I've only had my C&R for about 2 years, so I was not expecting a visit, especially this soon.
Apparently C&R inspections are rare, but they do happen, and I would expect them to happen more often in the current political climate. My inspector indicated that I wasn't likely to be inspected again for at least 6 years, but there's no set schedule so it's hard to say.
I don't think your visit is anything to worry about, probably just the ATF wanting to make sure that gun owners know there's someone looking over their shoulder.
RioShooter
Member
I called the ATF agent today and left a voicemail message. No response, yet.
Keep in mind that if you take your weapons and records to them they are allowing you to outside the regulation. Probably because it is easier for them to do that. And if you are taking weapons into a federal building for an inspection you are conducting official business and exempt for that reason alone under the law.
Also remember that they can come to your address listed on the license once a year and conduct the inspection. If thats your home you open the door to them and anything they see that may raise an alarm is admisable for a return later with a warrant. In other words if they see something they think is fullauto parts they can turn that over to an Agent to get a warrant. The compliance guys are not Agents and dont even carry guns. But they are the eyes and ears of the Agents and they refer cases to the Agents.
In this day and age of paranoia and tinfoil hattery, calling the local office and verifying that they are in fact ATF employees is a prudent course of action whenever they contact you. It should be common sense to do so if they are asking for access to your home and/or records. But to date I cant remember ever hearing of someone targeting a dealer for a strong armed robbery because they are a dealer. It is easier to just break the window and come in while you aren't there. But always verify the legitimacy of the individual if they want any sort of access.
And as stated before, if you are NOT a licensee and the ATF says they want to check your paperwork, something is wrong. Even if you are an NFA owner, something is wrong. Call your lawyer, check your inventory to make sure all the property you own is there and if it is, call the police. Chances are you ARE being cased by a criminal for a buglary or you are under investigation for something. So either make sure you have a safe to secure your property and check the house for forced entry when you come home, or even better get everything out of the house. A dog, an alarm and a safe would help but making it all disappear is even better until things settle out.
But coming by for an un-anounced inspection is nothing out of the ordinary for the industry.
Also remember that they can come to your address listed on the license once a year and conduct the inspection. If thats your home you open the door to them and anything they see that may raise an alarm is admisable for a return later with a warrant. In other words if they see something they think is fullauto parts they can turn that over to an Agent to get a warrant. The compliance guys are not Agents and dont even carry guns. But they are the eyes and ears of the Agents and they refer cases to the Agents.
In this day and age of paranoia and tinfoil hattery, calling the local office and verifying that they are in fact ATF employees is a prudent course of action whenever they contact you. It should be common sense to do so if they are asking for access to your home and/or records. But to date I cant remember ever hearing of someone targeting a dealer for a strong armed robbery because they are a dealer. It is easier to just break the window and come in while you aren't there. But always verify the legitimacy of the individual if they want any sort of access.
And as stated before, if you are NOT a licensee and the ATF says they want to check your paperwork, something is wrong. Even if you are an NFA owner, something is wrong. Call your lawyer, check your inventory to make sure all the property you own is there and if it is, call the police. Chances are you ARE being cased by a criminal for a buglary or you are under investigation for something. So either make sure you have a safe to secure your property and check the house for forced entry when you come home, or even better get everything out of the house. A dog, an alarm and a safe would help but making it all disappear is even better until things settle out.
But coming by for an un-anounced inspection is nothing out of the ordinary for the industry.
I am a former C&R Holder I got my license lost in the ATF shuffle when I moved to KY. The good people at the ATF would tell me every time I called (56 times) that my license had been transferred to my new address and I would receive my new Copy within 3 weeks. This went on for 2 years --I gave up after not being able to use it for the entire length of time. Since I moved back to MO and they got rid of the waiting periods I have no need for it now it's easier to pay an FFL the transfer fees than deal with it.
Also I've heard if you buy 10 handguns in a week you get a visit from one of Santa's Helpers AKA the BATF--Anyone have any proof of this? I've bought 10 long guns in a week and it didn't happen but hey.
Also I've heard if you buy 10 handguns in a week you get a visit from one of Santa's Helpers AKA the BATF--Anyone have any proof of this? I've bought 10 long guns in a week and it didn't happen but hey.
12131
Member
Must be because it's President's Day holiday.
The guy said he wasn't the "kicking in doors" type would mean he's an inspector not an agent. Inspectors do compliance checks and agents do criminal investigations. There may be no inspectors in the Brownsville area and he's from Dallas or some other large city. Is the phone number local? If not that would explain why he hasn't answered his voice mail.
I agree with finding out if the phone numebr is for ATF. I'm a retired LEO and when I got a call from an outside agency I'd say I'm busy and I'll call right back. I'd call who he said he was from and verify.
I agree with finding out if the phone numebr is for ATF. I'm a retired LEO and when I got a call from an outside agency I'd say I'm busy and I'll call right back. I'd call who he said he was from and verify.
I know that for a C&R FFL holder you can request that the inspection be held at the ATF office instead of at your home.
I know, for sure, that while C&R FFL audits are very rare, they do happen from time-to-time. I know that the ATF can demand to inspect a C&R holders bound book.
I believe, but I'm not 100% positive, that they can also demand to see the firearms associated with that bound book so they can cross reference the book entries with the actual firearms. If that is indeed the case, taking the guns to the ATF office for the inspection would be legit.
I used to know this stuff better, but it's been a few years since I had my C&R and I tossed all the relevant regs, etc, when I let the C&R lapse.
Back when I had my C&R, three or four years ago, there were a bunch of reports on the web of ATF doing audits on C&R holders at that time, so I was paying closer attention to the process and what to expect if my name came up.
I remember getting a FFL Newsletter from the ATF later that mentioned that a large number of random compliance audits were performed on C&R holders to ascertain if there was a problem with C&R holders dealing in firearms illegally. If anyone saved their ATF Newsletters from a few years back the info would be there.
I know, for sure, that while C&R FFL audits are very rare, they do happen from time-to-time. I know that the ATF can demand to inspect a C&R holders bound book.
I believe, but I'm not 100% positive, that they can also demand to see the firearms associated with that bound book so they can cross reference the book entries with the actual firearms. If that is indeed the case, taking the guns to the ATF office for the inspection would be legit.
I used to know this stuff better, but it's been a few years since I had my C&R and I tossed all the relevant regs, etc, when I let the C&R lapse.
Back when I had my C&R, three or four years ago, there were a bunch of reports on the web of ATF doing audits on C&R holders at that time, so I was paying closer attention to the process and what to expect if my name came up.
I remember getting a FFL Newsletter from the ATF later that mentioned that a large number of random compliance audits were performed on C&R holders to ascertain if there was a problem with C&R holders dealing in firearms illegally. If anyone saved their ATF Newsletters from a few years back the info would be there.
expvideo
Member
Sounds like a courtesy call. They probably hit a few people in the area with fliers and maybe a quick chat about avoiding being scammed into illegal activity or something. If it was serious, he wouldn't have missed you.
I had one of those random audits a few years ago, before letting my C&R license lapse.
The inspector came to my house and everything went fine.
Trebor, don't we have to keep our bound book for at least 20 years and still record disposal information, etc?
The inspector came to my house and everything went fine.
Trebor, don't we have to keep our bound book for at least 20 years and still record disposal information, etc?
CYANIDEGENOCIDE
Member
- Joined
- Feb 20, 2008
- Messages
- 476
A close friend just got a visit from the ATF supposedly because he bought 2 handguns at the same time. The agents came to his door and asked to see both pistols. He showed them, they said thanks and left. They had paperwork with the make, model and sn listed so if they weren't legit they had access to his transfer dealer's records. I have never heard of ATF checking up on regular people, but it happened.
- Status
