Hot .38 Special

[Mark_Mark]

What the hotties .38 Special have you loaded?

I’m thinking 125gn plated round nose

 

[cfullgraf]

Follow your reputable reloading data.

Also, it depends on what firearm you are shooting them in. I do not like shooting +P ammunition in an Airweight J-Frame. I stick with standard 38 Special in those guns.

38 Special +P in a 357 Magnum is no issue.

 

[Mark_Mark]

Follow your reputable reloading data.

Also, it depends on what firearm you are shooting them in. I do not like shooting +P ammunition in an Airweight J-Frame. I stick with standard 38 Special in those guns.

38 Special +P in a 357 Magnum is no issue.

24” barrel. You think 1250 fps with 125gn is too hot for the .38 brass?

 

[cfullgraf]

24” barrel. You think 1250 fps with 125gn is too hot for the .38 brass?

Again, follow reputable loading data.

Plated bullets generally have a maximum velocity recommendation, frequently around 1200 fps. But some bullets have heavy plating, like 30 Carbine bullets that increase the recommended maximum velocity.

When I load near maximum in 357 Magnum, I use jackered bullets. My plated bullet loads are always mid level loads.

Again, research reputable data and do not trust hearsay from the internet.

 

[Mark_Mark]

Again, follow reputable loading data.

Plated bullets generally have a maximum velocity recommendation, frequently around 1200 fps. But some bullets have heavy plating, like 30 Carbine bullets that increase the recommended maximum velocity.

When I load near maximum in 357 Magnum, I use plated bullets. My plated bullet loads are always mid level loads.

Again, research reputable data and do not trust hearsay from the internet.

thanks man

 

[AzShooter1]

185 grain bullet on top of 4.5 grains of Unique. This load may not be the most powerful but it groups inside of one inch at 25 yards from the bench. Chrono's out to about 160 power factor from my S&W 4 inch Model 10.

It's an LBT mold. When I bought it I was told to just keep adding my Unique until I had the best groups.

Another is a 125 on top of 6.7 grains of H 110. Impressive fireball, especially at night shoots but too powerful for me to run them in the Model 10.

Check your loading manuals to see what they say as max loads. I hold no responsibility using my data under my special conditions.

 

[Mark_Mark]

185 grain bullet on top of 4.5 grains of Unique. This load may not be the most powerful but it groups inside of one inch at 25 yards from the bench. Chrono's out to about 160 power factor from my S&W 4 inch Model 10.

It's an LBT mold. When I bought it I was told to just keep adding my Unique until I had the best groups.

Another is a 125 on top of 6.7 grains of H 110. Impressive fireball, especially at night shoots but too powerful for me to run them in the Model 10.

Check your loading manuals to see what they say as max loads. I hold no responsibility using my data under my special conditions.

thanks bud! nice model 10!

160 PF in a model 10… NICE

 

[Random 8]

I'm running a 158 hardcast up into the mid .357 mag speed level in a rifle and a .357 chambered revolver. No, I'm not quoting the data, but I'm North of 38 data with Power Pistol. The brass holds up fine.

 

[Mark_Mark]

I'm running a 158 hardcast up into the mid .357 mag speed level in a rifle and a .357 chambered revolver. No, I'm not quoting the data, but I'm North of 38 data with Power Pistol. The brass holds up fine.

that’s what I really want to know… how much can a new factory Starline brass take! thanks bud!!

 

[joneb]

What the hotties .38 Special have you loaded?

For warm .38 spl with 158gr LSWC I like 4.2-4.4gr of W-231 it just works well for me. I never gave 125gr in 38 spl. much thought.

 

[Seedy Character]

I bought a bunch of 115gr powder coated bullets. Loaded to MAX using 125gr data. Unique and Herco. They shoot great.
Ring a 50 yard going with authority.

I shoot them in a.357, but should be good in a .38Spl, using .38 load data. Mine is out of the Hornady book.

 

[GRIZ22]

When it comes to reloading my idea of a hot 38 special is...a 357 magnum.

I don't do hot loads. You're trying to make the caliber something it wasn't meant to be mostly so you can show you can do it.

Handgun rounds in a pistol caliber carbine generally only pick up 100-150 fps. Magnums will pick up more.

I will do +P in a k frame. You really don't gain much in a handgun with +P.

 

[forrest r]

I'd be taking a hard look at power pistol and 150gr/160gr bullets. PP does extremely well in the 38spl's, 44spl's,45acp,s/P+ low pressure calibers.

I'm getting 950fps with 6.2gr of power pistol and a 160gr cast/coated bullet in a 2" bbl'd snubnosed revolver (152pf from a 2" bbl'd revolver). Brian Pearce did an article on power pistol in a snubnosed ruger LCR and used 6.3gr of power pistol pushing a rimrock 158gr lead gas checked hp (358156 clone) and was getting 1000fps+ with that combo.

2400 would be another powder to look at. I was getting 900fps+ using the same bullet with the power pistol test loads using 11.0gr of 2400. The 2400 would really shine in a 24" bbl.

Bullet selection is important when it comes to performance in 38spl/hot 38spl loads. I used these bullets + 1 more not shown in the picture doing head to head testing with 5 different powders testing hot 38spl P+ loads in a snubnosed (2" bbl) 38spl.


Of the 10 different bullets used in the testing these 4 always had the highest velocities with every powder tested.


They had as much as 70fps more velocity using the same load as the worst performing bullets. They have bases that seal/perform better then the smaller/shorter counterparts. 1 of them has a gas check which help with performance/velocity.

 

[Walkalong]

Y'all be careful out there, make sure they are well marked so they don't end up in guns that can't hndle the pressure.

Something like this, from back when I still loaded "Ruger Only" .45 Colt. My first clue was the red ammo box, then the label.

 

[Rule3]

What the hotties .38 Special have you loaded?

I’m thinking 125gn plated round nose

Hot 38 special are 38+P
Pretty much the start load of a 357 less about 10%
FMJ are better than plated if exceeding 1200 fps (some heavy plate are good)

General rule of thumb is the slower powders will produce better velocity in a longer barrel. But then you run into friction of the barrels so it all gets ballistic

There are some articles out there about loading near 357 mag in 38 special brass. . Why I do not know.??

As stated follow all load data

 

[EricBu]

24 inch barrel? I load hot 38 for my Marlin lever action. Out of the carbine I got much better performance with powders like H110, Lil Gun, and RL7 than faster pistol powders like TG or AA2. The brass will handle driving them just as hot as 357. I've done it more as a novelty, and I can get one extra round in the tube with 38s...but feeding is much faster with the longer 357 so I generally stick with that. There isn't much published load data for 38 and 38 +P specific to long barrels other than some cowboy action data which is mostly on the softer side. When I played with this, I started 10% off the lowest 357 mag data, and worked up. Keep in mind when playing with H110, it's not a tolerant powder. Lil Gun is pretty forgiving.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

Mark_Mark asked: "What the hotties .38 Special have you loaded? I’m thinking 125gn plated round nose"
cfullgraf said: "... Also, it depends on what firearm you are shooting them in. ..."
Mark_Mark replied: "24” barrel. You think 1250 fps with 125gn is too hot for the .38 brass?"

24" barrel? Rifle? (I notice EricBu also got that.)

125 grain bullet can probably be driven to 1250 fps within the safety limits of a rifle with 24" barrel and .38 Special brass with a powder more suitable for rifles than for pistol loads. Follow published load data maximums even tho' people may tell you published data is conservative: it saves the life of your brass, your gun and maybe you.

I have a 20" barrel .38/.357 lever action rifle, a 4" barrel .357 revolver, and two 2" barrel .38 Special revolvers and I have reloaded .38 Special and .357 Magnum. I do not load hot rounds in .38 Special brass, only in .357 brass, because a hot rifle load in .38 Special brass could end up being fired in the wrong .38 Special gun.

 

[Charlie98]

how much can a new factory Starline brass take!

Although I know I'm all alone out here... I've not found Starline brass to be very good in the longevity department, although my experience with it is with some brass that is now 20+ years old. .38SPC brass in particular, which I bought new, was failing after the 2nd load, some even cracked after the 1st... this with standard .38SPC loads, not +P. I wound up having to junk the entire 1000 case lot. Their .357 brass started to fail after about the 4-5th loading, although this was with hotter .357 loads, obviously. Their .45ACP brass, after who knows how many loadings, is starting to split, too... understandable because of all the loadings, but it's failing when other brass is still going strong. Just my particular experiences.

My first clue was the red ammo box, then the label.

That's what I do... all full-house ammos (or Ruger ammos) goes into a red ammo box, vs the brown or blue boxes of regular ammos.

 

[MacAR]

I like 9.5 grains of 2400 under a 158 gr JHP/JSP. Those are my "rifle" loads, not to be fired in small revolvers like J frames, etc. Another one I like is 5 grains of W231 under the same bullet; again, not something that needs to be fired in a light revolver. But that's not something I worry too much about, as I don't own any, but still label them as heavy loads in case someone else were to get hold of them. I don't load any of the lighter bullets, just don't care for them I guess.

Both those loads are in 38 cases, are accurate out of my two revolvers and rifle, and while neither are "carrying the mail", they whack steel and critters with authority out to 50 yards. I've got it on my mind to use the 1866 and one of the above loads to deer hunt with this fall. There's a good spot that offers shots under 50 yards not too far from the house, and I think that either one of the loads I mentioned would kill a deer just fine given proper application.

Mac

 

[Riomouse911]

Y'all be careful out there, make sure they are well marked so they don't end up in guns that can't hndle the pressure.

Something like this, from back when I still loaded "Ruger Only" .45 Colt. My first clue was the red ammo box, then the label.
View attachment 1026024

Back when I had a Colt SAA clone and an Old Vaquero, any hot loaded .45 Colt got not only its own box but I put a sharpie mark across the case head too.

I started that routine when an inattentive friend loaded a cylinder of .44 Mag into his old vaquero .45 Colt. I figured better safe than sorry when humans are involved .

OP isn’t mentioning the rifle. I’d be kind to 1866/1873 styles of .38 rifles if that’s what’s being loaded for. 1892 style can handle a good bit more.

Stay safe.

 

[MacAR]

I’d be kind to 1866/1873 styles of .38 rifles if that’s what’s being loaded for

Agreed; the toggle link actions don't like +P ammo. An occasional shot or two won't hurt it much, but a steady diet of heavy loads will wear one out in a double A hurry.

Mac

 

[Charlie98]

OP isn’t mentioning the rifle. I’d be kind to 1866/1873 styles of .38 rifles if that’s what’s being loaded for.

I always automatically default to the Marlin 1894... but that's not a given anymore, these days. That's a good question...

 

[Seedy Character]

Y'all be careful out there, make sure they are well marked so they don't end up in guns that can't hndle the pressure.

Something like this, from back when I still loaded "Ruger Only" .45 Colt. My first clue was the red ammo box, then the label.
View attachment 1026024

A "MUST"

I take it 1 step further. Since 99% of my loading is done with powder coated bullets, I color code my loads. Any handgun cartridge that has a red or JHP bullet is a "HOT" load.

L'il Gun is fast becoming my favorite powder for hunting loads. It works great in .357M, .41M, .44M and heavy .45C.

 

[Mark_Mark]

Agreed; the toggle link actions don't like +P ammo. An occasional shot or two won't hurt it much, but a steady diet of heavy loads will wear one out in a double A hurry.

Mac

Thanks! it’s a Stoger 1873, with a 24” barrel.

yeah, mabey I should back off on the idea of hot loads for a old rifle lock design. And, just enjoy the rifle and not hotrod it to death. I was also hoping to use the same .38/.357 in my (don’t have it yet) 1873 Colt SAA clone. Kindda like the Cowboy did.

H110…. Would that work good in a 5.5” barrel. I got plenty of H110. What you guys think would be a medium powder for both rifle and revolver? I’m going to back off on hotrod-ing and go with a moderate load.

Ruger’s can handle very hot loads I see!

thanks Everyone!!!

 

[Mark_Mark]

Agreed; the toggle link actions don't like +P ammo. An occasional shot or two won't hurt it much, but a steady diet of heavy loads will wear one out in a double A hurry.

Mac

if the 1873 is rated for .357 mag, then it should be able to handle any .38 SPL +P loads… right? or am I missing something