Hornady Factory Ammo Brass Defect. 4th Loading.

[243winxb]

Headstamp recessed, causing slight gas leaks around primer.

On 4th loading, necks cracking. Out of 20 brass , 8 failed.

After firing, necks were cleaned with fine steel wool. Neck tension .001" to .002" bushing die used.

Contacted Hornady, would not replace brass. Unlike here- https://forum.accurateshooter.com/t...rence-of-head-stamp-on-factory-brass.4039617/

I have winchester 243 Win brass loaded over 20 times, NO annealing & no neck problems.




When buying ammo or new brass, always look for defects like this.

 

[JCSC]

I believe the 6.5 is rumored to kill large primer brass in fairly short order, although I haven’t experienced it personally and I have been thru a couple loadings on Hornady and win brass.

I purchased some lapua SRP brass, just to make sure I was covered in the future or if it was an ongoing issue.

Hornady brass is usually pretty good stuff IMO.

 

[Laphroaig]

In years gone by, the CMP supplied 30-06 ammo for the Garand and Springfield matches at Camp Perry, supposedly to level the playing field. Hornady 168 AMax Garand ammo was given for several years, and when they stopped that requirement they sold it at reduced rates to competitors. That ammo was some of the most accurate stuff that I have ever shot in those rifles. However, the brass was found to be light in weight and was scorned by many people.

I acquired quite a bit of that brass during that period, but have not loaded any of it more than twice and haven't experienced any problems. But I'm not surprised that other chamberings would have a short lifespan.

 

[243winxb]

The surviving 11 brass just got annealed by candle. Lost another by firing today.
Will load again. If necks split from seating bullets like before, to the scrap bucket.

 

[Charlie98]

Hornady brass is usually pretty good stuff IMO.

I've found Hornady brass to be quite light, at least in other chamberings... like .308... with weights all over the map. Hornady brass gets sent to the 'junk brass, but keep it anyway' bin.

Having said that, all I have for loading in 6.5CM is Hornady brass from factory loads... it is what it is. They are going on their 3rd loading with no other prep besides sizing and trimming... and I haven't lost one yet. They are now also feeding an AR-10... so that may change in short order.

 

[Slamfire]

Headstamp recessed, causing slight gas leaks around primer.

On 4th loading, necks cracking. Out of 20 brass , 8 failed..

I don't see why the recessed headstamps are a defect. Certainly not a safety problem as long as headspace is measured from base to shoulder, and if the cartridge case protrusion is correct. That rim is already outside the chamber, outside the primer cup, not in the pressure vessel of the case. It is about as non structural as it gets.

In so far are neck cracking, that's a bummer. Hindsight bias is 100%, maybe the only thing you could have done is anneal after first firing. But, this is a Hail Mary, if the brass was exposed to some sort of corrosion atmosphere during manufacture, than there is really nothing you could have done.

You are in Alabama, yes? High humidity, possibly season cracking maybe? (if you keep your cases next to manure, that would create brass issues in a hot, moist environment.)

 

[Bfh_auto]

Headstamp recessed, causing slight gas leaks around primer.

On 4th loading, necks cracking. Out of 20 brass , 8 failed.

After firing, necks were cleaned with fine steel wool. Neck tension .001" to .002" bushing die used.

Contacted Hornady, would not replace brass. Unlike here- https://forum.accurateshooter.com/t...rence-of-head-stamp-on-factory-brass.4039617/

I have winchester 243 Win brass loaded over 20 times, NO annealing & no neck problems.


View attachment 1095996 View attachment 1095997 View attachment 1095998

When buying ammo or new brass, always look for defects like this.

I've had similar results from factory ammo brass.
However, the Hornady brass for reloading is great in my experience.

 

[Varminterror]

I used Winchester brass for a lot of years for my “non-Lapua, less expensive, but still worthy of precision shooting ammo”. But like many old companies which have died and been reborn under new management, quality and service slipped, and consumer trust goes with it. Here’s a pic of the last experience I had - and forever the last - buying Winchester brass.



The resolution from Winchester after arguing with three different representatives that these should be returnable as defective was that I’d have to pay shipping to return the brass to them and pay a $20 processing fee, to which they would mail back a paper check in 6-8wks rather than simply replacing the product or refunding by any common modern process.

Sometimes things don’t go as planned. If you got 4x from them, you’ve monetized them pretty well, and it’s not really possible for Hornady to discern if you just had a massive chamber neck or seriously overworked your cases, or why the failure happened. That headstamp impression seems like a stretch to have caused primer leak by - the primer bevel is punched with the pocket, not part of the headstamp process.

I have some Hornady creed brass, around 450 pieces left in that particular lot, with 16-17 firings on it currently, fired in a handful of different barrels, and only annealed once when I needed to small base size to change from a relatively loose chamber to a much tighter chambered barrel. I have around 2300-2400 pieces of Hornady Creedmoor brass, the residual of 2500pc, which are all over at LEAST 6x fired now. Until covid, I was buying 500pc per year for my match rifles, even though the previous batch wasn’t actually in need of replacement, shooting about 3x in each of 2 barrels per season - I haven’t had rampant loose pockets even in these 16-17x fired brass, and really no more oddball loose pockets at 8-10x than any other brand.

 

[The Glockodile]

Back when 6.5 Creedmoor started getting popular, I remember early adopters mentioning that Hornady brass was only good for 4 loadings or so - but it was usually due to the Primer Pockets getting loose.

FGMM brass is similarly soft - but not as soft as Hornady's.

 

[EricBu]

Headstamp recessed, causing slight gas leaks around primer.

On 4th loading, necks cracking. Out of 20 brass , 8 failed.

After firing, necks were cleaned with fine steel wool. Neck tension .001" to .002" bushing die used.

Contacted Hornady, would not replace brass. Unlike here- https://forum.accurateshooter.com/t...rence-of-head-stamp-on-factory-brass.4039617/

I have winchester 243 Win brass loaded over 20 times, NO annealing & no neck problems.


View attachment 1095996 View attachment 1095997 View attachment 1095998

When buying ammo or new brass, always look for defects like this.

Generally my experience with any large primer hornady rifle brass. Hornady 338 LM brass is good for 2 loadings, max, before primer pocket won't pass a nogo gauge. Same with .30-06, 308, 243, though I might get 4 out of them. This is new brass, direct from hornady. I won't buy it anymore myself. Lapua brass is my go to for long distance shooting.

 

[Soonerpesek]

The resolution from Winchester after arguing with three different representatives that these should be returnable as defective was that I’d have to pay shipping to return the brass to them and pay a $20 processing fee, to which they would mail back a paper check in 6-8wks rather than simply replacing the product or refunding by any common modern process.

Whenever a company, person, group, or whatever wants to give you back actual money...........that is their way of saying they are tired of dealing with you, and want you to go away......

 

[jmorris]

The resolution from Winchester after arguing with three different representatives that these should be returnable as defective was that I’d have to pay shipping to return the brass to them and pay a $20 processing fee, to which they would mail back a paper check in 6-8wks rather than simply replacing the product or refunding by any common modern process.

Sounds like a blood pressure issue for me. I probably would have just ordered another batch and returned the problem one. After I asked to speak with whomever was their supervisors, supervisor and the issue remained.

Sometimes just an explanation to the CS rep does the trick. Ran out of propane once when extreme cold had the propane service going to homes that were completely out, ran ours out. The glass fuse on the air intake blows the instant the flame dies and the company did not want to send me a replacement because I was not a certified technician. After I went as high up, they stopped forwarding me to their supervisor, I explained (nicely) that I did repair it temporarily (Mrs. Morris doesn’t do cold showers) with a piece of aluminum but didn’t feel like their product was designed in a way, I felt safe leaving it like that and I would like to purchase the correct safety device, so I didn’t have to light it every time I wanted hot water and turn it back off after. If they refused, I would just go buy a new unit swap the part and return it and now they would have an additional unhappy owner of their product, in the same boat. In a polite “matter of fact” please/thank you tone. She sent me two next day air and would not accept payment.

 

[243winxb]

I don't see why the recessed headstamps are a defect.

On firing, the primer backs out .003" to .005" The bolt face cant reach the primer to push it back in, flat with the case head. The firing pin may reseat most primers?
Gas leakage on 2 brass.

There can be defects in all brands, i think.

 

[Varminterror]

Whenever a company, person, group, or whatever wants to give you back actual money...........that is their way of saying they are tired of dealing with you, and want you to go away......

There was no way to receive a replacement directly from Winchester, as they don’t sell reloading brass consumer-direct.

 

[Varminterror]

I probably would have just ordered another batch and returned the problem one. After I asked to speak with whomever was their supervisors, supervisor and the issue remained.

Sometimes just an explanation to the CS rep does the trick.

I guess I should have transferred the call to you to manage for me.

I spoke with the first rep’s manager, and then their service division manager. I explained the defect to the first rep which simply responded that “flash holes are punched and sometimes do have burrs, that’s not a defect.” After asserting this isn’t a “burr,” but rather the flash hole is shaped like a triangle - very obvious the punch was bent. I spoke with their manager, which regurgitated the same until I sent the photos I shared above to illustrate it’s not flashhole burrs - so then they advanced me to speak with the service group manager to actually process the return - who actually seemed to have maybe handled a cartridge case in real life at least once. I shared that over half of the 4 bags of brass I’d bought had this issue, they accepted the return… but could only offer refund, as they don’t sell brass consumer direct. The group manager DID accept that I could cull out the non-defective brass and only return the defects (about 1/2 of each bag was defective, so I COULD almost make 2 complete bags which could have been used).

So my option was to order or buy more from a retailer and wait 2 months for the paper check to still not be whole because I had to pay ~$40 to get it done… for ~$120 worth of brass… Not wanting to risk being delivered more defective brass, I went to a few retailers across a handful of states as I traveled for business over the next few weeks and through the bag could see the same defect - not just in the specific single lot of my original bags but in at least 2 other lot numbers as well. So I didn’t buy more.

The issue isn’t in bad service necessarily - other than the first rep which insisted crooked and triangular flashholes were simply “burrs,” but rather that they had a rampant quality issue with no mechanism to actually get it fixed - my option was to simply take the risk to buy more and hope they weren’t also defective, and of course, taking the loss on the returns since return shipping is on the customer, plus a $19.99 processing fee…

Hornady shipped me the wrong bullets once - a factory direct order. They sent an RMA with shipping on their cost and since it was for a reloading class I was teaching, they sent the replacements before I had even shipped the original returns - issue corrected within days, with no risk and no loss to me as the consumer other than my time.

 

[jmorris]

No thanks on the dealing with CS as a job. One thing is for sure, you know when it’s exceptional.

I wish Dillon would expand to sell household appliances, trucks, tractors, heck even burgers. That way, next time I’ve used that one up, they would give me another one for free.

 

[AJC1]

No thanks on the dealing with CS as a job. One thing is for sure, you know when it’s exceptional.

I wish Dillon would expand to sell household appliances, trucks, tractors, heck even burgers. That way, next time I’ve used that one up, they would give me another one for free.

My experience with rcbs has been that way. I even have the die makers phone number and schedule. I wish hogden get their act together with testing and data with all of their acquisitions.

 

[Varminterror]

Back when 6.5 Creedmoor started getting popular, I remember online trolls and brass snobs who had never touched Hornady brass in their life mentioning that Hornady brass was only good for 4 loadings or so - but it was usually due to the Primer Pockets getting loose.

Fixed it for you.

Hornady was making large primer rifle brass for high pressure cartridges long before the 6.5 came out. Folks talk all the time about how soft it is - and it IS softer than Lapua, and surely doesn’t last as long. But the difference isn’t 4 firings, it’s over a dozen, to dozen and a half with most short action cartridges, while Lapua might get 2 dozen to 30.

 

[BigAlShooter]

Seeing those Winchester primer holes offshoot like that made me go check the 2 bags I just bought in 30-06. I haven't opened them yet but I checked about 10 of them through the bag and none looked defective. I guess I got lucky.

The reason I bought them is the Hornady 30-06 brass I had already had one cracked neck after first firing and I don't think I have even shot 100 yet. It was shot in a Garand with a new Criterion barrel with a pretty tame load. That is the first cracked neck I have found in thousands of reloads.

 

[Charlie98]

Here’s a pic of the last experience I had - and forever the last - buying Winchester brass.

For many years, Winchester was one of my 'go-to' brass headstamps... for that matter, some of my oldest rifle brass is Winchester, and still in service. When I got back into the .30-30 game, I picked up 100 Winchester .30-30 cases, thinking it would be just like their old stuff. Not so much. At this point, I keep the old Winchester stuff separated from the new Winchester stuff... and I won't be surprised if the old cases outlast the new cases.