Hourglass shaped cases after reloading

[Cloudwraith]

Hi guys,

I'm a relatively new reloader (about 2,000 rounds) with an all Lee setup. Classic turret setup with Lee dies. My 9mm and .40 rounds have always ended up with an hourglass shape after reloading. They fire fine and I've never had a problem with them but I'm wondering if I'm not doing something right or if the dies have an issue.

After cleaning the cases they look fine. After going through the full sizer and depriming step the very bottom of the case looks untouched with about 90 percent of the case being sized down to slightly smaller diameter.

Once the bullet has been seated it expands the top of the case for the length of the bullet. This results in a slight hourglass shape. I will say that some brands of cases are not as bad (maybe because they are thicker?)

Thoughts?

 

[Chuck Perry]

Your sizer die is sizing the cases below bullet diameter. When you seat the bullet, the bullet expands the case back out. This isn't uncommon. You will see a variation between brands of brass, as the case walls on some brass are thicker than others. As long as they chamber ok you have nothing to worry about.

 

[JohnM]

I get some of that with my .357.
Especially with cast lead bullets.
It's barely noticeable and has never interfered with chambering.

 

[jmorris]

yep, you are sizing more than you need to. If you had a case gauge you would stop screwing the die down once the case drops in and out.

Don't worry though, some people buy dies that size too much, they are called undersize or "U" dies.

 

[Cloudwraith]

So is the sizer die sizing to small or is this the way Lee dies are?

 

[ROCKFISH]

Not a problem. Lee dies size small to fit in any chamber.

 

[James2]

Yes, that happens. The base is not sized, and the bullet expands the casing a bit, so that part in the middle that was sized but has no bullet will be slightly smaller. Nothing to worry about.

 

[USSR]

This is common when using carbide dies on a case that has a slight taper to it. The reason for it is, the carbide sizing ring is at the bottom of the die and it is set to resize the case mouth to the proper size to hold a bullet securely, but as the case goes further up into the die, the body of the case gets sized more than necessary, giving you the "wasp waist" effect. It doesn't harm anything, it just looks funny.

Don

 

[gamestalker]

This is not at all unusual and will not interfere with function, as you've already discovered. And on the plus side, you won't ever have to be concerned with bullet set back. For me it's very pronounced with an old set of Lee 9mm carbide dies.

 

[cfullgraf]

Your sizer die is sizing the cases below bullet diameter. When you seat the bullet, the bullet expands the case back out. This isn't uncommon. You will see a variation between brands of brass, as the case walls on some brass are thicker than others. As long as they chamber ok you have nothing to worry about.

Yes, what Chuck said.

 

[LiveLife]

Especially pronounced on tapered 9mm case with larger base than case neck and larger diameter plated/lead bullets. Finished round looks like a "coke bottle".

 

[Cloudwraith]

Thanks guys, I assumed it was fine but wanted to make sure

 

[Nick93]

just a question to take out the Curiosity for those who have steel sizer for handguns cartridges ... Do the steel dies make this "coke bottle" or "Hourglass" effect ? if it does ... it has less effect ? i know that its part of ammo because produces the neck tension ...

 

[Striker Fired]

I use that "hourglass" shape to watch how centered my bullets are.More bulge on one side than the other indicates something need to be moved.

 

[USSR]

Do the steel dies make this "coke bottle" or "Hourglass" effect ?

No. I replaced my carbide .45LC with a steel die set for just this reason.

Don

 

[brickeyee]

Do the steel dies make this "coke bottle" or "Hourglass" effect ?

All the steel dies I have seen are cut to the correct taper.

The penalty is more sizing effort and lube because of the large contact area (nearly the whole shell, all at once).

The penalty we pay for carbide is that the shell is made a single diameter by the carbide rung.
If the carbide die matched the case taper you would be back to needing lube, lkike the bottle case carbide dies (or even the .30 carbine carbide I saw once).
The large contact area is the problem.

 

[Seedtick]

I like seeing that "wasp waist" look.

It tells me I have a good grip on that bullet and I don't have to worry about it moving until I want it to move.

Seedtick

 

[leadchucker]

My feelings too. I can have some assurance that that bullet won't be pressed further down in the case when the slide on my auto slams it into the chamber.

 

[dickttx]

I have RCBS and Lyman pistol dies, as well as Lee. They all do it on some brands of brass, not so much on others.

 

[xkadet]

Hi folks,

I have a similar problem.... But first I have a couple questions. Do you need an hour glass shape to ensure that the case has a good grip on the bullet? MFGs don't seem to think so because I've never seen a production bullet showing the hourglass. To resolve this, would you need to have a case sizer designed specifically for your bullet diameter?
Machine it yourself?
The problem with my .40 case sizer (lee carbide)is that the bullet tends to expand the case off center.
I'm fairly new to reloading so I appreciate any help here.

 

[LiveLife]

xkadet, the prominence of the bulge depends on the diameter of the bullet and brass quality/condition/thickness that tend to vary by manufacturers. Also, how much work-hardened the brass is and how many times it has been reloaded also affect the amount of bulge seen.

If you are loading jacketed diameter bullets, the bulge is less noticeable. Larger diameter lead and plated bullets like Berry's that are sized more like lead bullets will show more of the bulge but for me, the bulges are indicator of good neck tension on the seated bullet. I believe Lee Precision introduced the Factory Crimp Die (FCD) to smooth out the bulges on cases when using jacketed bullets to duplicate factory like smooth cases (I don't use FCD for lead bullets as it may post-size the diameter of the lead bullets to decrease the proper bullet-to-barrel fit).

To check neck tension, I push on the initial test round against the bench to see if I can seat the bullet deeper. With proper neck tension, even for 115 gr 9mm FMJ bullet that's not seated too deep, I cannot push the bullet any deeper that's measurable with the caliper.

As to the uneven bulge, it could be from tilted bullet during seating and/or from case neck condition of the brass case. As long as I am seating the bullet straight, I don't worry too much about variations in the bulge. Below are examples of the bulge and the jacketed bullet on the left shows less bulge than larger diameter plated/lead bullets.

 

[USSR]

Do you need an hour glass shape to ensure that the case has a good grip on the bullet? MFGs don't seem to think so because I've never seen a production bullet showing the hourglass. To resolve this, would you need to have a case sizer designed specifically for your bullet diameter?
Machine it yourself?
The problem with my .40 case sizer (lee carbide)is that the bullet tends to expand the case off center.
I'm fairly new to reloading so I appreciate any help here.

No, you do not need an hour glass shape to ensure a good grip on a bullet. The wasp waist is simply a result of the way carbide resizing dies are constructed. To resolve it with a carbide die, you would need to have the carbide resizer ring further up inside the die, which is not done for technical/cost reasons (although I have heard that Redding is starting to do it, but get out the big $$$). I am not a big fan of Lee dies. I have one set, for .30 Carbine, and wish I didn't. I know I will take a lot of flack from Lee lovers, but like Moisen Nagants, the reason they are so popular is because they are cheap. If you don't want the wasp waist look, get yourself a set of steel dies.

Don

 

[leadchucker]

I'm pretty much using Berry's plated bullets on all of my loads now, and the hourglass shape does seem to be more noticeable. This isn't too much of an issue with my 45acp or 380 loads, maybe a thousandth or so. It really shows up on my 9mm loads though. Two to three thousandths. I'm guessing it's because of the tapered case of the 9mm.

So, at least for 9mm, would it help to not run the brass all the way up in the sizing die?

 

[Walkalong]

So, at least for 9mm, would it help to not run the brass all the way up in the sizing die?

Since it is a tapered case, yes, to a degree. Just be sure cases will still chamber and neck tension is adequate.

 

[amlevin]

I noticed this about 25 years ago when I started loading 9mm. After shooting a few hundred rounds with no problems I haven't given it any more thought