Hornady max load vs Hodgdon max load

[GooMan]

I bought Hornady's Handbook of Cartridge Reloading (7th Edition) to go along with the data from the powder manufacturer's website and advice from you guys on here. After we loaded all the 45 ACP jacketed bullets we had we decided to get some 200gr lead SWC bullets. When I got home from lunch my brother had loaded 50 of them and labeled the box they were in. The label surprised me because I printed out the load sheets from Hodgdon's website and was expecting around 5.3 grains of Win 231 but he loaded 6.0 grains. My heart nearly stopped. He went by the Hornady book values which were much higher.

Hornady book shows a max of Win 231 for 200gr SWC = 6.5 gr @ 950 fps
Hodgdon website shows a max of Win 231 for 200gr SWC = 5.6 gr @ 914 fps

6.0gr seems damn high to me, much less 6.5 gr. What's the deal here, who do we need to "listen to"? My brother thinks I'm being paranoid but it seems like the people who make the powder should know more about it. Maybe they post low values due to fear of being sued or something. Thoughts?

Also, how much Win 231 would YOU put behind a 200 gr SWC?

 

[solvability]

I use 5.6gr - it is a good load and accurate in my Glock and Colt. - 6.5 seems like a mistake.

 

[GooMan]

From everything I have read online it seems 5.5 gr of 231 is what alot of people use.

 

[LightningMan]

Cross referencing different manuals, I often find differences in data. I tend to use data from the powder manufacturer over the bullet makers data, but reguardless you should start below max. & work up from there. My 2 cents, yours may vary. LM

 

[Jesse Heywood]

The friend who started me reloading would look through the manuals to locate the highest charge and use it. At that time he had stretched the frames on a Python, a model 27 and two model 29s.

 

[rcmodel]

It is important to realize you are comparing two completely different 185 grain LSW bullets.

The Hornady bullet is soft-swaged lead with knurling filled with dry lube.

Hodgdon very likely used a hard-cast bullet with a single grease groove.

Friction and bore pressure would be different with the two types of bullets used.

rc

 

[GooMan]

It is important to realize you are comparing two completely different 185 grain LSW bullets.

The Hornady bullet is soft-swaged lead with knurling filled with dry lube.

Hodgdon very likely used a hard-cast bullet with a single grease groove.

Friction and bore pressure would be different with the two types of bullets used.

rc

I'm beginning to wonder how anyone gets any useful data at all. :banghead:
Every place I look for data has different cases and primers used with the powder I'm using (Win 231) so that adds to the confusion. Now I find out that when I see data for a 200 gr LSWC there are different types that completely change the equation again. Not sure where to turn at this point. Who would be a "better" source of info, the bullet maker or powder maker?

At this point all I'm trying to do is use the press to make some ammo without destroying a gun and/or me. I'm not worried about improved accuracy or anything like that, I just want to make something that will safely shoot.

I'm really starting to wish I hadn't invested all this money into this.

 

[rcmodel]

It's not as bad as it may seem at this point.

Of all the variables, of course the power used is the #1 thing to look at.
Following that, bullet style & construction plays a bigger role in pressure changes then anything else.

The case brand is probably not nearly as important.
And primer brand makes no difference at all.
(Standard & Magnum primers might)

But, with that said, the first rule of reloading is, Don't start at the Top and work down!

Instead, always start 10% below the max load shown in your data, and work your way up while watching for any signs of high pressure.

In an auto pistol that might be violent ejection slinging empties into low earth orbit.
In a revolver, it might be hard case extraction.

My brother thinks I'm being paranoid

Seems to me your brother needs to be a little more paranoid, and you need to be a little less paranoid!

Kinda meet somewhere in the middle on paranoid, and max load data!

rc

 

[Rodentman]

i often start at the lowest listed powder charge among the various manuals and sometimes I stay at that. I don't reload for hunting, and the low charge may just be where leave it.

 

[GooMan]

My plan was to start just slightly over the minimum charge and work up to nowhere close to the max load. Most of this stuff is just for us to shoot so I don't see the need to hotrod it. It just bothered me that the listed powder charges was so different. I expect some variations but this particular case seemed drastic to me.

 

[fields]

Check overall length for each load. Some load hotter, but longer.

richard

 

[evan price]

I would load 5.2-5.8 grains and call it good. I would say probably- and YMMV, it's your gun- 6.0 would be a max load, it probably would not be a harmful load and would probably be OK to shoot, but if you have any doubt, pull them down.

Did I use "Probably" enough times, there?

Probably so...

 

[moooose102]

imo, anytime you are working up to a max load, that is what you have to do. there are so many books out there, and they are all a little different. lee's manual seems to have the highest powder charges, and i have found, that in many of my guns, their loads are to hot. basicly, when i work up to a max load, i scour through my books (6 of them) and find the highest and lowest "max" load. if it is somewhat close to what i have been shooting, i will start there. if not, then i usually will start somewhere between what i have been shooting, and the lowest max load i have. where depends on how what i have been shooting, is shooting. i know it is not scientific, but experience does help. i do absoloutly limit my trials at the highest max load in my books. i have been to uncharted territories before, by accident, and it is no fun! usually, when the groups open up, it is time to go backwards a notch or two. accuracy is always more important in the real world.

 

[RandyP]

Just my perspective and my intent, since all I'm shooting are paper zombies recreationally (not competetion shooting) rather than even deal with max load, I stay at min - mid load data from any load book. The targets don't know the difference and I get more reloads per tub of powder in the long run. Not that it matters but I too use Win 231 (AKA HP-38)

'IF' I find that a load doesn't cycle in one of my firearms, I'll increase it slowly till it does. Disclaimer - I shoot ONLY plated or jacketed bullets (local range rule), do not shoot in contests, and require only MOD (Minute of Dead) accuracy. I have checked every firearm I own and have scientifically proven that they are ALL more accurate than I am - lol.

Hey, it's worked for me for over 40 years of shooting.

 

[GooMan]

Randy, I fit into eveything you said. That sounds alot like my goals.

Guys, as usual I appreciate all your input and help. I have learned more from this forum than any book or DVD.

 

[Franco]

You are experiencing the same as I have in the last 18 months of reloading. The values are really skewed depending on whether it's a bullet manufacturer's data or a powder manufacturer's data. I use mostly Hodgdon powders and I like to follow their data but it makes me very uneasy when a bullet manufacturer's data is 10% less (which seems significant to me). I always go with the lowest max load and work up from there.