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Hornady LnL AP case feeder - cases tipping

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by milanuk, Jan 22, 2009.

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  1. milanuk

    milanuk Member

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    Hello,

    My LnL AP is finally whole! Picked up a (very) lightly used LnL AP around the middle of December and *finally* found a place (Natchez SS) that had the case feeders in stock and not backordered (and continually slipping further out). Got the case feeder in yesterday, finished up putting it together this morning after work.

    Everything seems to be working just ducky, it's filling the tube with .223 Rem brass like clockwork.

    The only (small) fly in the ointment is that some of the cases tip as the pusher tip slides them into the shell plate. Not every time, and sometimes worse than others (some only a little cockeyed, some completely fall over). I went back and re-read the destructions, which said to adjust the cam wire some more. Did that. Still had problems (not as bad). Did some digging online (including here)... saw more of the same (adjust the cam wire). Did that again - it's officially all the way bottomed out, no more threads left, and it still tips the cases every once in a while.

    It sure *looks* like the cases might be tipping right about the time they make the transition from the case feeder platform onto the shell plate and cross the groove for the retainer spring - and go over the spring (sits just the teensiest bit proud). Right now I can 'fix' the problem most of the time by just keeping an eye out and tapping the offending cases back upright before reversing the stroke of the handle to rotate the shellplate on the up stroke. It's not really the 'fix' I'm looking for long term, though.

    Any thoughts or suggestions would be much appreciated.

    Monte
     
  2. BigJakeJ1s

    BigJakeJ1s Member

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    How sturdy is your bench? If it is wiggling around as you operate the press, that will cause problems.

    Andy
     
  3. milanuk

    milanuk Member

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    The bench is reasonably sturdy... more so than a lot of the ones I see in videos on YouTube where people operate presses bolted to what looks like a scrap of 3/4" ply... :rolleyes:

    After messing with this thing some more... it seems like a combination of the feeder wire along with timing of the shell plate. I finally got the one pawl adjusted to where it lines the case up under station #1 (sizing die) reliably... the other one that controls lining the shell plate up with the case feeder seems to be giving me fits now.

    There isn't really any more adjustment left on the case feeder wire, but the pusher is running the cases into the shell plate before the notch is lined up all the way, along with the cases sometimes catching on the retainer spring.

    Thanks,

    Monte
     
  4. Master Blaster

    Master Blaster Member

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    Check the bolt in the middle of the shell plate, it should be screwed down finger tight.

    Tha tipping is being cause by the shell plate bolt unscrewing itself, the larger gap between the shell plate and the base is letting the cartridges tip sometimes. eventually as it unscrews it will affect the indexing too.
     
  5. Borg

    Borg Member

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    Sounds like you might have to adjust the pawls to get the timing right for all the spaces in the shell plate. Go back to your instruction book and do little reading.
    When you adjust the pawls, do it in very small amounts, watch the case pusher as it slides the case to the shellplate, to see if it's trying to push the case in before or after the slot is lined, that will tell you which pawl to adjust.
    Borg
     
  6. milanuk

    milanuk Member

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    Thats the problem... I operated the press a bit, adjust the pawls in small increments per the manual, then operate it some more. Everything works fine for some random number of cases, anywhere from two to twenty, then it starts messing up and getting out of time again. Make another small adjustment, and it seems to work fine for a while again... then it'll screw up again. I'm starting to question whether the setting on the pawls is *holding* or whether it is migrating on its own. *Something* is screwed up seven ways to Sunday.
     
  7. Borg

    Borg Member

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    Is the tip of the case slider is tight and adjusted right? It can be fine tuned. Have you checked the corners of the shellplate to make sure that there isn't any burrs and the cases can slide in easy?
    Borg
     
  8. lgbloader

    lgbloader Member

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    Try giving Hornady a call and see what they have to say.

    LGB
     
  9. realbuffdriver

    realbuffdriver Member

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    Milanuk,

    Did you resolve this issue with cases tipping? I am having the same problem as the case in station 5 starts upward toward the seat/crimp die. The case retaining spring begins its retraction and slips off the case rim and underneath the case, tipping it and causing a stoppage as the unseated bullet strikes the edge of the seating die instead of proceeding smoothly in.

    Please advise. Thanks!

    RealBuffDriver
     
  10. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator Staff Member

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    Yep, get it adjusted just right.
     
  11. milanuk

    milanuk Member

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    No luck as of yet. Called Hornady, their response was typical of what I figured it would be from various posts that I've seen here and else where... 'Adjust the cam wire'. No kidding, thanks I read the manual, *told* you I read the manual, there *is* no more adjustment on the cam wire unless I get out my tap-n-die set and thread it further. I probably need to call back and see about getting ahold of an actual technician, vs. a front-line help desk flunky reading from a script. As it is, probably 80-90% of the cases tip as they cross that gap in the subplate. I can't quite tell if it's the case rim catching on the gap, or the case hitting the leading edge of the entrance to the shell plate down low while the case feeder pusher tip hits it 'high' and knocking it down. At this point, I pretty much have to baby-sit that part pretty much all the time to keep the cases in the shell plate - found out the press has enough leverage and enough things going on to mask the 'feel' that a case out of shell plate will pretty much get squarshed flat with no hesitation whatsoever ;)
     
  12. Borg

    Borg Member

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    Check to see if it's the same slot on the shell plate, mark the one it seems to happen at. could be one it milled out of spec.
    You didn't say which way the cases were tipping, right, left, or toward the center. right and left is a timing problem, forward could be bent rim on the case, or burr on the sub plate. Also, don't try to use a bent retainer spring.
    I have one slot off a bit, but have marked it and when I get to that one I slow the stroke and it works fine.
    Work the ram without cases slow so you can watch the slider and plate timing, then at a medium speed, like when loading, might tell you something.

    HTH
    Borg
     
  13. realbuffdriver

    realbuffdriver Member

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    Mine tip every time, every case. It's definitely a design issue with the LnL. I spoke with Hornady tech support today. Very nice, but kind of told me that they don't recommend seating at station 5.

    Station 5 has kind of been the bane of the LnL from the beginning, hasn't it? First the case eject wire and problems with some crimp dies. Now this. Tech support's suggestion to me was to use the powder through expander die and seat in station 4. I am going to give it a try, but I haven't heard good things...

    RealBuffDriver
     
  14. Borg

    Borg Member

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    The new EZ eject should take care of that problem.
    I haven't used the fifth station, don't crimp anything.
    Borg
     
  15. realbuffdriver

    realbuffdriver Member

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    I have the EZ-Ject. This is not an eject problem, the cases eject just fine. The problem is the case retainer spring slipping underneath the case rim and tipping the case. Here is a picture of the problem:

    [​IMG]
     
  16. WV_Vizsla

    WV_Vizsla Member

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    Do you have more than one retainer spring?
    Midway sells a three pack, currently on backorder. If you have several springs, check / compair their size and tension. Strech one a bit, easy does it. I have always recieved great support from Doug and Dave at Hornady.

    I always polish my shell plate's holder section with a buffing wheel and compound. Helped once, so I aways do it now.

    I wrench tighten the plate nut to keep it flat. Watch for the shell slider getting tweeked if in the way during tightening.
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2009
  17. milanuk

    milanuk Member

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    I'm not having problems @ station #5... my problems are @ station #1:

    PICT0032.jpg

    PICT0033.jpg

    PICT0035.jpg
     
  18. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator Staff Member

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    For the tilt on the 5th station like realbuffdriver posted, I looked at my Projector, which does not suffer this ailment. The only difference I see is where the base drops off allowing the spring to go down under the case. It is earlier than the LNL in the pic, so the spring is flat under the case and not on a downhill slope.

    I drew a line where the Projector is cut out at. That is what I would do to fix that problem. Cut it like the Projector. If it was me. There also looks to be some burrs under the spring that need to be removed. I have an LNL on the way, not the ezject, so if it suffers this ailment, that is what I will do.

    [​IMG]

    Something is out of whack with milanuk's 1st station, but it is hard to tell what from the pics. The case rim is not going under the shellplate, that's for sure.
     

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  19. realbuffdriver

    realbuffdriver Member

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    WV Vizsla, I think you are on to something there! I do in fact have extra retainer springs, so I carefully stretched the one that I've been using--it went back on the press noticeably looser, but still holds the cases in place. When cycling empty brass, my cases still tip, but with a bullet in place, the weight is enough to hold off the now weaker spring and voila: no tipping!

    Not declaring victory just yet, but it looks promising. I will need to try it on a full production run.

    Thanks, WV Vizsla, and all others who have joined the thread. Milanuk, please excuse my taking the thread on a quick joyride. I promise to examine case feeding in detail as soon as my feeder arrives.

    Cheers,

    RealBuffDriver
     
  20. milanuk

    milanuk Member

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    No problem. I thought for a minute there was some confusion about which station I was having issues with - probably has something to do with being on night shift last night and tonight... ;)

    One notch of the shell plate has a chip out of it on the leading edge - no idea how the heck I managed that, but oddly enough, the problem doesn't seem to follow that defect. It'll work flawlessly when I operate the press slooooowly... then I speed up, and as it starts to dick up, I slow down... and it keeps screwing up, then it'll stop and just work smoothly. I really can't pin down a definitive rhyme or reason to what is causing the problem. Whenever I have the video camera handy, it works fine. Maybe I just need to keep the camera on the tripod pointed at the press!
     
  21. Borg

    Borg Member

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    milanuk;
    Your timing is off just a tad by the looks of the way the case tips over to the left. Looks like you need to advance the pawls or maybe adjust the pusher more towards you.
    I had the similar problem when first set up, but adjusted both to get it just right.
    Borg
     
  22. bobotech

    bobotech Member

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    milanuk, I was going to say the same thing as Borg. Your timing is off on either the pawls or the timing of the v-block. If the timing on the pawls is good, then the v-block is advancing the case TOO soon.

    Adjust the threads on the v-block wire so that the v-block enters the shell plate a little bit later and see if that solves the problem.
     
  23. milanuk

    milanuk Member

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    If you are talking about the cam wire, I think I made it pretty clear that there *is* no more adjustment short of threading the rod further. Are you suggesting I thread that rod some more?

    If you are talking about the vee-block, I have to admit I've seen reference to 'adjusting' it, but can't really see how - it's not really an eccentric hole or slot so when I tighten the screw attaching it to the pusher arm it looks like it goes to pretty much the same spot every time.
     
  24. Borg

    Borg Member

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    See the allen screw on the top of the V block, loosen it and you can push the V side to side( a little) and retighten.
    On slowing down the forward motion of the block, you raise the angled cam wire, not lower it.
    Borg
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2009
  25. bobotech

    bobotech Member

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    Yes, you raise the wire, not lower it. If its all the way down, its probably entering the shell plate too early and causing problems.

    Also might want to try a different veeblock? Smaller one perhaps?
     
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