Hornady Customer Service?

[ccw007]

Has anyone had to deal with Hornady's customer service and the Lock-N-Load Press? If so, how did they compare to what you have experienced or heard about Dillon's customer service?

I am looking at the Lock-N-Load over the 650 because of the cost of the press and the cost to covert between calibers. I know Dillon have rock solid presses and top customer service and I just wondered how Hornady compares before I take the leap.

 

[JoeHatley]

Last time I called their customer service with a question about some bullets, I got put through to Steve Hornady directly. Probably because it was late on a Saturday afternoon, but I was impressed...

Joe

 

[1911user]

CS at hornady is fine. I would not consider it a factor when comparing to Dillon and I've talked to CS at both places.

Make your decision on the press features, costs, and problems. Even though I have the hornady press, I'd recommend the 650 if you don't have many calibers, do plan to get a case feeder, and can spend a little bit more up front. The 650 is just a better, more mature reloading setup in my experience.

 

[EddieCoyle]

I installed a crimping die too low and cut the ejector wire in half, and also installed a shellplate on top of the spring that they use to hold the cases. I called Hornady to buy replacement parts and they sent me 2 ejector wires and 5 springs for free.

 

[1911user]

Here's a list of things that will save calls to hornady CS.

1) You must use short crimp dies in station number 5 because the ejector wire is in the way of normal crimp dies. Buy a hornady crimp die for each caliber and save the hassle of making something else work.

2) The bolt that holds the shellplate is a decent sized hex bolt that begs someone to use a large wrench to tighten it down. Don't use a wrench, finger-tighten only! The bolt threads into a cast piece and it will crack/break if the bolt is turned way too tight. Finger pressure works just fine.

3) The powder measure only comes with a basic rifle powder insert. If you plan to reload pistol ammo (like most people), you'll need to buy a pistol powder drum and insert for an extra $25-30. The micrometer pistol insert is another $25-30 and probably worth gettng for multiple pistol calibers. (The 550/650 comes with rifle and pistol powder inserts). Also, make sure to thoroughly clean all of the sticky rust preventive coating inside and outside the powder measure. Take it completely apart and clean well before first use.

4) A small wooden dowel about a foot long will help the last few primers feed properly. Just that little bit of weight on the primer stack helps and you can make a mark on the dowel to show when you're down to the last 1 or 2 primers.

In spite of the list, the LNL-AP can be a nice press, but the 650 really is worth the extra $200 or so if you plan to load lots of ammo for many years.

 

[ccw007]

Gee thanks 1911user I thought I had made mind up

 

[Car Knocker]

but the 650 really is worth the extra $200 or so if you plan to load lots of ammo for many years.

I believe that is just a matter of opinion. All presses have their idiosyncracies.

 

[1911user]

Gee thanks 1911user I thought I had made mind up

I just want people to make an educated decision on reloading tools. I have sent that list (and other suggested improvements) to hornady and suspect they have been at least read by people in charge. Don't be thinking that I hate hornady. I have a newer LNL-AP press, electric casefeeder, 5-6 shellplates, rifle and pistol powder micrometers, and hornady die sets in 6 calibers. I have other brands of reloading equipment also, but hornady generally makes good product. I used a dillon 550 for 7 years (good press) and have been around other people's 650 setups so I do have some experience on the good/bad with dillon. To be fair, the 650 downsides are expensive caliber conversions, primer size swaps that could be easier, and the press was designed around use of a casefeeder (not absolutely required, but suggested with a 650).

I believe that is just a matter of opinion. All presses have their idiosyncracies.

That's true, but the dillon presses have a well-earned reputation for durability over years of heavy use (possibly excepting the SDB). Hornady may earn that reputation with the LNL-AP someday, but they aren't there yet. They are still tweaking the design and fixing problems every year. The 550/650 presses have been a stable, successful design for over a decade and don't need to be tweaked every year to fix something. I do believe that hornady is close to having a progressive press that will be real competition to Dillon even when long-term durability is considered. Competition benefits all of us. I'm convinced that dillon would not have brought out the casefeeder for the 550 press without competition from hornady. The LNL is much more competition to the 550 than 650 IMO, but it will be real 650 competition in a year or 2 once the new expander/powder dump mechanism is tweaked and proven.

 

[Guy B. Meredith]

1911user,

I've not experienced the primer problem you mention with the current priming system. I put the new one on my low serial number LNL and it runs smooth as silk.

 

[1911user]

The dowel in the primer stack is probably just insurance for some people especially if they keep the primer feed of press very clean. Before I started doing it, I would occassionally have the last primer or 2 not drop into the primer slide. The latest hornady LNL-AP primer mechanism is very similar to that on a dillon 550; it's a good design. Dillon does the same rod trick with a plastic rod that fits into the primer magazine and the rod activates the low primer buzzer. You can add more weight with an empty case or 2, but no need to go crazy.

I would use the wooden dowel even if it only gave an indication of how many primers were left in the magazine. Putting powder in unprimed cases usually means it'll be time to clean the press very soon. Any extra primer feed reliability from the rod is a nice bonus.

 

[robctwo]

I have the LnL and have just recently had the primer feed guide bend and the large primer feed slide cracked. I called Hornady. Nice Lady helped me out. She did mention to not push if there is resistance. I noted that I was reloading .270 and there is resistance with the sizing die on a full size die.

I had the part numbers, but not my press serial number. We worked around that. She said it was covered with the warranty and they would get the parts out in 10 to 14 days. I told her we had an early hunt coming up. She said they were stacked up. OK. I got the parts about 5 days later first class priority mail. I'm very happy.

I'm reloading everything from .380 to 300 WSM. 9mm, .40, .45, .204, .223, .243, .270, .308. I have never used a Dillon, or seen one in person so I have no opinion on them one way or another.

 

[BigJakeJ1s]

The 550/650 presses have been a stable, successful design for over a decade and don't need to be tweaked every year to fix something.

When was the powder measure linkage changed from spring return to the "failsafe" connecting rod?

When did Dillon "improve" their seating dies to require you to loosen the lock ring and adjust the whole die to change seating depth, and remove the option of crimping with them?

When did Dillon introduce the optional magnum powder measure?

When did Dillon change the design of the primer feed bar on the 550?

Don't get me wrong, I prefer a manufacturer that keeps "improving" their product, but Dillon hasn't exactly had a stable design for the last decade either.

Andy

 

[1911user]

When was the powder measure linkage changed from spring return to the "failsafe" connecting rod?

When did Dillon "improve" their seating dies to require you to loosen the lock ring and adjust the whole die to change seating depth, and remove the option of crimping with them?

When did Dillon introduce the optional magnum powder measure?

When did Dillon change the design of the primer feed bar on the 550?

Don't get me wrong, I prefer a manufacturer that keeps "improving" their product, but Dillon hasn't exactly had a stable design for the last decade either.

I'm thinking the powder measure linkage change was in the early/mid 90's due to 650 presses. That change was so "successful" that people are still "retrograding" their measure to operate the old way. Dillon will provide the upgrade parts (at no cost, unlike hornady) for older powder measures. I've used both styles and both worked fine for me. The older style (spring return only) is definitely smoother though.

I don't know about the date of dillon die changes since I normally used Lee dies for my 550. However, I know the change you are talking about. The old style dillon dies were like normal dies that rdbs, hornady, etc. sell. The new style is made for high volume progressive loading and uses removable inserts for cleaning the seating and crimping dies. Each style has good and bad points. The nice thing is both dillon and hornady presses use standard size dies so you can choose your favorite brand (except for station number 5 in the LNL-AP).

I don't know about the magnum powder bar except that it is an option for loading magnum rifle cases which I never did. It certainly doesn't change the operation of the powder measure.

I wasn't aware the primer feed changed on the 550 press. I know a plate was added for the primer bar to slide on, but I think that happened back in 1985 when the 450 press was replaced by the 550 press.

My big issue with yearly improvements (by hornady) is they are ususally not compatible with parts/presses sold only a year or 2 before. Compare a hornady pro-jector from 10 years ago with the current LNL-AP; you can barely get repair parts for it since it's been obsolete so long. If there is anything common between the powder, primer, or die retention systems, I'll be surprised. Dillon doesn't obsolete things every year. If you have a hornady progressive more than a few years old and want to add a case feeder, it'll cost you $75 for a new shellplate carrier. The new dillon 550 casefeeder will work with the original 550 presses made in the mid 1980's.

One example that really bugs me is the new same-station expander/powder drop setup (ala dillon and lee). This is advertised to make the press "equivelent to a dillon 650". I bought my hornady press new less than 6 months ago and it will cost $50 for a new powder drop mechanism to gain this feature. Last years hornady powder parts don't work with this years parts plus they made it more expensive for dropping pistol level powder charges. There is a homebrew workaround involving lyman powder parts and drilling/tapping pieces, but I bought shellplates and caliber conversion parts made in the early 1980s and used them on my dillon 550B twenty years later. I almost bought a new hornady pro-jector in 1998 and am really glad that I bought a used dillon press instead. Dillon equipment doesn't need to be updated every year. Hornady isn't to that point yet although they are much closer than 5-10 years ago. In retrospect, I should have held off buying the hornady press another year, but it's too late for that now without taking a big loss.

 

[BigJakeJ1s]

I don't know if Dillon changed to seat-only (no-crimp) dies before or after they added the "quick-clean" feature. BTW, Hornady seating dies also have that same easy disassembly feature, without affecting settings, plus optional micrometer seating depth adjusting screws.

The Dillon "magnum" powder measure I'm speaking of is an entire powder measure, not just a "magnum bar". I think it was developed from the powder measure on their shotshell progressive press. This is not a free upgrade from Dillon either.

As far as micrometer adjustable PM inserts, Dillon does not give those away for free either.

The design of the 550 primer bar has changed shape from flat bottom, to chevron grooved bottom, to cast, "hollow" bottom, with teflon-coated and non-coated versions mixed in along the way. Dillon does provide latest-style replacements for free.

The Hornady shell plates are interchangeable from projector and LNL-AP presses. I'm not positive, but I think the casefeeder compatible subplate and new primer system for the LNL-AP are also compatible with the projector. At a cost, not unlike upgrading from the Dillon 450 to the 550.

Dillon did not originally include low primer warning systems with their presses, but now they do. Do they give them away to older press owners (I really don't know)?

Both the old and new (casemouth expanding) Hornady case activated PM linkages are compatible with the projector, but you do have to buy them. The Dillon PM linkage upgrade is a safety-related upgrade (I've heard they will not send you the parts to go back to the old spring-return version, you have to modify them yourself), probably provided at no cost in order to avoid lawsuits. The Dillon "upgrade" is not an additional-capability upgrade, as is the new Hornady PM linkage. When Hornady rolled in the new expanding PM linkage on their presses, they increased the price of the press accordingly. Do you really think they should give it to buyers of older, less-expensive presses for free?

Andy

 

[1911user]

I think the ideas behind the new-style dillon dies is to allow easy cleaning without losing the die settings and be cheaper to make. The seat and crimp dies use the same simple outside die body and the internal parts (seat or crimp) that clip in are cast instead of machined IIRC. They are good for people who set them and load 10K+ rounds without a setting change. They are more work to get the seating and crimping initially set and for changing settings often. I've recently switched to hornady dies for just about everything mainly for the seating die design and overall die quality (subjective). My crimp dies are older style Lee taper crimps that have been shortened 1/4 inch to work in station 5 of the LNL-AP press; they work fine.

I think hornady has some kind of magnum rifle upgrade for the powder measure, but I don't shoot belted magnums. That kind of loading is outside the normal realm of progressive loading for most people.

Dillon should sell some kind of micrometer adjustable powder bar, but it'd probably cut into their sales of extra powder measures. So uniquetek gets a nice market making micrometer update kits.

I'm not suggesting that hornady should be giving away new powder drop systems every year or 2 when they make changes. I believe they could have made the new expander inserts work with older drop systems (like the mod using lyman parts), but they chose not to in hopes of people buying a new drop system for $45-50 in addition to the $8 per caliber expander inserts. Just like they don't include any pistol metering capability with the press and obsoleting the low-cost pistol inserts. It seems that some accessories are not really optional.

The dillon powder measure upgrade/mod is free (for safety reasons caused by the 650 but changed for all presses). You can still get the long springs from dillon that are needed to make the press work old-style. There is also a flat metal piece on the measure that requires flattening, but it isn't hard. I used both styles and they worked equally consistent except for the click-clack sound of the new style. The low-primer warning was considered an upgrade from the 550 to 550B and costs $20.

The projector shellplates work on the newer LNL-AP, but aren't recommended with the case feeder. The newer shellplates have a rounded entry into each case slot and seem to work smoother on ejection (and feeding) than the older shellplates (square entry for each slot).

hopefully this thread will give a person doing a search some kind of meaningfull comparison between the presses.

 

[mc223]

I just like Dillon Blue better.

 

[m0ntels]

The Hornady shell plates are interchangeable from projector and LNL-AP presses. I'm not positive, but I think the casefeeder compatible subplate and new primer system for the LNL-AP are also compatible with the projector. At a cost, not unlike upgrading from the Dillon 450 to the 550.

I asked them about this and the response to me was that only the shellplates were interchangable. I bought a Projector for under $100 w/o the priming system because I had heard you could do the parts changes you mentioned. When I called to get parts, they told me they wouldnt work. Now with the added costs to get a priming system, tubes, and the case activated powder drop, I have almost as much into a Projector as I would have needed to get the LNL from Cabelas.

It works, but looking back I should have just saved a few more pennies.

As to my other experiences with customer service from them, I've never gotten anything for free, but they've always been prompt and polite.

I need to call RCBS sometime for some misc die parts, we'll see how that goes.

Randy

 

[1 old 0311]

Hornady YES. Dillon NO.

 

[BigJakeJ1s]

The reduction in manufacturing costs of the Dillon dies applies to the Hornady seating dies as well. They have only a few different die body sizes, and use smaller, custom inserts for the sliding alignment sleeve to customize the generic body to a particular cartridge. Interesting how different companies use a different twist on the same idea. I personally like the performance and flexibility of the Hornady dies better, but if you only ever touch it once in 10k rounds, the Dillon approach is just as good. But that also assumes you never/rarely switch bullet styles (HP, ball, SWC, etc.) or weights.

Thanks for the update on the incompatibility of the casefeeder-subplate with the projector. I'd heard otherwise, but you can't always believe what you hear. I wonder how "incompatible" they are. Maybe just a little difference that can be easily "adjsuted", but they're not 100% drop in compatible.

I think the reason that the old and new PM linkage parts are not interchangeable/compatible is that the new system is designed to allow a separate bottom end to be adjusted for the amount of belling, ala the dillon powder die, and the linkage was simplified to make swapping out pre-set bottom ends easier. It is actually nearer to the RCBS linkage, which is licensed from Hornady.

I really wish Hornady still offered the old style pistol insert that worked with the standard drum. OTOH, I've heard the new insert/drum is more consistent.

I agree, discussing the differences in design in the presses helps others decide for themselves which one they would prefer.

Andy