Homeowner's son shoots, kills three would-be burglars with AR15

[Hookeye]

Killed a lot of chucks with .55gr Hornady SX in a .222 Rem.
Had some blow early on shoulder hits, chucks made it down the hole.
Usual performance was dead chuck right there, just a red dot of entrance, no exit.
Switched to reg 55gr SP and got almost the same results with no early blow.

Run a .243 win w 70 gr Nosler BT. No exits unless I hit them in the neck.

Did have some Speer 75gr HP kick up dirt past the chuck in went through..............twice.
Found the jacket on one since critters was in front of a backstop.
Speers shot great, BC not the best............but I want my bullet to blow. Been happy with Noslers since.

Have used .223, 55gr Hornady SP in reloads, 55gr SP Blackhills reman or 55gr V max.
Buddy had his 55gr V max come apart after connecting with a yote at 75. Left a good hole.
Chucks seem to hold them in better.

 

[toivo]

The following happened in a supposedly "good" area. ("Fifth-best place to live in Connecticut.") Home invaders beat the husband with a baseball bat and tied him up (at gunpoint), then raped his wife and 11-year-old daughter and set them on fire. He lived, they died.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheshire,_Connecticut,_home_invasion_murders

It's never a good idea to trust your safety to the good will of somebody who's robbing you at the point of a weapon.

 

[Jim Watson]

ending 3 lives like that as a young man is going to have an effect on him for the rest of his life. I hope he accepts the help/therapy if/when he gets to that point.

Damn shame we have been so conditioned as to feel badly for destroying a predator.

 

[LocoGringo]

This was a 23 (or 19, depending on the reporting source) year old "young man". He shouldn't need any more therapy than any other 19-23 year old soldier who has seen or had to do a lot worse on the battlefield. Rather than needing therapy, I hope he will realize that 1) the criminals put him in that position and 2) he likely did society a favor by removing them.

The stupid, dead perpetrators were ages 16-18. At those ages, they should have been in school during midday on a Monday (assuming they weren't out for spring break). They chose poorly and paid the consequences for their choices. I don't mourn that they are dead, only that they chose poorly when they had the chance to do otherwise.

 

[Torian]

Damn shame we have been so conditioned as to feel badly for destroying a predator.

Gents,

Looks like I need to clarify what I'm saying here:

No one said he made the wrong decision, but if you think this day won't significantly impact him for the rest of his life, I would disagree. Sometimes just having someone to talk to is all you need, but I recommend that he doesn't ignore the elephant in the room, if it becomes one. Seeking help is not a sign of weakness, it's an acknowledgement that you are struggling to deal things on your own.

Now I'm really going to go down the rabbit hole

PTSD continues to be a problem in the military for the same reason. Good men and women, who served with distinction, who made the right choices overseas, come back changed people, and just don't realize it until it is too late. I continue to lose old friends every year to suicide, and all of them appeared fine, until we peeled back the onion really on what happened. I deal with my inner demons on my own, but that's a personal choice I made.

I have deployed to Iraq and Afghanistan, lost close friends while I was over there (shot/killed by the very people who were supposed to be our allies), and am also a PH recipient among other things. When I give my opinion on how violence can affect you, and change you, I speak from personal experience.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

Yeah, saw this on ABC Nightly News ( I believe) , but what upset me was more media brainwashing, calling the firearm an automatic!

It is an auto loader, just like the .45 ACP (Automatic Colt Pistol) or .45 Auto is an automatic as well. Unless the media called it "fully automatic" then they are not wrong.

Gotta be careful about the reverse brainwashing as well, you know.

 

[xXxplosive]

The following happened in a supposedly "good" area. ("Fifth-best place to live in Connecticut.") Home invaders beat the husband with a baseball bat and tied him up (at gunpoint), then raped his wife and 11-year-old daughter and set them on fire. He lived, they died.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheshire,_Connecticut,_home_invasion_murders

It's never a good idea to trust your safety to the good will of somebody who's robbing you at the point of a weapon.

That was in Cheshire Ct. ........I believe......Horrible.

 

[xXxplosive]

That was in Cheshire Ct. ........I lived close by years ago, nice country town.....Horrible.

 

[Jim Watson]

No one said he made the wrong decision, but if you think this day won't significantly impact him for the rest of his life, I would disagree. Sometimes just having someone to talk to is all you need, but I recommend that he doesn't ignore the elephant in the room, if it becomes one. Seeking help is not a sign of weakness, it's an acknowledgement that you are struggling to deal things on your own.

I understand that. The only friend I know for sure to have killed someone, and in immediate under fire self defense, was impacted.
Heck, I dreamed of shooting an intruder this morning and woke up very agitated.
But I think it is a social construct, we are taught to have feeling even for our enemies.
Do you think a Roman Legionary had PTSD for killing barbarians?

 

[grampajack]

Damn shame we have been so conditioned as to feel badly for destroying a predator.

If you can take any human life and not feel bad about it there's something wrong with you.

 

[wally]

If you can take any human life and not feel bad about it there's something wrong with you.

If I had to kill someone, I'd be damn happy it was him instead of me! Any decent "human" wouldn't be threatening me.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

Yes, you would be happy that it was them an not you, but you would undoubtedly still be impacted negatively. That is a common pattern for people to be happy that they survived, but often wish it could have been worked out some other way.

 

[Kleanbore]

If I had to kill someone, I'd be damn happy it was him instead of me!

That would be a better outcome for you, and you would surely feel relieved.

However, most decent people would not feel "happy".

Any decent "human" wouldn't be threatening me

What does that have to do with it?

 

[SeanSw]

We were burglarized between 12:00am-1:00pm on a Thursday afternoon by 3 teenage males. It would have been broad daylight, all neighbors present, with freshly fallen snow from the night before to paint a clear picture of the operation. If they weren't armed and dangerous when they began they definitely were by the time they left. If it weren't for some familiar faces that keep showing up in the mugshots section of our local paper I'd suggest they all relocated to Oklahoma.

 

[GAF]

I have thought about what has been said in the thread and all I can say is this, I hope I never find myself standing in that mans shoes!

 

[grampajack]

If I had to kill someone, I'd be damn happy it was him instead of me! Any decent "human" wouldn't be threatening me.

All I know is both of my grandfathers got really messed up after killing people, one in the war, one in self defense. To be honest, the one who was in the war, I'm really not sure how happy he was to be alive. The one who killed someone in self defense was convinced he could never go to heaven because of what he had done. Even though it was self defense he felt bad about it his entire life.

 

[everydefense]

You hang out at a decent gun shop often?
You work (worked) there?
Vehicle may be ID'd at your residence, and some bad people coming for your stuff.

Teach kids in HS, troubled kids classes.............or work juvi?
Yeah, my ol lady has a couple "students" in jail for murder, some also 6 ft under.

Many a threat to burn our house down, rape our daughters or just kill us.

Thankfully it's all been talk.

Anybody breaks in..................gets killed.

Keeping a low profile may help. Doesn't mean some bad people aren't watching though.

You're right that you can never have complete coverage/prevention, and some people are more prone to crossing paths with bad folks than others due to work, etc, but it is always a good idea to live by the principles of OPSEC... Except for when the garage door opens & closes, the outside of our house appears the same 24/7, so potential burglars never know if we're home or not. That is just the first step, of course... it helps that we are in a cul-de-sac with good neighbors, and random people driving/walking by my house that don't belong there stick out like a sore thumb... and that doesn't even touch on the actual security measures in the house.

Tulsa's a rough town, lots of gang activity. It's very disconcerting seeing the riffraff venturing that far out into the suburbs, though, especially during the daytime. I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that they were probably on meth.

You're right. I live in the suburbs, and it's very safe here (no, I don't live in Broken Arrow, haha). But I was surprised the other day when I took a trip to a Wal-Mart in Tulsa itself... lots (by my standards) of suspicious people hanging around in cars or on foot in the parking lot, and in the store as well. I came straight from work, and wasn't armed, but definitely wish I was. It was an eye-opener compared to my usual day-to-day safety level. It was a reminder of why I don't usually go to Tulsa unless I really need to!

 

[Cannibul]

Please don't use the term PTSD. It's not a disorder. It's the natural response for a moral person from killing another person...in this case that is.

 

[outlawjw]

Or a 50 gr jhp , high on devastation low on penetration

 

[Sistema1927]

Please don't use the term PTSD. It's not a disorder. It's the natural response for a moral person from killing another person...in this case that is.

PTSD is a disorder (the "D" at the end), but not all Post-traumatic Stress results in PTSD.

A car accident, a tornado, a job loss, a divorce, are all traumatic events accompanied by Post-traumatic Stress. Only if not dealt with in a healthy way will they result in the DSM diagnosis of PTSD.

Now, when does the stress turn into the disorder? It is different for each individual. Each of us have different levels of resilience. Some people need the assistance of others in processing their experience while others have the internal tools to do so on their own.

The DOD has done good work recently with the implementation of Combat Operations Stress First Aid (COSFA), and the Disaster Relief community has adapted this for a civilian setting with Operational Stress First Aid (OSFA). At the same time, the International Critical Stress Foundation (ICISF) and National Organization for Victim Assistance (NOVA) have developed models that also work in preventing bad outcomes following exposure to these types of traumas.

All of these things can prevent the descent into the "D" of PTSD.

 

[dh1633pm]

I do think that PTSD is sometimes misused. Some of it is also survivor guilt. My son is bothered to no end that he volunteered to go on a MEU instead of an Afgan tour. The person who volunteered in his place, a close friend was killed. My son ended up there anyhow as part of the MEU, but it rips his heart that his friend was killed. Anyone who kills someone even for good is not left unscathed.

 

[wally]

Any decent "human" wouldn't be threatening me

What does that have to do with it?

It has pretty much everything to do with it. If the vermin weren't being vermin they could be decent humans amd wouldn't be threatening anyone. Attack me and mine and I'll not shed a tear for them afterwards. I'm fed up with this "thug culture" that glorifies these punks and makes excuses for their bad behaviors.

 

[1911 guy]

I'm going to chime in. First of all, I'm glad the young man wasn't further victimized. Too bad the thugs didn't make better life choices. They rolled the dice and lost.

Now, the other point that's being discussed: Anyone who thinks taking a life doesn't affect you in some way, even when completely justified, is living in a dream world. It affects different people differently, because we all have slightly different psychological makeups. But it will affect you. Denying that and refusing to deal with it exacerbates the problems it can cause. People who aren't bothered at all are called sociopaths.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

Sad thing is that many decent humans snap. Remember, you are more likley to be killed by someone you know than a stranger and many of the people you know are probably folks you considered to be decent humans.

 

[acdodd]

Well, you had Sgt. Joe Friday on duty back then followed by Officers Malloy and Reed.

I watched an episode of Dragnet a few months ago on TV Land and the big crime wave Friday and Gannon were investigating was someone stealing movie posters from theaters.
They got the punk and Friday read him the riot act. Funny in today's world.