Quantcast
  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Hornady LNL powder issues

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by mckey, Jul 4, 2011.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. mckey

    mckey Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2010
    Messages:
    20
    Location:
    Michigan
    Anyone else had problems with their LNL ap press throwing inconsistent powder charges?. I purchased the press new last summer and have had issues from day one even after cleaning the case activated powder drop,powder measure tube & pistol rotor at least a half dozen times with hornady oneshot dry lube as well as non-chlorinated brake parts cleaner to make sure I've removed the anti-rust tarnish film that hornady applied at the factory.

    My powder problem begins when I try to run the press as a progressive
    (shell in each station) then eveything goes to hell.For example I have the press set-up for 9mm using winchester 231 powder. I verify the set-up charge using a single cartridge that throws 4.2 grains consistenly validated on two different calibrated electronic scales.

    Then run 20 shells through the press as a progressive and this is the results I get.......

    1 4.52 gr 2 6.20 3 2.32 4 4.36 5 4.80 6 4.04 7 4.50 8 1.0 9 8.00 10 7.9 11 3.34 12 5.30 13 3.96 14 3.66 15 3.88 16 3.88 17 3.92
    18 4.72 19 4.72 20 4.32

    As you can see this is a big problem since the max load per the speer # 14 manual is (4.5gr) using 124 gr hp bullets.Win 231 powder meters very well and before I start loading I usually run some powdered graphite through the hopper.........I tried using a spare hornady powder dispenser as well as a RCBS with the same results.I've had hornady send me another 9mm shell plate thinking it maybe warped but it didn't help.

    I'd had a few squib loads with the bullet lodged in the barrel and at this point I just don't feel confident using the press without weighing every single round :banghead:

    What's worse is I purchased a hornady case feeder that sits on the floor of my reloading room because I can't use it with this press........ Anyone with any ideas what's going on I'm all ears and would appreciate any help.:fire:
     
  2. nofishbob

    nofishbob Member

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2008
    Messages:
    395
    Location:
    Copper Canyon, TX
    Hi mckey-

    Sorry you are having problems.

    I tried to see if there was a pattern in the sequence of your powder drops.

    Specifically, I was trying to see if heavy drops followed light drops.

    Thinking one step at a time, if you have consistent drops while setting up (maybe 10 in a row), but inconsistent while loading progressively, I think that the powder(for whatever reason) is hanging up in the drop tube/bushing.

    If it was bridging in the hopper, you would only get light drops, never heavy.

    I suggest loading progressively as a test, but absolutely confirm that there is no powder stuck downstream of the rotor after every drop, maybe by tapping on it or sticking a thin straw up the tube.

    If there IS powder hanging up in the tube, my guess is that you will be able to work out a solution pretty quick.

    A final thought is to try a different batch of 231 if you have not already.

    Good luck!

    Bob
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2011
  3. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2006
    Messages:
    45,606
    Location:
    Alabama
    Very strange, as W231 meters well.

    Did you get all the oil etc out of the measure and that drop tube expander thing it uses?

    W231 should meter +/1 .1 Gr.

    Are you using the large insert meant for rifle charges?

    Welcome to THR
     
  4. BYJO4

    BYJO4 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2010
    Messages:
    1,776
    My powder measure drops almost dead on round after round. As per the above post, do you have the pistol rotor and insert in your powder measure? If you do, then I would call Hornady tech support and let them resolve the problem.
     
  5. Waldog

    Waldog Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2007
    Messages:
    241
    Win 231 meters very consistently in my LNL. Actually it meters very consistently in ANY powder measure. Could it be you are inconsistent in the operation or your press? I have found that if I momentarily pause (like 1/2 - 1 second) at the bottom of each press stroke; this gives time for your charger to flow from the powder measure thru the powder die and into the case. If you you try to go too fast you can "short change" your powder drop without realizing it. Try to be consistent and "pause" at the bottom of your lever throw.
    It's worth a try.

    Another thought! Are you sure you are using the PISTOL ROTOR you powder measure? You have nothing but problems if you try to throw those lite charges with a Rifle Rotor.
     
  6. mckey

    mckey Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2010
    Messages:
    20
    Location:
    Michigan
    nofishbob, thanks for taking the time to respond to my dilemma, My first diagnosis was that maybe the powder funnel case expander used in the station 2 powder drop to flare the case mouth and free up space for the RCBS lock-out die was putting too much pressure on the shell plate but I've since gotten the hornady PTX powder through expander with the measure stop with no improvement.

    I usually take the powder measure apart every other loading and clean the rotor, case activated powder drop & drop tube......I've even went the extra step by putting the pistol rotor and drop tube in my vibratory case cleaner with walnut hulls thinking I may has missed some of the preservent flim.

    I've tried different powders with no changes for example I set-up a powder charge of 4.0 gr Bulleyes and ran 10 cartridges in single stage manually indexing the shell through each station........

    1 4.10 6 4.10
    2 4.10 7 4.18
    2 4.10 8 4.20
    3 4.16 9 4.10
    4 4.08 10 4.08

    same set-up but ran 20 cartridges as progressive with shell in station here's the results.....

    1 2.30 6 4.00 11 3.02 16 6.16
    2 7.18 7 5.44 12 4.32 17 4.10
    3 3.72 8 2.26 13 4.10 18 4.88
    4 3.16 9 2.36 14 4.90 19 2.12
    5 4.10 10 5.14 15 3.16 20 1.04

    I find this very weird that it throws consistent charges with a single cartridge indexed through each station but as soon as theirs a shell in the first three stations the throws are eradicate.

    I went throught the die set-set again using the hornady instructional DVD thinking I might have made a mistake but everything is set-up correct.
     
  7. gregj

    gregj Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2008
    Messages:
    387
    Location:
    N. Va.
    I had inconsistent powder drops with mine, until I realized I didnt have a pistol rotor, and was trying to load 9mm with the standard rotor insert.

    Here is a pic of the pistol rotor, yours should look like this.

    [​IMG]
     
  8. mckey

    mckey Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2010
    Messages:
    20
    Location:
    Michigan
    Yes that's the pistol rotor I use I also have the micrometer metering insert I've tried.[​IMG][/IMG]
     
  9. wild willy

    wild willy Member

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2008
    Messages:
    371
    Is the bracket around the spring something new?
     
  10. dbarnhart

    dbarnhart Member

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2011
    Messages:
    524
    Location:
    Phoenix, AZ
    If you take the powder measure off the press and operate it manually does the problem go away?
     
  11. pdosh

    pdosh Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2011
    Messages:
    41
    I too got a L-N-L last year and had two squibs and one obvious overcharge. Blew my extractor off a SIG 226. I'm loading CLAYS for 40 Minor. I determined that my powder measure wasn't tight. I called the factory and they sent me a thin spacer to put under the powder measure bushing. By the way, I have installed a RCBS powder check die. It will stop the press if you get a double charge or a squib.
     
  12. TxBobS

    TxBobS Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2011
    Messages:
    162
    Take the bracket off unless you are using PTX dies. Are you sure the rotor is going all the way to the top?
     
  13. raddiver

    raddiver Member

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2010
    Messages:
    215
    Location:
    Louisville Kentucky
    It looks like he is using PTX. Looks like a powder cop in the next station.
    One thing to check, My oal's would vary when i set the seating die with only a shell in that station. Once all stations had shells, my OAL change because of the pressure differences on the shellplate. Once i set it with shells in all stations, it worked itself out. Maybe try ditching the PTX and seat/crimp in the same station for a test?


    Its interesting. Ill ponder on it tonight/tomorrow.
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2011
  14. TxBobS

    TxBobS Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2011
    Messages:
    162
    Oh right raddiver. I see the separate crimper in there now.

    Is the rotor traveling all the way to the top?
     
  15. cfullgraf

    cfullgraf Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2010
    Messages:
    6,922
    Location:
    East TN
    As said, consistency of operation is important.

    With my L-N-L, I find the rotor in the powder measure sticks when squeaky clean and causes erratic charges and operation. I have cleaned off all of Hornady's rust preventative but now spritz a little dry lube on the face of the drum. It smoothest out the operation. Make sure you allow the carrier to flash off before adding powder to the measure.

    In theory, the graphite coating on the powder would provide the lubrication and maybe in time, mine will be there. So, another point, once all the wet lubricant is removed, I would not clean the parts of your measure.

    I find a powder baffle important with the use of a drum style measure. Make sure the openings in the baffle do not line up with the cavity in the drum. A line drawn between the two openings in the baffle should be parallel with the rotational axis of the drum. I have been playing with two baffles in my Hornady measure, the second spaced about an inch above the lower one. But, except for the feel good factor, I am not sure the second baffle has a noticeable benefit.

    Some folks operate their measures just fine without the baffle.
     
  16. HK SD9 Tactical

    HK SD9 Tactical Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2009
    Messages:
    117
    Location:
    Florida
    It's for the PTX (Powder Through Expanders) that go into the quick change die on the case activated powder drop instead of the stock bushings. The use of the PTX allows powder and belling at the same time. The bracket (officially called the PTX Powder Measure Stop, part number 290049) supports this by not allowing the drum and insert to over rotate placing an undue stress on the linkage. It acts as a stop and you can use the adjustment screws on the stop to adjust the belling of the case. The stop is not required but it will prevent excess stress on the linkage.

    I had a problem setting up my 9mm. I had to adjust the level of the mounting clamp on the powder measurer to allow the placement of the bracket. Once that was accomplished, I was able to adjust satisfactorily the belling that takes place by adjusting the screws on the stop. You have to be careful though because it can cause the drum not to rotate fully.
     
  17. chevy_dmax

    chevy_dmax Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2009
    Messages:
    54
    Location:
    Kansas City, MO
    As mentioned, make sure the rotor is traveling to top and dumping the full charge out of the rotor.

    Mine will wiggle loose and eventually, if not watched, will completely "unlock", allowing the case to lift the powder thrower/bushing out of the press, this also changes the charge weight.

    In my LnL, 231 is very consistent, +/- .1 gr at most, but usually dead nuts on. I, however, do not use the ptx setup.

    I am also curious to know, as asked by another member, if you remove the thrower and manually dump some charges, do they weight consistently out of the press?

    Bill.
     
  18. Shmackey

    Shmackey Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    1,477
    Location:
    Colorado
    FWIW, my LnL powder measure is remarkably consistent, even with extruded rifle powders. It's even dead on with Trail Boss. The only powder I've tried so far that has given it trouble is Unique, and even then it was nothing crazy.

    I don't use the powder-through expanders. I got the powderfunnels.com one, but even then it was too annoying to dial it in for each caliber--and I prefer to do each step as separately as possible.
     
  19. Shmackey

    Shmackey Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    1,477
    Location:
    Colorado
    This is the big question.
     
  20. mckey

    mckey Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2010
    Messages:
    20
    Location:
    Michigan
    No I never tried to disconnect the case activate powder linkage and manually dump powder in the shell.I did try running the press without the powder funnel or PTX expander in the powder drop tube just using the hornady expander die in station #2 before the powder drop and no change.

    The press is boxed up and being shipped back to hornady I'll let them figure it out.......my patience has wore thin and I'm tried of messing with it:banghead:.

    Thanks to all that took the time to offer suggestions and advice.I'll post an update after I get the press back from hornady
     
  21. chevy_dmax

    chevy_dmax Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2009
    Messages:
    54
    Location:
    Kansas City, MO
    You wouldn't have to remove the capd linkage. Just unlock it in its' bushing and tip the rotor to dump a charge into a scale pan.

    Sorry we couldn't get it worked out.

    Please keep us updated.

    Bill.
     
  22. wild willy

    wild willy Member

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2008
    Messages:
    371
    I don't have PTX stop.Have the regular powder insert.Would have liked to had a picture with the press handle down. Any one of you with the micrometer insert where his is set at look right for around 4.1 of 231.Shame you boxed it up lot of good help on here.I think we could have worked it out.
     
  23. Blue68f100

    Blue68f100 Member

    Joined:
    May 25, 2011
    Messages:
    3,004
    Location:
    Piney Woods of East Texas
    Do you have the Pistol Piston installed or the Rifle one. When I bought mine years ago it only came with the rifle.

    The PTX can cause problems if it's not full stroking. Hornady redesign the PTX for the 9mm. Their original design would not go deep enough in the brass to expand properly. So confirm you have the newer design. The old design had to be cut down and a cone spacer added to make up the difference.
     
  24. mckey

    mckey Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2010
    Messages:
    20
    Location:
    Michigan
    Here's a few pics I took last week when I was in contact with hornady support a few show the press in the up position.[​IMG][/IMG]


    [​IMG][/IMG]


    [​IMG][/IMG]


    [​IMG][/IMG]


    [​IMG][/IMG]
     
  25. wild willy

    wild willy Member

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2008
    Messages:
    371
    Do you have any of the powder measure when the handles down
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page