Hornady Lock-n-load AP

[roadappletx]

Hello folks!

I recently purchased a new L-n-L progressive from Hornady. The machine is built like a tank, and looks like it will provide service long after I'm gone. Set-up was not too painful; I did a bone-head move and bent the cartridge catch bin bracket. Hornady sent me a new one. This was the part used with the casefeeder. The casefeeder will only handle about 60 45ACP's at a time. Any more, and it will not turn. I adjusted the clutch on the casefeeder plate, and it still does this. The adjustment screw, that moves the pivot block, was too short. Everything I tried would not make it work to move the pivot block enough to drop the case. I wound up pressing a spent .38 Spl case on to the adjustment screw. Through some trial and error, it works now.

The press seems to do everything right. The casefeeder occasionally drops a case that bounces into the finished cartridge bin. The priming system places a primer, correct side up, on the priming ram every time. The problem is the large primers will not seat to flush on any cases that accept large primers.:banghead: I spoke to a tech at Hornady, and he's sending me a new primer punch / ram assembly. Small primers barely seat the primers flush. I want to seat them all just below flush. If anyone knows a fix for this, please let me know! The powder measure, with the micrometer handgun insert, throws very consistantly. I set up for 5 grains of W231. I measured each throw for 15 throws. There were two 5.1 throws, and the rest were 5.0. I checked about every ten to fifteen rounds while loading 45's, and they all showed 5.0 grains. I will be very happy if I can get the primers to seat just below flush. Hornady has been good to me, and their products are top shelf. That said, I'm thinking about buying a Dillon 550b, set it up for large primers, and leave the Hornady set for small primers. I got to use a friend's Dillon 550b in Colorado, many years ago. I liked it a lot, but I have also been very happy with all of my Hornady gear

I do recommend the Hornady, but it seems mine had parts that were too short to do it's job properly. The pivot block plunger, and the primer seating ram in the large primer punch assy. I am hoping the new primer punch assy will solve the problem. I hope this information will be useful to someone. If anyone has had similar problems, please let me know.

I have been looking up every primer problem posts I can find, and the majority of the problems have been missed primers, up-side down primers, and primers being crushed side-ways. I did glue a dime on the frame under the primer punch assy, but the threaded housing of the assy is what is bottoming out. It looks like the primer ram is too short on the bottom. The top is flush where it needs to be, for machine clearance.

Thanks for any help!

Jim

 

[k4swb]

Take the primer punch assembly out of the press. Look to see if the plunger will go into the housing past flush with the bottom of the nut. If so completely disassemble it and take whatever it needs off of the nut surface so that the plunger is forced deeper in the seating stroke.
It SHOULD take VERY LITTLE material removal to add some more stroke to the plunger. Be very careful when taking the unit apart as things are under spring pressure by a very tiny spring and held in place by a just as tiny E clip.

If you try to do this without taking it apart and just trying to hold the plunger up and grinding on the nut surface while trying not to grind anything on the plunger itself with everything still under spring tension, GOOD LUCK!

Mine was seating to just flush which was OK but I didn't like it and wanted them just a tad deeper so I called Hornady. They had no real solution. I asked about doing this and the tech said, "Yes, I can see where that would work."

 

[roadappletx]

Thank You, k4swb!

I will look at it. It does make sense. Either shorter nut, or longer plunger. Thanks again!


Jim

 

[roadappletx]

I looked at the plunger assy again, and the bottom of the plunger goes into the nut to just flush. It looks like the spring is fully compressed. I wonder if I could shorten the spring by 1 to 1 1/2 coils, and grind the nut down?

 

[k4swb]

Remove the spring and see if it actually what is stopping the plunger from going a couple of thousands deeper. If so, shorten it some. If not, well I'm not sure what to do.

Get Hornady to send you another one and if it also won't work to your satisfaction, use one to play with. maybe putting a touch of JB Weld or something on the bottom of the stem and the taking it down to where it works to your liking.

As I said, mine worked OK but I felt another 2-3 thousands would suit me better, and it does.

 

[roadappletx]

I took it apart and it looks like the best solution would be to bore the hole, from the bottom, another 2-3 thousands, as well as remove material from the bottom of the nut. Hornady is sending another. The tech first stated that they are all the same, and later stated that I may have received "a short one." He said that it has happened before.

Thanks for your help! I really appreciate it!

 

[k4swb]

Deepening the hole a little and taking some off the nut surface sounds like a good fix also. Thanks for that info.

I had a problem with my first Hornady PTX die and called them to see what to do about it. I told the tech what it would do and more important what it would not do. He acted like i was doing something wrong but since then they have modified the PTX dies and added a piece of mechanical linkage to the powder measure setup. This seems to fix the exact problems I was having that they told me didn't exist.

Maybe they will come up with a simple adjustment for the primer seating depth if we pester them enough.

 

[roadappletx]

I hope they do come up with a solution to the primer seating problem. I like your idea of somehow making the assy adjustable. I was thinking along those lines just earlier today. Maybe use some kind of washer system? The nut and plunger would have to be lengthend for that to work. Of course they could just tighten manufacturing tolerances.

I received the replacement Large primer punch assy in the mail today. It appears that they machined off material from the bottom of the nut. The plunger will now go in past flush on the bottom of the assy. I tried priming 4 .45 ACP cases and they now set to just flush. I think I may try some modifications on the old assy, and see where I am then.

Thanks for your help!


Jim

 

[spoogie]

Would a thin washer work, under the nut? Thin, as in, aluminum can or tin can lid thickness? Or, is that already too thick?

-S

 

[roadappletx]

Spoogie

It would not matter how thick the washer is, because it would only add to the problem. I need to remove material so the plunger can be pushed further.

 

[Knucklehead2]

My LNL had the same problem. Everything suggested I tried with no luck. To see if your plunger is extending enough just place a case in the priming position (without primers) and push the arm back, now try and move the case, is the plunger up into the case primer cavity, if yes then the problem is not the plunger stroke. You know the point on the plunger where it is suppose to dig a small hole in the casting, it may have started at an angle either due to a bump on the casting or the timing was off a wee bit when you set up the press.

The fix for me was to file down the original hole the plunger made. Then check to make sure the press is timed correctly even though the instructions claim it comes timed.
Then you could just start over and should be good.
I went further and used a V-block and center drill to start a new position for the primer plunger on the casting, using a disassembled plunger as the guide.

My press now primes with very little pressure, in fact if I push to hard I seat past .007 checked with a depth mike or an indicator setup I use.

 

[roadappletx]

Thanks Knuck!

The plunger does, indeed, come up into the primer pocket and keeps the shell from being removed. I will experiment with the timing (very, very little increments) and see if that helps. I tried to prime some .308 cases today with Winchester LR primers. They seated just right; slightly below flush. I was using CCI primers (all that I have right now) for large and small pistol. I will try to see if the plunger is being pushed out of alignment. Maybe it just doesn't like CCI primers. The Hornady Tech I spoke with said it should not make any difference in primer brands used. He is sending a sub-plate for me to try. He also stated that he has never heard of this problem before. He might not have, but I have found many posts, on various forums, that have stated they were having the same problems, consulted Hornady, and each one had a different fix. I guess I will try every fix until I find one that works. I love everything about this press, except this primer seating problem.

 

[thump_rrr]

Look at the casting under the sub-plate where the primer punch resides.
You will see a shiney spot where the punch hits.
Hot glue a dime in that spot. If it isn't thick enough then use a nickel instead.

 

[roadappletx]

thump_rrr,
This was the first thing I did. I am thinking that Knucklehead2 may be onto something. I am going to play with the timing, just a little, to see what that does. The dime might be causing the plunger to move at a very small angle off 90 degrees, causing the primer to not start square. I appreciate the feedback, folks. I will seriously consider any suggestions, or thoughts on this matter. I will post the fix when I find it.


Thanks,

Jim

 

[roadappletx]

Knucklehead2

My press now primes with very little pressure, in fact if I push to hard I seat past .007 checked with a depth mike or an indicator setup I use./QUOTE]

I wish I could get mine to seat with very little pressure. It might put the joy back in reloading for me.

You mentioned an indicator setup you use, may I ask what this is, and how it works? I am always ready to learn new tools and techniques.


Thanks,

P.S. Do you own, and or ride a Knuckle? If so, do you have pics? I love old iron!

 

[Knucklehead2]

With all due respect to the techs at Hornady they did their best over the phone to help and sent me stuff that did nothing to fix the problem.
You should be able to seat any brand of primer with ease since I now can. If the plunger has already made a hole in the casting adjusting the timing using the same hole will still start the plunger at an angle and you will wear a hole in your hand trying to seat primers.
A dime will not help you since that is not your problem. You could use a dis-assembled primer punch as a guide but the drill needs to be a close fit, plus you would need a V-block to hold the drill perpendicular to the shell plate since there is very little length in the primer assembly so the drill will just follow the original spot the point made.

The best way, file the hole the point made, then adjust the timing so it is perfect, then you can make a new hole that is in the correct spot.

I have a few lever type indicators, so I set one in a magnetic base, hold the round in a V-block bullet down on a surface plate and run it under the indicator, the reading from the case head to the top of the primer is how many thousands your seated. Not something anyone should invest in I just have the equipment.

No old knuckles-darn

 

[floydster]

The priming system on the LNL EZ ject is a total piece of crap, been there done that, all avenues exhausted, I won't even discuss it anymore--done with it.

 

[dannyd]

So does that mean your going to sell your AP for a good price??

 

[Otto]

Tech I spoke with said it should not make any difference in primer brands used. He is sending a sub-plate for me to try. He also stated that he has never heard of this problem before.

The tech is either pulling your leg or just started working there.
High primers are a common problem with LNL's.

I sent my press back to Hornady twice for high primer seating.
They couldn't fix it either time.

Here's my theory. Primer pockets vary in depth.
Some are deep and some are shallow. Seating a primer in a shallow pocket requires a crush fit.
Hornady LNL's don't possess the mechanical advantage to crush fit a primer (at least mine doesn't).

I realized this after I uniformed several hundred primer pockets making them all the same depth and squaring-up the bottom of the pockets.
Once the pockets where uniformed, all of the primers seated below flush.

I have since changed my routine and prime cases with a RCBS Universal tool. I get a better feel of the seating process and I can prime at my leisure while watching the game.

 

[Knucklehead2]

Otto, I knew from speaking with Hornday techs sending my press back was a waste of effort.
If the primer punch is not perfectly parallel with the primer pocket you lose all mechanical advantage. An easy check is start the priming process slowly and see if your case is tilting, if so then you will never seat a primer with any feel or consistency.

 

[roadappletx]

I received the new subplate from Hornady yesterday. If I were the people at Hornady, I'd fire my quality control department . The subplate that I removed from the press, while kind of rough, looked much, much better than the new one they sent. The new subplate was machined different on the bottom around the ram, and around where the primer seating assembly screws into the subplate. The old subplate also had a recess machined into the bottom where the press ram bolts to the subplate. There were machining, and tool, marks that looked like the piece got away from the machinist. There are burrs on the part that the case-feeder shuttle rides on, making it too rough for the case-feeder shuttle to operate. The shuttle gets stuck, and I was afraid I was going to break it trying to remove the shuttle when it got stuck . I measured both subplates, and could find no difference in thickness where the primer seating assembly screws into the subplate. I'm sending the subplate they sent back to them. Maybe they can melt it down and re-pour it .

The stroke of the primer ram is sufficient to seat the primers. It just seems like the press does not have the leverage to properly seat the primers. I can take primed cases off of the press, and finish seating the primers with a Lee Auto Prime. The Auto Prime fully seats the primers easily, and smoothly, with good feel.

I am going to look into Knucklehead2's suggestion when I put it back together. Right now, I am too frustrated to mess with it much more :banghead:.

I also believe sending it back to Hornady would be a complete waste of time. The tech that told me he had never hear of this problem before, kept repeating that "If you say it's doing that, I believe you." and, "I have never heard of this problem with the Lock-n-load before." I do not know how long we were on the phone, but I tried everything he suggested. That was when he said he would send a new subplate. I'm venting now. I will post if I can get anything to work.

 

[roadappletx]

It was a timing issue. It took several attempts, but I finally got it to seat large, and small, pistol primers to flush (no more). I had to readjust the pawls when I switched to small pistol primers. Funny thing is: The primer punch does not look centered in the primer shuttle, at all, when it is seating the primers best . I did try different brands of primers (CCI, Winchester, and Remington) and it seats them all the same. While the feel of the primer seating is not what I would call "sensitive", I can feel it somewhat now and I can tell if a primer did not seat.

Thank you, Knucklehead2, Otto, dannyd, floydster, thump_rrr, spoogie, and k4swb. I appreciate your help and hope I might be of assistance some day. This is a great forum, and appropriately named The High Road. I have seen other forums where people are told to "use the search option." when they had a question. I do use the search option before I ask, but sometimes I do not know exactly how to ask the question, and "search" turns nothing up. I cannot remember seeing that happen in this forum, in all my years of lurking for information.

I will make sure to share this information with Hornady as well.

Thanks again!


Jim

 

[roadappletx]

I thought I had the primer problem solved, but I was wrong. The primer shuttle hole (that the primer rides in) is not centered on the shuttle. I was loading some 38 spl today, and it started getting hard to seat the primers after just a few (9-10) cases. The primers seating got to be "jerky" with resistance to the handle, and then the handle would pop forward. This happened a few times, and then one primer would not seat. I rotated the case and got the primer to seat. I pulled the case, and found the primer seated in at an angle. The primer shuttle got hung back a couple of times, where I had to remove the primer system to clear/free it. I took it all apart and found slivers of metal around the primer punch. I cleaned it all out and reassembled the primer system. I readjusted the left pawl, and started loading again. I ran into the same thing. The primers would not seat flush. When the pawl was adjusted to seat the primer flush, the punch did not line up with the hole on the shuttle correctly, and started cutting slivers of metal off of the primers again. Upon closer inspection, it seems that neither subplate was machined to fit correctly, and both large and small primers shuttles are not square with the primer punch(es). Extremely poor quality control on Hornady's part. It is looking like I will have to have parts made to fit, if I want to use this press to prime cases. I can use the press to prep brass. I have enough bullets coming from Hornady to pay for the press (I bought alot of Hornady dies). I'll be glad to get my 550 so I can load, instead of working on the press constantly. It's too bad. I really liked all of the stuff I have bought from Hornady over the years. I like their dies, their case prep center, concentricity guage, and the powder measure. The case feeder seems to work well. I don't know if sending it back to Hornady for service will do any good. The last tech I spoke to claimed they had never had "high primer" problems reported before. Hornady is rapidly losing my faith in them. I'm going to see if I can get new primer shuttles made, that will align with the primer punch assembly. I do not know how much this can help, because the entire ram-subplate-shellplate twists to the left some when I push hard on the press handle (like trying to seat a primer). It is just starting to look like the machine was not made right, and did not go through any quality checks before leaving the factory. I am disappointed.

Thanks for all the help.

Jim

 

[floydster]

Well, after filing, sanding ,polishing, honing, deburring all the parts for the primer system I found the primer seating punch on the bottom of the press cross threaded---that was the last straw.
I stripped all of of the priming system from the press, I now use it for decapping and resizing, also charging and seating the bullets and I am ok with that, but-----I certainly not happy with Hornady quality control, and no, I am not sending the press back,too much of a hassle, and yes, I did call Hornady many times for help.
I am just glad I have my Lee presses for backup, and if I were younger, I certainly would invest in Dillon.

That's my story on the LNL E-Z ject.

 

[IMtheNRA]

I went through this very frustrating problem with high primers. It was insulting to hear the tech pretend that he's never heard of high primers before. :banghead:

Very long story short - the press and sample reloaded rounds went back to Hornady THREE times. Step by step, they replaced every part, including the subplate assembly and even the frame itself, and the primers started to seat flush.

High primers reappeared when my old shell plates were refit by Hornady for compatibility with the EZject system. Some plates got warped during the process, which resulted in high primers in some of the shell plate stations. Hornady replaced all the shell plates, and the primers now seat flush.

It took a long time and many trips to the post office, but eventually, Hornady got the primers problem figured out. I think they depend on the fact that most reloaders do not notice or don't care about "slightly" high primers.