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Honor system (do the test before poll) thread to settle Glock grip

Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by bds, Aug 15, 2012.

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With eyes closed, point a Glock at a light switch - How do your Glock sights point?

Poll closed Sep 14, 2012.
  1. After doing the test, my Glock front sight was higher than the rear sight.

    44 vote(s)
    34.1%
  2. After doing the test, my Glock front sight was in line with the read sight.

    57 vote(s)
    44.2%
  3. I won't take the test because I know my Glock will always point right for me.

    12 vote(s)
    9.3%
  4. I won't take the test because I know Glocks won't point right for me.

    16 vote(s)
    12.4%
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  1. bds
    • Contributing Member

    bds Member

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    NOTE: Before you answer the poll, please do the following test!

    Since this is the "High Road" forum, I am using the honor system and trusting that each member will do the test before answering the poll question. ;)

    - If you do not currently own a Glock, please do not answer the poll.
    - If you have different size Glocks (Full, Compact, Subcompact), please use the largest grip model.

    Remember, I am trusting that each Glock owner do this so we can settle the Glock grip angle issue fair and objectively.

    For those that depend on Glocks for SD/HD, you may want to do this test at the range to find out true/natural point of aim in case you need to shoot in low-light conditions where you can't see the sights.
     
  2. powder

    powder member

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    What is the "grip angle" issue, to be seen here?
     
  3. chicharrones
    • Contributing Member

    chicharrones needs more ammo

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    The front sight was higher than rear sight by 1/2 of height of the front sight. Which is something like a couple millimeters. At 7 yards, the light switch plate was still going to be hit.
     
  4. ugaarguy

    ugaarguy Moderator Staff Member

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    I don't own a Glock because I've done this test and the front sight is always higher than the rear when I do. It's much more of an issue the larger the model / frame size.
     
  5. HorseSoldier

    HorseSoldier Member

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    When I was intensively (and exclusively) shooting Glocks in the police academy, this wasn't an issue for me, or if it was it went away after within the first ten hours or so of range time.

    At all other points in time, when a Glock was not the primary make of pistol I was shooting it was a slight issue that I did not see switching between other makes/models.

    (For the record, I'm not really a Glock fan, but I respect them for being rugged and functional guns. The grip angle is part of what I feel are mediocre ergonomics, but not a show stopper in and of itself for me.)
     
  6. TxBobS

    TxBobS Member

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    Grip angle is personal. Since all humans are different, the height from our eyes to our shoulders is all different. That means that our arms will have to be at different angles to bring the rear sight up to our line of sight. Since our arms will all be at different angles, our wrists will then be and different angles for any given pistol's grip angle.

    Pistol X will fit better and worse on various people than pistol Y.

    For the record, my Glock sights were in line with my target probably because I shoot it more. My CZ was then low the first time. The 3rd time my CZ was in line.
     
  7. Skribs

    Skribs Member

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    This poll is going to be a little scewed because you're only polling Glock owners. Glock owners are more likely to find the grip angle natural.
     
  8. David E

    David E Member

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    Maybe if you live in Gargantuan Land where the switch plate is a foot tall. Everywhere else, that shot will hit above it.
     
  9. GLOOB

    GLOOB Member

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    Flawed test.

    For one, it depends on what you're used to... as in what you've been shooting most recently.

    Second, if I were TRYING to shoot at point blank range and/or without looking, I wouldn't be using the sights. And I'd therefore be point-shooting. The gun would never come all the way up to my eyeline, cuz I know how my Glocks point-shoot. I pointshoot by imagining a line extending from my shoulder down through the gun.

    Also, if I'm using the sights on a Glock, I'm actively lowering my head to get my eye down to the right line, rather than canting the gun down to line the sights up to my eye. If I've been shooting my FN a lot, I may forget to do this during your "light switch test," but in practice, it's not a big issue for me cuz I don't plan to shoot things with my eyes closed.

    I agree, there's an adjustment when you switch between grip angles. But adjusting to a gun that points too high is easier than one that points too low. When the front sight is high, you can at least still see it and easily make an adjustment while extending your arms.* A gun that points too low = no front sight. Do no pass go. And it's a strain on the wrist to lift a gun higher than is natural. Had to let my Cougar go, because of this. Hard to keep the sights from shaking.

    *Esp when shooting from the "competition style" or "tactical" low ready (i.e. elbows bent, butt of gun at chest), I find the higher pointing Glock quite natural to track and level while extending the gun outwards. Until the very last bit of extension, it is beneficial to keep the front sight higher than the rear so you can always see it.
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2012
  10. chicharrones
    • Contributing Member

    chicharrones needs more ammo

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    Ah, but I didn't say my front sight was centered on the plate when I opened my eyes. The front sight was at the bottom. Plus, sometimes my front sight was a tad to the left or a tad to the right in the half dozen times I tried it. At 7 yards hitting a light switch plate with closed eyes will be iffy indeed.

    Perhaps I need to take this to the range for a live fire test. :scrutiny:
     
  11. GLOOB

    GLOOB Member

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    ^^ Bingo. When shooting quickly at close range, I commonly hold way under POA with an elevated front sight. This is a great sight picture for high speed, lower precision shooting. I learned this when I was 8, busting bottles with a BB gun. And it's a sight picture that comes naturally to me with a Glock. Try this with a Cougar, haha.
     
  12. Alberforth

    Alberforth Member

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    There is no 'grip issue' with Glocks.

    For most people what feels 'natural' depends on what you are used to.

    Back in the 1940s the US Army stated clearly in a training film that the 1911 has an unnatural grip angle and people have to be trained to overcome this and get used to it.
     
  13. jp3

    jp3 Member

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    Using this test, my Baer 1911 points right on target.
    My G 36, not so much.
     
  14. gunsablazin

    gunsablazin Member

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    I shoot IDPA, usually with a 1911 in CDP class, but recently I have gone back to the Glock, it's a G35 .40. These pistols point very differently as you know, so when I shoot one or the other I draw and dry-fire daily with my competition gear, so being able to do "blind" draws with either is natural. Getting your body to help "aim" the pistol is a good skill have whether for competition, or self defense.
     
  15. wildehond

    wildehond Member

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    The sights lined up for me. Though it is the only handgun I shoot.
     
  16. beatledog7

    beatledog7 Member

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    I did this strong side only, for fun.

    On the first try, very slightly high and a tick left, but that's not a bad thing as I tend to lollipop my sight picture and hit slightly low. I would have hit the light switch center mass (8.5 yards). On the second try, level but still a bit left.

    On tries three through six, dead on.

    I should point out that I've been shooting other handguns more recently (Buckmark, CZ75, Baby Eagle, another shooter's 1911, Marine Corps-owned M92, and Ruger revolvers), and it's been about two months since I shot the Glock--way too long!
     
  17. mavracer

    mavracer Member

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    I don't own a Glock but have done this test before and the front sight is always above the rear.
     
  18. dogtown tom

    dogtown tom Member

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    The "Glock grip angle" debate is pure malarky.

    I shoot 1911's, Hi Powers, Colt Woodsman, Sig 228, and both SA/DA revolvers.........in addition to Glocks.

    If you practice with each platform you come to see that only a blind fanboy would use "grip angle" as his excuse to not being able to point "naturally" or to hit what he is aiming.
     
  19. JohnBT

    JohnBT Member

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    "Back in the 1940s the US Army stated clearly in a training film"

    That settles that. The government told me so.
     
  20. 9mmepiphany

    9mmepiphany Moderator

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    The famous combat masters Skyes and Fairbairn, in their book "Shoot To Live" found the same thing when they were training OSS operatives
     
  21. AK103K

    AK103K Member

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    Its nice to know that some do understand. :)
     
  22. Noah

    Noah Member

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    I do this all the time with an airsoft replica Glock. Does that count? :eek: It is always pointed high, while our P95, PF-9, friend's M&P9 and all our 1911/M&P/Beretta replicas are lined up...

    However I'd concur that Glocks "work" for some people, and practice and familiarity would make them point just right for anyone.
     
  23. TestPilot

    TestPilot Member

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    The Glock 22 I was holding actually pointed low.

    But, this does not prove anything.

    I did the same with an M&P, and it actually pointed more closer to the aim point. If my wrist always sets at the same angle, M&P should have pointed even lower.
     
  24. TestPilot

    TestPilot Member

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    Grip angle issue does exist. But, it's not because Glock's grip angle is "wrong."

    It's because if a particular shooter is not biased for Glock's grip angle, they need more time, effort, cost to overcome that issue.

    "Training issue" STILL IS AN ISSUE!

    Also, in compressed shooting posture, grip angle that has the wrist in more downward biased angle(such as that of a Glock) gives less motion range because wrist tilts toward the little finger more as the hand is brought closer to the torso and more downward biased wrist angle would already used up some of that tilt motion range.

    This does not mean Glock cannot be shot in compressed posture, but it can mean increased difficulty with some people.
     
  25. David E

    David E Member

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    If you only shoot slowfire, and/or are not highly skilled, then you're right, there is no "issue."

    But if you have years of 1911 grip angle, going at speed the Glock will point high, until sufficient time has been invested into the Glock platform to overcome it.

    1000's of folks have spent 1000's of dollars altering the Glock grip angle "malarkey," so it IS an issue for 1000's of people....but what do they know?
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2012
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