Hornady AP Newbie questions...

[BigGee]

Hi everyone,

Just got a Hornady AP and have a couple of questions.

1. The PTX bushings – I’m sure I read somewhere that they now include an “M Die” step. Is this true and does it work for coated bullets ? Does someone make an alternative PTX that works better ? I’m sure I read about another brand of PTX that can be used, but I can’t find the info now and the info seemed confusing.

2. If I go with a separate M die, can the powder measure be used to drop powder without using a PTX bushing ? I will only be loading for 9mm & 38 / 357.

Thanks ! BigGee

 

[cfullgraf]

Not what some folks want to here but I resize on my Hornady L-N-L at one time them load the sized, prepped, and cleaned cases at a later time.

This allows me to use what ever mouth expanding die I want, prime off the press if I want to, and not expect the powder drop to expand the case mouth.

I size and clean cases shortly after shooting them and save them for a mega loading session somewhere down the road. I prime by hand off the press and only use the press to charge the case and seat the bullet.

Many folks feel that I am wasting the capabilities of the progressive press but my investigations show I can speed up parts of the process they can't when loading fired case to finish round. So, I save time fewer jams and less re-work. My production rates are comparable with folks not using case feeders or bullet feeds as I do not use.

This is just something for you to look at as you are learning your progressive press. Keep and open mind on what works best for you.

It takes an open mind to think outside the box for what works best for you.

 

[lordpaxman]

Does someone make an alternative PTX that works better ? I’m sure I read about another brand of PTX that can be used, but I can’t find the info now and the info seemed confusing.

https://www.doublealpha.biz/us/hornady-lnl-powder-funnel

I have an older LNL so I don’t know if the newer one’s come with an adjusted M step. You might also be able to find another one if you look for Mr. Bullet feeder which is one of the drivers for this M step.

Yes the powder measure can be used without a PTX insert. You should have gotten a couple of inserts with the LNL that would be used for shorter vs longer cases. There’s still an adjustment step so the case activated linkage moves the rotor the proper amount. You can buy just the lower powder measure assembly, or “die” so you can easily move the powder measure from one caliber to another and the setup is only done once. Good luck.

 

[BigGee]

Thanks for the replies !
I thin I'll set up the measure without the PTX once I have it unwrapped and cleaned.

Chuck, I also (When I was using my Lee Turret) used a "Semi Batch" method for reloading. I'll tinker with the AP and find what works for me.

 

[Otto]

How to setup the Lock-N-Load® AP™ Reloading Press (without Powder Through™ Expander)

 

[tightgroup tiger]

Is your press new or used? If it is new than it has the standard bushing in it that does not work as a ptx. The standard non-ptx funnel should look like this, and the funnel points down, not up. It's to fit the top of the case. It's the part on the extreme left.
It drops down in the piece next to it.

 

[tightgroup tiger]

I don't like the ptx's that Hornady makes, they stick in the cases and makes the powder measure slam down on the down stroke. The only one that has any resemblance to a M-die is the 9mm and it's kind of crudely similar. I use what's in the picture and use a Lyman M-die because they work better.
If this causes me to have to run cases through the press twice because of my bullet feed die, than I run them through twice for my process.

 

[Skgreen]

I use RCBS Pistol Powder Expanders in my LNL-AP powder measure. Less sticking. https://www.rcbs.com/progressive/pistol-powder-expanders-pro-2000/539.html

 

[NMexJim]

https://www.hornady.com/reloading/p...e-activated-powder-drop-powder-accessories#!/

I’m including this link to be sure we talking same-same.

The powder-through-expanders (PTX) need the Powder Measure Stop to control the amount of expansion to the case mouth. Not included with a new press to my knowledge. As the info attached reads, you really only need these to free-up a station. A F/L sizer, expander, powder drop, powder cop, and seater/crimp will fill all the stations. If you want to taper crimp in a separate step, or other additional step, and you’re not willing to do without the powder cop, then you’ll need the powder-through set-up complete.

Otherwise, just use the standard tubes that came with the press as in the video.

I have them. I use the Quick Change Powder Die to speed set-up/change over. I have a couple of those just so I don’t need to reset for different calibers. I don’t have any problems with them sticking, but there is a learning curve for their use. You’ll curse it for awhile. The only time I use them is loading in volume from scratch for pistol 500 or 1k rounds. For small batch, forget about it.

Mostly, I do case prep in stages by bags. I’ll do, say 1,000, through to flaring. Then I pick up next time with prime, powder drop, powder cop, seater/crimp. I used to mess with case and bullet feed but rarely bother these days. Plus, Hornady bullet feed won’t work with lead or plated, IMHO.

Happy to send some pics tomorrow if you need further info. Let me know.

 

[Dudedog]

I'm like cfullgraf, I make 2 passes.

I like to wet tumble deprimed brass (nice shiny brass and clean primer pockets probably dosen't make much if any difference in how it shoots but it makes me smile)
I usually hand prime off press while watching the tube (wear safety glasses!)

For pistol-9mm, .45
Pass 1
Deprime/resize, expand case mouth
wet tumble
Pass 2
1. Drop Powder
2. RCBS lockout die
3 Bullet feeder
4 Bullet seater
5 crimp

 

[Blue68f100]

I believe the powder stop is included now with the kits. If not used you will fail the linkage arm that connects the base to the dispenser. If you want to setup a quick change that is truly quick change set the stop so that you get full stroke. Then never adj it again. Do all the adj on the powder die which can be a pita but once done all you do is change the powder die base. If you get in the habit of adj the stop, it impacts all of your powder dies adjusted.

For hand gun ammo I normally clean the brass with a vibrating cleaner prior to running them through the LNL-AP. Then it's 1 pass and done. If I need to wet clean brass I use a universal deprimer as 1 pass. Clean brass then complete the loading cycle on the AP.

Handgun ammo

1. clean brass prior to running

station
1a. size brass
1b. insert primer on down stroke
2. Powder drop with PTX
3. Powder check Cop or kockout *
4. Seat bullet and crimp if roll crimp.
5 crimp die if Taper Crimp.

* Some like the RCBS lockout die since it will stop the press. I use the Powder Cop for all since I'm in the habit of looking at it on all types of ammo. Switching back in forth may take you out of the habit of checking the cop.

For rifle I deprime prior to cleaning (wet system), single pass

Then load like pistol but a powder cop die is required to check powder level in bottle neck cortridges. NO PTX is used or required with Rifle.
I don't crimp rifle rounds.

 

[Dudedog]

Side note,
I have a bullet feeder but no case feeder. (started out with the Hornady tube type, added Hornady motor driven one later)
Left hand feeds cases, right hand pulls handle, the case feeder might speed things up a but but my left hand needs to do something anyway

The RCBS lockout die only works for pistol but I really like it.

https://ultimatereloader.com/2010/09/19/rcbs-lock-out-die-part-i-theory-of-operation/
https://ultimatereloader.com/2010/09/21/rcbs-lock-out-die-part-ii-setup-and-maintenance/

The lockout die is money well spent IMO, of course if it never locks you may wonder why you spent the money, the first time it does you know why.
Can you load without it, sure, is it nice to have, definitely.
A powder cop will work for both rifle and pistol but you have to watch it, no need to watch the lockout die.

Hope you LNL works out well for you.

 

[NMexJim]

The PTX stop (the bar on the powder measure) does come with the LnL AP, unless you have an (much) older version than it does not. The PTX itself does not come with the press it is caliber specific and comes with the Hornady bullet feeder. Depending on the bullets you are loading you probably do not need an expander for.223.
Hornady LnL AP set up-? | The Firearms Forum

So, the stop comes with the press now, but not the PTX. As long as you use the regular tubes, you will not fail the linkage. Not sure why they started including the stop. Can't use unless you have a PTX.

 

[Rule3]

I just use my Lee dies from my turret
No PTX or other stuff
The Lee expander works fine
No I don’t have a powder check die
I can see in the case

 

[lordpaxman]

The PTX stop (the bar on the powder measure) does come with the LnL AP, unless you have an (much) older version than it does not.

You may want to consider a PTX bar per caliber. They’re inexpensive enough and once set they are part of the caliber conversion process.

No I don’t have a powder check die
I can see in the case

Which is a very good thing, but, what I’ve found is even though I look in every case, at some point I catch myself and say “did I really look in that last case?”. That’s the reason I have a lock out die. Even with a lock out die, they can fail too, but then it’d have to be two failures at the same time. All of us have different levels of QC we’re comfortable with.

 

[NMexJim]

You may want to consider a PTX bar per caliber. They’re inexpensive enough and once set they are part of the caliber conversion process.


Which is a very good thing, but, what I’ve found is even though I look in every case, at some point I catch myself and say “did I really look in that last case?”. That’s the reason I have a lock out die. Even with a lock out die, they can fail too, but then it’d have to be two failures at the same time. All of us have different levels of QC we’re comfortable with.

I’ll add my two cents on the RCBS as well. I used a Hornady Powder Cop for quite awhile. I started using some fine ball powders, and started having problems with reading the o-ring on the Hornady. I had to pull a few. The RCBS Lock Out powder cop does two things. It’s better at measuring fine grain powders and it physically locks out the press when the settings are not met. Kinda helps human error - short stroking the press, etc.

 

[BigGee]

Thank you, everyone.
It was a frustrating day in the garage ! I got the press mounted and wiped down only to find that the press wouldn't index. Both pawls were totally out of adjustment and the right one was sticking in the 'down' position occasionally. I fiddled with both pawls and it seems to be indexing OK now.

That got me on guard and I spent a while deburring various items and making things run smoothly.
I do have an appreciation of how the powder drop mechanism works now, and thanks, lordpaxman, I will be buying another measure holder for easy setup.

My only other issue is the powder measure cylinder - it sits at an angle, and although I'm sure it will function it bugs me when I look at it.
The manual mentions large and small cylinders, but I'm not sure how they are retained.

A disappointing first day - hopefully I'll get things going better from here.

Actually, I've just thought of something else - the bin for ejected rounds. When I mount the bracket, it bumps on the subplate when the ram is at it's lowest.
My press is mounted directly to the bench and the bracket is almost too deep for me to tighten the press down.

 

[NMexJim]

All progressive presses are a royal pain, but it gets better.

Pawls - before you use the attached sheet, go back into your LNL instructions and carefully read about pawl adjustment. Read the attachment.

The plastic powder hopper is replaceable should you ever need, but that’ll be awhile. I just replaced mine and I have one of the early AP. Gently tap it and it will come into alignment. Do not glue it as you will limit your ability to clean the casting. There are 3 rows of “teeth” that the tube drives (gently) down into. See photo.

Just move the bin over a little. Eventually, you’ll want to get an Inline Fabrications setup.

 

[NMexJim]

https://inlinefabrication.com/collections/hornady-lock-n-load-ap-ergo-roller-lever

scroll down

Go on YouTube 76Highboy Reloading for more adjustment help.

 

[lgjhn]

When I first got mine, I used 76HighBoy’s videos to get everything setup and working properly. He does a very thorough job with it.
I've never been a big fan of priming on a progressive having witnessed a full primer stack failure/light off many years back.
I deprime on an ancient RCBS single-stage, usually hand prime and then load on the Hornady AP or a Redding T7.
Lately, I’ve tried priming a few on the T7 and it’s gone without issue....so far. Still, it makes me nervous.
FWIW, I only run the AP now for massive pistol reloading sessions which doesn’t happen much these days with the current component shortage going on.
IF I’m only gonna do say 50-100 cases, I just run em on that T7 since I leave it set up for my specific calibers.

 

[lordpaxman]

My only other issue is the powder measure cylinder - it sits at an angle, and although I'm sure it will function it bugs me when I look at it.
The manual mentions large and small cylinders, but I'm not sure how they are retained.

If you’re referring to the powder hopper cylinder, clear plastic, then what @NMexJim wrote should help, but I’m one of the unfortunate ones who discovered the lack of a lock mechanism on the plastic cylinder is not a good thing. It is not unheard of for a cylinder full of powder to grace the reloading table/stand/floor. I duck tape mine.
If you’re talking large and small cylinders, the only thing I can relate that too is the metal rotor that does the volumetric measuring of the powder. The large has a large bore hole for rifle/large charges, and the small is for pistol/small charges. There’s a rubber oring on the circumference to corral powder grains, and it’s held in place with the linkage only. Good luck.

 

[tightgroup tiger]

My only other issue is the powder measure cylinder - it sits at an angle, and although I'm sure it will function it bugs me when I look at it.
The manual mentions large and small cylinders, but I'm not sure how they are retained.

Do you mean the entire powder measure sits crooked set in top of the press? Is the bushing looser than it needs to be when engaged to the top of the press? Hornady has shims they will give you if your powder measure is loose in the bushing and leans a little.
As far as the large and small cylinders, there is a button on the side of the cylinder that you push in and it allows you to remove the powder adjustment., then the cylinder just slides out. So the powder adjustment holds it in place.

 

[Rule3]

You may want to consider a PTX bar per caliber. They’re inexpensive enough and once set they are part of the caliber conversion process.


Which is a very good thing, but, what I’ve found is even though I look in every case, at some point I catch myself and say “did I really look in that last case?”. That’s the reason I have a lock out die. Even with a lock out die, they can fail too, but then it’d have to be two failures at the same time. All of us have different levels of QC we’re comfortable with.

Never used a powder check on a gazillion rounds of many calibers in a LCT press.
I do agree that a Progressive there is more likelihood of a missed charge that's why I go slow.

 

[cfullgraf]

Never used a powder check on a gazillion rounds of many calibers in a LCT press.
I do agree that a Progressive there is more likelihood of a missed charge that's why I go slow.

Use the method that works best for you. But USE it! Go slower until the scan becomes second nature

I do not care for the RCBS Powder Lock die, I feel it is too much a pain to re-adjust and too expensive to have dies dedicated for each cartridge I load.

I use the Hornady Powder Cop die alot. I have lots of faith in what my powder measures throw from decades of using them. The powder Cop die is part of my scan and if I have an upset, I automatically remove all cases around the powder measure before restarting. With the powder Cop die, I'm looking for wide swings in powder charge. Small variations really do not make a difference and I really feel the powder check dies are able to see small differences.

The Powder Cop die is one of the few applications that Im like the Lee o-ring lock rings. I can adjust the die quickly by hand after I get the powder charge right and the lock ring can be tightened by hand enough that the die does not move during the run.

I use the Powder Cop die with both hand gun and rifle.

On my Dillon SDB presses, I look in the case to make sure the powder had been charged. As such, I only load short cases like 45 ACP, 9x19, and 380 ACP. Taller cases I cannot see into the case to verify the powder charge.

There is at least one forum member (GW Starr) that has rigged up a camera to see in the cases. Another good way to look inside the case after the powder drop. I've got the pieces to try it on the SDB but have not gotten the additional enthusiasm to work on it yet.

 

[9mmepiphany]

Thank you, everyone.
It was a frustrating day in the garage ! I got the press mounted and wiped down only to find that the press wouldn't index. Both pawls were totally out of adjustment and the right one was sticking in the 'down' position occasionally. I fiddled with both pawls and it seems to be indexing OK now.

The easiest way to get your pawls set up correctly is with the Pawl Adjustment Tools from Bragging Rights Precision Reloading. They also have tools to correctly align your primer shuttle
https://www.bragginrightsprecisionreloading.com/shop

My only other issue is the powder measure cylinder - it sits at an angle, and although I'm sure it will function it bugs me when I look at it.
The manual mentions large and small cylinders, but I'm not sure how they are retained.

The cylinders are the metal rotors that mount into the powder measure body. I'm not sure how they could sit at an angle as it is a pretty close fit when the slide in laterally. They are retained by the powder drop linkage.

If you are referring to the powder hopper, that is just a press fit and it isn't uncommon to have it sit slightly off. If this is a newer LNL, the powder measure body holding the hopper should be threaded. The thing is the the hopper body isn't. They eventually loosen and you may consider replacing it with a Pyrex hopper from Dram Worx...which threads into the body . If you have an older powder measure, the hopper is retained by 3 ridges in the body...Dram Worx make a version for this also
https://dramworx.com/products/hornady/

Actually, I've just thought of something else - the bin for ejected rounds. When I mount the bracket, it bumps on the subplate when the ram is at it's lowest.
My press is mounted directly to the bench and the bracket is almost too deep for me to tighten the press down.

The spring of the bracket partially cushions the subplate...that's normal. Don't worry about contact when you tighten the press down