Hornady TAP or Black Hills Match for AR-15/ Ar-10 Rifle

[4Freedom]

HI, I am looking for good quality personal defense ammo for my DPMS Sportical 5.56, Rock River Tactical Carbine A4 and my DPMS LR-308. In addition, I am looking for good 12 ga shotgun ammo as well, but I will post that on shotgun thread.

Anyhow, I have been confused as to which brands would be all around good defense ammo for my guns. People have told me that Hornady TAP, Black Hills and Federal Gold are the best ammos you can get.

Well, prices are high and availability is low, so seeing the way things are now, what suggestions can people make for best type of "PERSONAL DEFENSE" ammo to buy?

I see a couple stores, like Cabella's carries some of these ammos, but they are bit pricey. Does anyone have suggestions of a good place to purchse the Match Grade/ Personal Defense TAP or Black Hills type ammo? Also, what would be a good price for Hornady TAP and Black Hills hollow point or other defenseive ammo in 5.56 and .308 ?

 

[bkb0000]

i have a mag full of 55gr vmax i sometimes load in my "go-to" weapon at home, but the whole floating firing pin issue makes me not real big on defensive AR ammo. i shoot pretty often, and constantly chambering and unchambering your "defensive loads" is potentially dangerous. every time you chamber a round your primer is dimpled- do it enough times (who knows what "enough" is), and it's been theorized that the primer will eventually bust.

i really think the whole defensive AR ammo debate it silly anyway.. humans are pretty easy to put down with a 55gr bullet, and you have insurance in the form of 29 followups before reload if needed. use whatever is cheap and available. i think even Wolf makes soft points IIRC.

 

[4Freedom]

I just want the best bullets I can get for a defense situation for each of my guns. I don't believe I would chamber them, rather I would keep them loaded in a mag or ready for worse case SHTF scenario. I also dont want FMJ type ammo, for fear of wounding neighbors or innocent people in my residence. All my plinking would be done with cheaper type of ammo.

So, can anyone give me suggestions? I think the beauty of an AR15 and AR10 is that it can use this type of ammo, so I like to have the ability to utilize it.

 

[Ridgerunner665]

In the 308...for personal defense ammo

Anything loaded with 150 grain Nosler Ballistic Tips...at 308 velocities they penetrate plenty and expand VIOLENTLY.

They come in 125 grain too...but in case of longer shots, I'd stick to 150's at least...168's work good too.

 

[moooose102]

Hornay "tap" is personal defense ammo, and black hills match is target shooting ammo, if i am not mistaken. I would not use target ammo for personal defense situations! Baaaaad charma!

 

[athensguy]

At Home Defense distances, M193 is unlikely to exit the target. It also does less damage than other bullets if you miss and it goes through a few walls and then causes a collateral hit on someone.

 

[TexasRifleman]

black hills match is target shooting ammo, if i am not mistaken. I would not use target ammo for personal defense situations!

Black Hills Match is NOT target ammo. Most of the loadings use very good defensive bullets and in fact lots of the military loadings of sniper ammunition are Black Hills Match, just under the milspec name.

Mk262Mod1 for example is Black Hills Match using the 75gr OTM bullet. (.223/5.56)

In .308 there is the 168gr Match, fantastic stuff using a BTHP bullet.

Very very good defensive ammo. About the best you can buy.

The word "match" does not refer to the intended use, it refers to the standard deviation from round to round of things like powder charge, bullet weight, etc.

 

[no.5enfield]

Texasrifleman, do you have personal hunting experience with the .308 or .223 BTHP match? If so, how does it do? I have been trying to find a solid answer for this question myself. I would love to stock up on some if it would perform well in a hunting or defense scenario.

Thanks,
Brad

 

[TexasRifleman]

Texasrifleman, do you have personal hunting experience with the .308 or .223 BTHP match?

Absolutely. I shoot the 75gr Black Hills .223 (when I can find the stuff) regularly. It's pretty much identical to the older military Mk262Mod0 ammo other than being a .223 load instead of 5.56. I bought a couple of cases way back when you could get it, I'm stingy with it but I shoot it now and then.

I do have a box of the 5.56 Mk262Mod0 but I'm keeping it. Not sure what for lol.

The Black Hills .308 I have is the 168gr Match. It too is excellent and accurate ammo though I would not use it for self defense inside. In .308 I prefer a very light bullet, to minimize over penetration inside a house.

The Hornady TAP 110gr ammo is in use a lot for this kind of application, though I think it would not be very good for hunting. I only hunt with '06 and .45-70.

I don't hunt with .308 or .223 so I can't say much about this stuff for hunting, I only hunt with '06 and .45-70.

The downside of course is that it's all stupid expensive and out of stock most of the time

 

[4Freedom]

Absolutely. I shoot the 75gr Black Hills .223 (when I can find the stuff) regularly. It's pretty much identical to the older military Mk262Mod0 ammo other than being a .223 load instead of 5.56. I bought a couple of cases way back when you could get it, I'm stingy with it but I shoot it now and then.

Do you think Black Hills 75gr would shoot ok in my AR-15 guns: DPMS Sportical 5.56 and Rock River Tactical Carbine A4 ? I was told that 75gr may be to heavy for the 1:9 twist barrel on these guns.

Would you choose using the Black Hills match ammo for personal defense over the Hornady TAP? I do know that bullets vary from gun to gun in their effectiveness, but I am just looking to make my first purchase and for now can only go by people's experience of shooting this type of ammo through AR-15 guns, like the ones I have mentioned.

 

[TexasRifleman]

Do you think Black Hills 75gr would shoot ok in my AR-15 guns

That one seems to be voodoo.

Paperwork will tell you that 69gr is the heaviest that will reliably stabilize in a 1:9 barrel, but I have a Bushmaster 11" barrel in 1:9 that will shoot 75gr like nobodies business, and a longer Rock River that keyholes. I've shot the 11" out to 200 yards and it shoots the stuff great.

Buy a few and try is all I can say. It's very odd and seems to be very rifle dependent for whatever reason I don't pretend to understand.

Saw it described on Arfcom once as the "proper combination of the moon's position relative to the earth and the gravitational flux" or somesuch.

Makes as much sense as any other reason I've seen

Would you choose using the Black Hills match ammo for personal defense over the Hornady TAP?

I think that's a wash in my opinion. I buy whatever I can get and lately that's been the Hornady. Black Hills hasn't been in stock at the places I buy from in a long time, so it's TAP for me for the moment.

My opinion is there is no practical difference for defensive use.

If you really want to get down in the weeds and talk about bullet types, T1 vs T1C and all that stuff, there are threads at Arfcom to make your head hurt.

These rounds have been probed researched and dissected more than any other I've ever seen

 

[Ridgerunner665]

About using match ammo for home defense...

If the ammo is loaded with bullets that use the J4 jacket (VERY thin jacket)...they expand just as violently as any varmint bullet (except maybe the Barnes Varmint Grenade).

Many companies use these type bullets in their match ammo...and they make a BIG mess of a coyote...thats all I know.

 

[TexasRifleman]

Here's a great thread on these 2 loadings. More than you ever wanted to know:

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=16&t=387471

 

[no.5enfield]

Thanks Rifleman, Champion, in College Station keeps the 75gr black hills but it is pricey. I am thinking of buying the 75gr Prvi and trying it on hogs.

4freedom, I can't figure the barrel twist-bullet weight thing out, most people will say 1/9 wont stabilize heavier than 68s. However, most people who try it say it stabilizes fine. I would like to see some targets from one of these guns that have issues with the heavier bullets, just to see how it affects accuracy. The best thing is to buy a box and try them.

Brad