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Hornady PTX and RCBS Lock Out Die

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by Rule3, Oct 10, 2018.

  1. Rule3

    Rule3 Member

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    Do the PTX work as advertised and..................

    The RCBS Lock Out die, once set up it is relatively trouble free or a PITA?? Does it function smoothly or something that needs lots of attention, especially when changing powder charge and/or calibers??
     
  2. Reeferman

    Reeferman Member

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    I use PTX all the time especially for lead 38/357 and 44 special/magnum. I don’t have the RCBS lockout die as I use the Hornady powder cop. I have wanted to try the lockout die but just haven’t got around to getting one. Those that have it seem to like it.
     
  3. Blue68f100

    Blue68f100 Member

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    The PTX works good. The newer ones are a M-die type expander that I've seen. Some of the very early ones were just std expanders, the 9mm is the only one I have that is std. It was the original release in which they got the OAL to short to work, so they provided you with a extender to put on top, to make the correction. I have never updated to the newer style for this one is still working. I have the PTX in all hand calibers I load.
     
  4. Skgreen

    Skgreen Member

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    I use both all the time and don't have any problems,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
    But,,,,,,,, judging by your prior threads,,,, all the trouble you've had with just about everything imaginable,,,,,, Eh, you'd probably be better off without 'em!!!
    :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
     
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  5. higgite

    higgite Member

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    I don’t recall the Hornady PTX ads right offhand, but mine works fine.

    The RCBS lockout die, once set up, is trouble free. You may have to readjust it when you change powder charge. It has a fairly broad bandwidth, so to speak, for any particular setting, but then its purpose is to detect double charges or no charge. Depending on caliber, you might have to change the plunger “foot” that detects powder level. I load 9mm and .45 ACP with mine and change “feet” between calibers. It’s a 2 minute job at most. Here’s a video on adjusting it off press, but once you get the hang of it, on press adjustments are easy. Be aware that it is only intended for straight wall cases, not bottle neck rifle cases.

     
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  6. Rule3

    Rule3 Member

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    Never had no problemos when using my LEE (RED)stuff for the last 100 years!:D:D
     
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  7. Doublehelix
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    Doublehelix Contributing Member

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    I use the RCBS Lock-Out die for all of my pistol caliber rounds (I have bought one for each caliber so I don't have to re-adjust each time). I love mine and hate to be without it.

    As mentioned already, it is designed to detect no-charge and double-charge loads, but it can detect things in between, but don't expect it to detect 0.1 or 0.2 gr. variances.

    I recently had to take mine off of my Dillon XL650 when I added the Mr. Bullet Feeder, but I have just ordered a 2-in-1 seat/crimp die from DAA to try out so I can put the Lock-out die back on. I hate being without it.
     
  8. cfullgraf

    cfullgraf Member

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    Lots of folks like the RCBS Lock out die.

    I studied it carefully a number of years ago. Since I have the capability to load in excess of 10 different cartridges on my L-N-L, the RCBS Lock out die looked like the negatives on frequent set ups far out weighed the benefits it might give me. Buying a die for each cartridge is not cost effective.

    Also, I can see locking up the press mid-cycle can cause problems if you don't clear out any cases that may have powder in them. But that is supposition on my part since I have not use the Lock out die.

    I use the Hornady powder cop die. Easy and fast to set up and once you incorporate it into your scan, works great and reliable.

    I use the case activated powder system but since I size/expand/prep cases shortly after shooting storing them for a future loading session and then prime off the press, my case activated powder measure system does not expand the case mouths. I've turned the expanding part off many of my PTX tubes or made custom drop tubes.
     
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  9. Rule3

    Rule3 Member

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    I do not see the benefit of the Hornady Powder Cop, If I have to look at the rod/flag I might as well just keep looking at the case fill with powder.
    Was looking for a senile proof system.:)

    Sure don't want to buy one for every caliber! That's crazy.

    Using the LCT for so long it was pretty hard to mess up a powder charge. I only am concerned with over charges, squibs are not an issue for me.
     
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  10. Rule3

    Rule3 Member

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    Gavin makes everything EASY:)
    He didn't show it working as in Locking out.

    easy.jpg
     
  11. Skgreen

    Skgreen Member

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    Debated between the RCBS and the Hornady before purchasing.

    Hornady: You have to look at each and every round. If ya don't, it serves no purpose at all.
    If you can slide a rubber band up and down a tube, you can 'set' the Hornady,,,
    Cannot speak from experience, but reported to work on both straightwall and bottleneck.

    RCBS: Set and forget. No visual inspection of every single round thereafter.
    Does not work on bottleneck cases. (Not an issue for me as I use a dispenser for my bottlenecks)
    Set up / adjustment is easy once you understand how it works,,,

    Basically, it won't let the press stroke continue (without crushing a case) unless the indicator rod is positioned in a certain location inside the die during the upstroke. That position is a constant/does not change. Bottom of white line painted on indicator rod is 'flush' with top of die in that position.

    There is a plastic 'foot' on the end of the rod that rides on top of the powder. Synchronizing the indicator rods position relative to the die for the desired charge level is a matter of turning the threaded indicator rod in or out. Turn right (thread in/shorten) to allow a higher charge level to pass, turn left (thread out / lengthen) for a lower charge.

    With a properly charged case, another way to look at it is if it locks out before you see the white line come up, you need to raise that line by lengthening the rod. If you see the line come up and continue on, and then it locks up, you need to shorten the rod.
    When properly adjusted, you'll see the white line come up and continue up without the die locking up.

    At first, I found it easiest to adjust on the bench with a charged case in lieu of in the press. Now that I understand 'how it works', it's easy enough to set either way. (Usually 30 seconds or less)
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2018
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  12. Skgreen

    Skgreen Member

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    L/O die is not caliber specific and can be adjusted to different calibers/powder levels by turning the rod.
    Only (1) L/O die is needed, but, as mentioned above, it does not work on bottleneck cases.
     
  13. Skgreen

    Skgreen Member

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    You can't really 'see' it lock out, but you can feel it in the press handle. Press ram will reach a certain point and not want to continue upwards if the lock out die senses a 'significant' change in charge level.

    At that point, you can either muscle down on the press lever and crush the case, or stop and investigate the problem. (I recommend the later.)
     
  14. tcj

    tcj Member

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    PTX works fine...I stopped using them when I went to wet tumbling as the too clean surface (inside of neck) would sometimes cause some sticking which meant that the press wouldn't operate as smoothly. They do take time to setup properly.
     
  15. Texas10mm

    Texas10mm Member

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    The original Hornady PTX parts worked well for jacketed bullets but sucked for cast. They were simple expanders that had not flare function at all. The new ones are supposed to be an improvement.

    I'd much rather use this instead. http://www.uniquetek.com/product/T1580
     
  16. Doublehelix
    • Contributing Member

    Doublehelix Contributing Member

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    As has been mentioned, you don't *have* to have multiple dies, one for each caliber. The adjustment takes just a minute or two.

    I have a separate tool head for each caliber, and I keep each one loaded with a full setup for each caliber, including the lock-out die and the powder drop so that everything is ready to go after a quick check on the powder weight.

    But then again, I apparently have money to burn!!! :)
     
  17. GW Staar

    GW Staar Member

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    I have a lockout die....just never used it. I have to agree with cfullgraf. I would have to buy more.....and I'm cheap. Besides the lock-out only works for pistol. Powder cop would be OK except I also tend to space out after a while with lots of steps going on.....and I can see myself missing a problem.

    I opted for visual more in my face that I can't ignore. Best part? It doesn't care what caliber it is....works for all. Below is a .308 filled to the bottom of the shoulder.

    How.... is simple and no more expensive than a couple of lock-outs. https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/video-powder-cop-station-for-my-pro-chucker-7.840175/

    IMG_2870.JPG
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2018
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  18. DRAINSMITH

    DRAINSMITH Member

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    As many of you know or don't know I like Hornady. So I bought the Hornady Delux Control Panel it comes with a round counter, a low primer warning, a stuck primer slide, a low power hopper indicator, and a lockout die. Now the lockout die will lock out the press just like the RCBS lockout die it also sends out an audible alarm like the Dillon and it has a warning light go off. So not only is it a win but it is a win, win, win. Now the sad thing is I had gotten used to looking into each and every case right before the bullet is loaded. I still do. I do use the power cop for the rifle cases.
     
  19. quaid

    quaid Member

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    I use the rcbs lockout on a lee classic turret with a lee powder through expander and a lee auto drum. You’ll need to watch the space above the lock out die because tall cases (revolver brass) can require a lot of height travel for the center lock out probe. Sometimes it interferes with the lee auto drum if it’s not rotated right- and it seems to never be because the powder dispenser hits the pez primer dispenser too. I use one or two leepowder measure risers until it all fits.

    I find the lock out easier to set for taller cases. For short cases I like to use bulky powders that will over fill if double charged, so I adjust the lock out die to be extra sensitive towards under charges.

    My die has caught squibs and undercharges in tall 38 spl cases that are hard to peer into.
     
  20. gojones

    gojones Member

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    I still adjust on the bench. Pretty straight forward. I adjust each time I reload just to double check my settings.
     
  21. Rule3

    Rule3 Member

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    from what I have read and videos the RCBS doesn't do much for 9mm. It will detect a "no charge" but not an over charge as the case is so small
    Many powders would overflow the case if a double charge but perhaps not all?

    The RCBS seems easy enough to adjust, I had no intention of one for each caliber and or powder. I am lazy but not that bad!
     
  22. higgite

    higgite Member

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    You don't mention what powder that it won't detect an overcharge for, but FWIW, here's my experience with W231 and my RCBS L/O die. My die has a bandwidth of 3.2 gr of W231 between lockout for undercharge and lockout for overcharge in a 9mm case. My favorite 9mm load uses 4.6gr of W231 and the die will lockout the press at significantly less than a double charge, far from overflow of the case. ymmv
     
  23. Doublehelix
    • Contributing Member

    Doublehelix Contributing Member

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    I also have used the lockout die with my 9mm loads. I am currently using 4.1 of Titegroup, which is also pretty low in the case. I have experimented with extra powder (not ful by any means) and it locks out just fine on my system.
     
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  24. Reeferman

    Reeferman Member

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    Watching the powder cop isn’t rocket science as the white o ring is in my vision at all times as I set it so the oring is just above the top of the die as shell plate comes to top.
     
  25. Rule3

    Rule3 Member

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    You say significantly less than a double chargein 9mm So if you use 4.6 g will it lock out at 5.6?? Will a case hold 9.2 g?? ( a double)

    I have no idea, just what some internet you tube expert said. I will have to get out different powders and measure for myself. I seem to remember deliberate trying a double charge on a LCT 9mm and Power Pistol and yes it overflows. So the Cop would be no use there(a double charge)
    I do not have one so can't test it.

    Maybe a powder like TiteBoom would fill it up twice??

    Edit" I just did a non scientific test of Hp 38 and 9mm and a case will hold around 8 to 8.2 g of HP38 So a double charge would be overflowing and unable to seat the bullet a blind reloader would notice it.
    Now at 5.6 would it lock? Should that be a Kboom??
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2018
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