Hornady sends an e-mail--Ain't that nice

[HOWARD J]

Hornady explains why thet have a roll crimper in their 45ACP seater die

"Our taper crimp dies have always been sold separately.
The seating die that is in our set is intended to return the case mouth back to the side of the bullet.
If you would over flare this would return the flare to the bullet.
Thank you"

 

[MMCSRET]

The Hornady, and Pacific before Hornady has worked well for me for several 45 A.C.P semi-autos and several revolvers chambered for the same cartridge.
Please explain what difficulty you are experiencing, that I may understand.

 

[HOWARD J]

Yesterday some guy was mad b/cause no taper crimp was supplied & he was wrecking his cases.
I don't give a---------- I always use a taper crimp die

If you read Hornadys literature you will see that they say " we supplya roll crimper in our seater die "

 

[MMCSRET]

I set the die to just straighten out the flair, never had a head space problem doing it that way. I never let it roll, just smooth, it is all in the adjustment. 40 years ago Pacific instructed how to do that in the guide that came with the die set. I just kept on doing it that way. Works for me!!!!!!!
One thing. I seat the bullet and then crimp in a separate operation, sometimes on a different press. Takes a little longer but it enhances the quality of the operation.

 

[HOWARD J]

I do the same thing--thats why I like the 4 hole Lee Turret press I have,
I use a taper crimp die to finish cases that headspace on the mouth.
I have a habit of having dies from different Co's in the same turret--always looking for something that works easier or better.
Have fun,
H

 

[Walkalong]

I set the die to just straighten out the flair, never had a head space problem doing it that way. I never let it roll, just smooth, it is all in the adjustment

It's easy when the die has a taper crimp built in, like it should for .45 ACP, but Hornady chose to put a roll crimp ledge in their .45 ACP sliding sleeve seater. (9MM too) It doesn't work very well to remove the flare and or taper crimp a hair. The adjustment is just to critical. That is why all other makers have a taper crimp built into their seaters. Hornady used to before they came out with the sliding sleeve seater.

Hornady is making a mistake IMO, and it is a disservice to reloaders who are thinking they are getting a seater that will taper crimp like it should. Hornady's answer to buy a separate taper crimp die is bad business IMO.

 

[MMCSRET]

I have never used the newer Hornady dies for 45 Auto, so i guess I'm barking up at the wrong tree. I apologize for not knowing of which I was speaking.

 

[Steve Koski]

It's funny that Hornady has been making this mistake for decades. Hmmm.

 

[zxcvbob]

Try this method for adjusting the crimp die: Size a case, then without using the expander die first, run it up in the backed-off crimp die. Screw down the crimp die until it is *snug* against the case mouth, then tighten the locking ring.

That setting should give you a light crimp and it doesn't matter whether you have a roll crimp or taper crimp die.

 

[HOWARD J]

Maybe if you follow the instructions that came with the seater/crimper & have all your cases trimmed to the same size---you may just get a crimp that works ok.
Have fun,
HJ
PS: I never follow instructions--that would be too easy----

 

[Walkalong]

The problem with trying to taper crimp with a roll crimp die is that the margin for error in the adjustment is so small, plus the fact that it won't taper crimp properly anyway.

Buy a different seater or someone else's taper crimp die to go with the Hornady seater, which are nice as far as seating goes, and they roll crimp revolver rounds nicely.

 

[Innovative]

Crimping the .45ACP

When handloading the .45ACP it is far better to use a taper crimp, and it's best to crimp in a separate operation. If a taper crimp was performed during the seating operation, it would shave the bullet. A separate taper crimp die is required to properly crimp most semi auto pistol calibers.

Most shooters are aware of the roll crimp feature in their seating dies. However, those seating dies are just adjusted higher, and are rarely used for crimping.

 

[Walkalong]

I have to disagree here.

There is so little actual crimping going on in such a short seating distance on 9MM, .40, .45 etc, that seating and crimping with the same die works just fine. It will not shave even a lead bullet. Millions of rounds have been loading just that way over the years. Separate crimping is easier to set up, but other than that there is no real advantage if one is crimping .45 ACP properly.

I'm not knocking crimping in a separate step, it just isn't necessary with .45 ACP. For decades folks used 3 die sets to load .45 with no problems.

 

[Innovative]

Walkalong .......

I agree that crimping has been done (while seating the bullet) for a long time. However, it's far better to use the method that produces the best accuracy and reliability. All of the top shooters are using a taper crimp, and performing the crimp in a separate operation. There's a good reason for it.

When a taper crimp is applied correctly (on a .45ACP) the case is gradually tapered by .002" at the mouth, and if the taper crimp is not done in a separate step, most taper crimp dies will shave lead from cast bullets.

That's why you see seating dies with a roll crimp and never a taper crimp.

 

[Walkalong]

It does not give better dependability, although it certainly might give better accuracy depending on the application etc. I taper crimp .45 ACP in a second step, but I can guarantee you I cannot shoot well enough to prove it is more or less accurate. Bullseye shooters could.

It will not shave the bullet if done properly. If it is shaving the bullet you are using far to much crimp. .002 is max in my book. Besides, a hair of an indention in a .45 bullet would never show on target, no matter how good you are.

That's why you see seating dies with a roll crimp and never a taper crimp.

Nonsense. Only Hornady sells a .45 ACP seater with a roll crimp. Everyone else sells seaters with a taper crimp built in for .45 ACP.

 

[Innovative]

I guess we've all had different experiences with handloading.

I've never seen a .45ACP seating die with a built in taper crimp. My RCBS taper crimp die squeezes the bullet in a way that, by the time the crimp is right, the bullet is shaved. That's why the taper crimp die is commonly used in a separate operation after the bullet is in place.

My particular experience (testing 1911 barrels in a fixed shooting fixture) has shown that the taper crimp is definitely more accurate. My "reliability" comment was to note that the taper crimp has proven to be 100% reliable.

After all, I've never had the need to reload the .45ACP with an inferior roll crimp.

 

[Walkalong]

Interesting. My RCBS (old) seater has a nice taper crimp built in. I use it to taper crimp .45 Colt these days. Perhaps things have changed, but it makes no sense to me for them to have a roll crimp built in. If they want us to crimp in a second step (sell more dies) they should just leave the crimp out of the die completely instead of putting the wrong one in. Yep, interesting.

 

[jerkface11]

I HATE the sliding sleeve dies they make. I had one that wasn't put together when I got it and never could figure out what order the parts actually go in. The other one is pretty efficient at ruining brass.

 

[Walkalong]

I like them, although I prefer the Redding Competition die. The Reddings are pricey, but very nice. I have three of them. One for .45 ACP, one for .38Spl/.357 Mag, and one for .44Spl/.44 Mag.

 

[Poppa Necktie]

That's why you see seating dies with a roll crimp and never a taper crimp.

RCBS and Redding make their semi-auto pistol seating dies with taper crimp. I seat and crimp my semi-auto ammo in one step and I get pretty damned fantastic results, if I say so myself.

I'm not trying to hit a a flea's ass at 100yds or anything, but I'd be amazed if *anyone* could tell a difference between the accuracy of ammo that is crimped and seated in one step vs. two in 99.999999999999% of pistol shooting scenarios.

 

[dbltaps]

I could be barking up the wrong tree, but is the reason Hornady includes a die for Roll Crimping cases instead of Taper Crimping because the same die set is used for 45 Colt (the revolver cartridge)?

 

[snuffy]

I like them, although I prefer the Redding Competition die. The Reddings are pricey, but very nice. I have three of them. One for .45 ACP, one for .38Spl/.357 Mag, and one for .44Spl/.44 Mag.

I was extremely unhappy with the "so-called" ROLL crimp my 44 mag was getting with the lee FCD. It kinda crimped! I had seen reference to the redding profile crimp here and on other forums. It's the cats whiskers! Beautiful roll crimps every time. I'm ordering one next time from midway for my 357's.

 

[LiveLife]

I've never seen a .45ACP seating die with a built in taper crimp.

All of my Lee carbide dies in 9mm/40S&W/45ACP are combination seating/taper crimp dies. Been like that as long as I have been reloading (16+years).

BTW, they are on sale for $25 on MidwayUSA.

 

[HOWARD J]

@dbltaps
You are gonna need a new tree--they are separate dies

 

[Innovative]

I totally agree that the .45ACP has no need for a roll crimp. However, if you try using a crimp die that specifically says "TAPER" on it, and if you use it in a separate operation, you'll probably get a better looking taper crimp than the dies that are designed to seat and crimp.

At least, that's been my experience. (40 + years and I manufacture reloading dies.)