Hornady reload data questions

[Flatland_mike]

New to this group, just a little info on myself, I've been reloading rifle rounds for about 20 years now, I like to shoot and like to hunt, enjoy reloading as well. I've always used sierra bullets with the exception of the Hornady bullets I load for my 22 hornet, but the last few years as we all know supplies have been hard to get, sierra bullets being no exception..... Hornady bullets seemed to be more available and I wanted to shoot so I started buying some in various cals.... Being I was starting to have more and more Hornady bullets I got ahold of the Hornady reloading book..... Which is where my concern come from.... I have a lee modern reloading book, the sierra book, and a speer book, all three of those books show very similar max and min loads..... The Hornady book shows WAY different min/max powder charges...... This doesn't make sense to me? Anyone else noticed this? Anyone have an opinion?

 

[MWC1974]

Welcome to THR.

A few things to consider. 1. Your Hornady manual is likely much newer than up your other three. As years have gone by, many manuals have decreased their loads. Not sure if that is due to new and improved powder data (manufacturers do change powder recipes without changing the name of the powder). 2. Each company that produces manuals does so based on the firearm they used for their particular test.

I have the Hornady 10th and 11th edition as well as the Lyman 50th. All three have slightly different min/max loads and in some cases, different powder options for a particular cartridge.

 

[NMexJim]

Welcome to THR.

A few things to consider. 1. Your Hornady manual is likely much newer than up your other three. As years have gone by, many manuals have decreased their loads. Not sure if that is due to new and improved powder data (manufacturers do change powder recipes without changing the name of the powder). 2. Each company that produces manuals does so based on the firearm they used for their particular test.

I have the Hornady 10th and 11th edition as well as the Lyman 50th. All three have slightly different min/max loads and in some cases, different powder options for a particular cartridge.

I totally agree with MWC.

For instance looking at .357 Mag for a 125 gr HP, my Hornady VII (1973) lists Red Dot, Bullseye, Unique, Herco, 2400, and a couple other powders whereas my Hornady 11th shows none of those powders.

And in .243 87gr HP loaded with H4895, the VII shows a start of 31.9 and a max of 38.6. The 11th edition starts at 28.7 and maxes at 35.3.

A lot ot folks would probably tell you that Hornady is a bit conservative in their loads. That's worked out ok for me, although I will ocassionally look somewhere else to get a few more fps.

 

[Flatland_mike]

Yes, the Hornady manual is 12-15 years newer than my sierra manual, and I was aware that the firearm tested changes the data somewhat, and makes total sense, and actually may help explain the very cartridge that I first looked up in the Hornady manual, where I noticed the rather considerable differences. I inherited an 1895 Winchester in 30us(30-40krag) from the man that started me in reloading after his passing. I wanted to load some rounds and started reading up on loads.....
Here's an example of the difference in the 30-40
Sierra - 180gr RN, IMR 4350 max load 47.4gr
Horndy-180gr RN, IMR 4350 max load 42.6gr

Now I'm not looking to load max loads by any means for this old rifle(mfg 1907) but, I had already loaded some up with 43gr which was middle of the road in the sierra book, but over max in the Hornady book.....

 

[Flatland_mike]

Thanks for the replies, the age and sentimental value (likely monetary value as well) of this rifle has me being very cautious, and finding the load data differences, I stopped loading anything until I could get some more information from people more experienced than myself.

 

[eddiememphis]

I have only been handloading for a couple of years and had the same observation when I bought load manuals.

Hornady lists very conservative max loads.

 

[MWC1974]

Here's an example of the difference in the 30-40
Sierra - 180gr RN, IMR 4350 max load 47.4gr
Horndy-180gr RN, IMR 4350 max load 42.6gr

Now I'm not looking to load max loads by any means for this old rifle(mfg 1907) but, I had already loaded some up with 43gr which was middle of the road in the sierra book, but over max in the Hornady book.....

How different are the minimum loads?

 

[Flatland_mike]

38.9(Hornady) vs 40.2(sierra)

 

[BushMaster-15]

Older manuals often show heavier charge weights ,also different pressures CUP aka copper units of Pressure , rather than PSI .
Powders are slightly different formulation today as opposed to 35- 70 years ago . So Modern powder made within the last 30 years , USE an equivalent reloading manual or data . Older powder data is Tougher to come by with regards to internet posting .

I DON'T post MY reloads ; UNLESS they're current components . Simply because I often use OLDER powders ,which 98.5% of shooters would NO longer be using or access too . Most sensible reloaders used theirs for fertilizer or 4 Th. of July antics

 

[DMW1116]

My policy has become to use Hornady data with Hornady bullets whenever available. I know they’re a little lower in charge than other sources but I had a rather unpleasant experience with some over pressure signs and they started just at Hornady’s maximum. Hodgdens maximum went another 2 grains higher.

Pistol loads from Hornady seem to match other sources a little better. My policy doesn’t apply to pistol loads.

 

[Todd NE WY]

Remember when you compare the Sierra to the Hornady they are each using their own bullets, there may be slight differences in jacket construction. I usually use the bullet manufacture to get a starting point then look at the powder company, with Hogdon and Accurate/Ramshot online it makes it easy to find a good starting point.

 

[AJC1]

I have seen the exact thing you list, and I write every data source I can find down and load the areas that overlap. If I need to go above or below for accuracy then fine, but I normally exclude the top and bottom.

 

[Highland Lofts]

I have a bunch of reloading manuals

Sometimes the Hornaday max is below others minimum.
I never load to the max from any manual.
Why put that much pressure through your firearm.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

Yes, the Hornady manual is 12-15 years newer than my sierra manual, and I was aware that the firearm tested changes the data somewhat, and makes total sense, and actually may help explain the very cartridge that I first looked up in the Hornady manual, where I noticed the rather considerable differences. I inherited an 1895 Winchester in 30us(30-40krag) from the man that started me in reloading after his passing. I wanted to load some rounds and started reading up on loads.....
Here's an example of the difference in the 30-40
Sierra - 180gr RN, IMR 4350 max load 47.4gr
Horndy-180gr RN, IMR 4350 max load 42.6gr

Now I'm not looking to load max loads by any means for this old rifle(mfg 1907) but, I had already loaded some up with 43gr which was middle of the road in the sierra book, but over max in the Hornady book.....

I like to follow the rule of change: whenever you change a major component - powder, case, bullet, or primer - go back to the last known best lowest charge and work up to your gun’s accuracy load. For a best lowest, I check my notes (if I have any which I typically don’t) then the manuals that apply - projectile and powder makers mostly but the Lyman’s are usually also on the list. I really, REALLY recommend against starting above the lowest start load. Some folks have been loading forever using middle of the table data, and others just skip to the highest maximum and work down. Both groups seem to do just fine - but I’m not one of them, I’m a minimalist. I find out what the performance specs are for the bullet and start at the lowest low then work up to where my guns work and are reasonably accurate close enough to that working velocity at the ranges I shoot.
That’s what I suggest here but don’t pull down the ones you loaded. Just load more lower and work up to them as your maximum.

 

[eddiememphis]

Remember when you compare the Sierra to the Hornady they are each using their own bullets, there may be slight differences in jacket construction. I usually use the bullet manufacture to get a starting point then look at the powder company, with Hogdon and Accurate/Ramshot online it makes it easy to find a good starting point.

What about small manufacturers that do not publish load data for their bullets- especially oddball loads that are of unique weight or construction?

 

[dartor]

OP, another thing to consider, Lee does not do their testing for the data of loads listed in their "manual". All the data is copied from other sources. I cast (mostly Lee molds) and reload for everything I shoot and I don't use the Lee manual. Reason being, it doesn't have data for almost every mold they make. I use the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook for most of my reloading data. The only reason I have the Lee "manual" is that it came with my Classic Cast kit.

 

[Highland Lofts]

Lee sure slaps his own back over & over & over again in his reloading manual.
I done use his information much at all. After dealing with their customer service I use 99% other manufacturers products.

 

[Flatland_mike]

Thanks for all the info so far, all good stuff guys.

 

[lordpaxman]

@Flatland_mike, welcome to THR. I don’t have much to add to what the others have already said, just that I’ve noticed the same thing as you when it comes to reloading data from published sources. If a bullet manufacturer has load data, I’ll use that before anything else. My goals are accurate, precise and safe reloads so for me there’s no need to chase maximums. It does get interesting when you go to load a bullet that isn’t listed in published data.

 

[Flatland_mike]

@Flatland_mike, welcome to THR. I don’t have much to add to what the others have already said, just that I’ve noticed the same thing as you when it comes to reloading data from published sources. If a bullet manufacturer has load data, I’ll use that before anything else. My goals are accurate, precise and safe reloads so for me there’s no need to chase maximums. It does get interesting when you go to load a bullet that isn’t listed in published data.

I have the same goals, I'm not looking for the max charge necessarily, safe and accurate, but enough velocity for the bullet used to perform as designed for an ethical kill shot.

 

[MWC1974]

Yes, the Hornady manual is 12-15 years newer than my sierra manual, and I was aware that the firearm tested changes the data somewhat, and makes total sense, and actually may help explain the very cartridge that I first looked up in the Hornady manual, where I noticed the rather considerable differences. I inherited an 1895 Winchester in 30us(30-40krag) from the man that started me in reloading after his passing. I wanted to load some rounds and started reading up on loads.....
Here's an example of the difference in the 30-40
Sierra - 180gr RN, IMR 4350 max load 47.4gr
Horndy-180gr RN, IMR 4350 max load 42.6gr

Now I'm not looking to load max loads by any means for this old rifle(mfg 1907) but, I had already loaded some up with 43gr which was middle of the road in the sierra book, but over max in the Hornady book.....

My Lyman 50th (Publish Date January 2021) has data for a 180gr. Jacketed Softpoint (Speer SP #2053) with an OAL of 3.080
IMR 4350 Minimum: 42.0 @ 2031fps and 29,700 C.U.P
IMR 4350 Maximum: 46.0 @ 2293fps and 38,800 C.U.P

 

[Flatland_mike]

My Lyman 50th (Publish Date January 2021) has data for a 180gr. Jacketed Softpoint (Speer SP #2053) with an OAL of 3.080
IMR 4350 Minimum: 42.0 @ 2031fps and 29,700 C.U.P
IMR 4350 Maximum: 46.0 @ 2293fps and 38,800 C.U.P

Very interesting that Lyman lists a minimum load that's nearly the same as Hornady maximum load?
So I suppose the next question I have is... could bullet manufacturing/manufacturer really make that drastic of a difference in pressure?

 

[MWC1974]

Well, I was going to reply “yes”, but i double checked the Hornady manual(s) I own. The load you reference is the same in the 9th, 10th, and 11th edition. 9th edition being published in 2012.

All that said, it stood out to me that the all of the 180s that Hornady produces is in the same table. Match, ELDX, RN, etc. Does manufacturer make a difference; maybe(?). Does manufacturing make a difference; not according to how Hornady groups all of their bullets under the same weight category.

 

[bigpower491]

Very interesting that Lyman lists a minimum load that's nearly the same as Hornady maximum load?

So I suppose the next question I have is... could bullet manufacturing/manufacturer really make that drastic of a difference in pressure?

Yes for sure. For example, compare the diameter of the Hornady 44 cal handgun bullets compared to other manufacturers......Hornadys are .430 and most others come in at .429. That will make a difference. Then we have bullet lengths, ogive, jacket material hardness and thickness, so lots of things matter, yes, right down to if it was tested for data in a firearm or a test barrel.

 

[MWC1974]

While I certainly agree with you @bigpower491, I do wonder why Hornady lumps all of their bullets together (by weight) when it comes to load data. According to their manuals, the 180gr RN Min/Max is the same as the 180gr SST.