House Fires First Shot, So to Speak, on Universal Background Checks

[bassjam]

The devil is in the detail but, this is a perfect example of where the Hearing protection Act can come into play. GOP leadership in the House should announce that they are of course supportive of "common sense gun laws" and constantly work to find "common ground" on issues of such importance, so they are perfectly willing to consider "compromise" and possibly support the UBC legislation, provided the Hearing Protection Act is included as a combined bill.

When Dems reject this "compromise", the message is that Democrats reject common sense gun laws, reject common ground solutions, and simply cannot compromise.

I agree with this method. While it'd be nice to dig in our heels and say "no more", that's not going to accomplish anything and our rights will continue to erode. We might as well get something in return for our troubles, and this method puts the spotlight back on the Democrats.

Along with the Hearing Protection Act, the UBC should be able to be performed my anyone by phone or by using an app, any time, any place. FFL's shouldn't be required. Oh yeah, and no record of the background check should be kept.

 

[rpenmanparker]

See right here is the problem. Our rights can not be COMPENSATED. Basically that's like saying we should trade the Freedom of Religion away if they let us keep our plastic drinking straws. No just No. We can not be compensated for our God given rights.

That deity-given right talk is just nonsense. It will get you nowhere fast.

 

[Deanimator]

Tell you what, House Democrats, demand that every Felon-In-Possession arrest followed by a conviction results in application of the mandatory five years in federal prison. THEN, AND ONLY THEN can we begin a conversation about the merits of UBCs.

But even then, you can't trust a word they say.

They're pathological liars, practicing their own brand of secular taqqiyah to hoodwink the gullible and the stupid.

If seventy five years of lies isn't enough proof, I don't know what is.

 

[Deanimator]

I agree with this method. While it'd be nice to dig in our heels and say "no more", that's not going to accomplish anything and our rights will continue to erode. We might as well get something in return for our troubles, and this method puts the spotlight back on the Democrats.

You're going to get no more in return from the proponents of racially invidious gun controls than the Judenrat in the ghettos got from the WVHA.

When you bargain with sociopaths whose sole goal is your destruction, the only thing you get in the end is your destruction.

 

[AlexanderA]

My idea—if anyone asked me—is certainly much like this use of connected technology to do instant checks.

I was talking to a software expert and he mentioned that "blockchain technology" -- the same as used for bitcoins -- could be used for secure NICS checks by the public. I don't know exactly how this would work, but it's worth looking into.

 

[boom boom]

I was talking to a software expert and he mentioned that "blockchain technology" -- the same as used for bitcoins -- could be used for secure NICS checks by the public. I don't know exactly how this would work, but it's worth looking into.

Not ready for prime time right now, a crypto currency blockchain got compromised just the other day and somehow the hackers managed to both spend and get back what they spent in crypto currency.

"Cryptocurrency wallets get hacked all the time, but this hack was different, striking at the blockchain itself. The attackers were able to rewrite the supposedly permanent ledger of transactions, something that should be impossible."

https://www.theverge.com/2019/1/9/1...ic-hack-51-percent-attack-double-spend-crypto

Earlier $500 million dollar hack of crypto in Japan.
https://money.cnn.com/2018/01/29/technology/coincheck-cryptocurrency-exchange-hack-japan/index.html

 

[AlexanderA]

I agree with everything that's been said in this thread about the futility of background checks. They're not going to meaningfully reduce crime, and their burden will fall on the law-abiding.

But I'm also a political realist. It's pretty clear that some form of UBC legislation is coming -- probably not this year, but certainly in the next few years. We should be so lucky if that's all that the antis manage to push through.

The choice is not to stonewall (that's not going to work any more), but to try to mitigate the damage. We need to have our own counterproposals ready.

 

[Choctaw]

I believe that Step One is be willing to talk. Not to be trampled, but to talk. See their point of view. Not necessarily agree with, but see. But be firm in our resolve not to have our rights taken away without compensation. When we gain momentum, then WE can start the dialogue for the next step.

How can you possibly be compensated for giving up your freedom? Hopefully this kind of thinking isn't prevalent throughout the firearms community. If it is we have already lost. Appeasement never, ever works.

 

[BlueHeelerFl]

Why is it that LEO's always get a pass on any of this legislation?

LEO's are subject to the same human failings as the rest of the population. They can be as corrupt or incompetent as anyone else. Why are they exempt from 10 round magazine restrictions? Why would someone like Sheriff Isreal from South FL be allowed to do transfers when this bill would prevent me from doing so?

 

[boom boom]

The whole UBC smoke and mirrors are simply to pass another law that does not work, thus additional laws are needed, and so forth. Note in an earlier THR thread how many people are rejected by currently and then how many are actually charged and convicted. Most of them are committing a crime in doing so (excluding mistakes) by lying on their 4473. Thus, the wail goes up that we must cure the defects of the NICS system by extending it. To create more criminals who are not prosecuted so eventually we all must give up all of our firearms for the children or some other plausible explanation.

In addition, the aim will be to channel everyone through FFL's which can be throttled via things like cutting off their financing and access to credit markets and this will also create "black market" guns like the useless long gun registry did in Canada. Look to California, New York, New Jersey etc. for the future where each new shooting regardless of location will cause the rights deprivation rachet to move forward one notch.

It would be nice to believe compromise would be possible but the billionaire feudal lords like Bloomberg do not want peasants (that is you and me) to have access to firearms. To a guy with over 35 billion depending on the stock market, he could finance a year's worth of mischief by buying state politicians and legislatures with a mere month of earnings of his fortune. Most of the rest of his ilk are as bad, if not worse as leftists act as a coalition to scratch each other's particular policy itch.

 

[badkarmamib]

How can you possibly be compensated for giving up your freedom? Hopefully this kind of thinking isn't prevalent throughout the firearms community. If it is we have already lost. Appeasement never, ever works.

I agree with @AlexanderA , I think UBC's are coming. I also feel like, though a burden, are not a ban on ownership on those who should have them. The same can not be said of the other "steps" the anti's are pushing for. So, if we are going to be stuck with them anyways, shouldn't we be pushing for our own interests, instead of just screaming "NO!", to something that is going to happen regardless? Then, we can't be told we are being unreasonable, we are trying for give and take. As said above, show the undecided how unreasonable the anti's really are.

 

[bassjam]

You're going to get no more in return from the proponents of racially invidious gun controls than the Judenrat in the ghettos got from the WVHA.

When you bargain with sociopaths whose sole goal is your destruction, the only thing you get in the end is your destruction.

But when you don't bargain, you still have your 2nd Amendment rights slowly taken away so we might as well do some horse trading while it happens.

I fully support Gun Owners of America and their "no compromises" stance. But keep in mind, the NRA has compromised more than once when it comes to gun control and it seems most members here prefer to support the NRA.

 

[Old Dog]

I agree with @AlexanderA , I think UBC's are coming. I also feel like, though a burden, are not a ban on ownership on those who should have them. The same can not be said of the other "steps" the anti's are pushing for. So, if we are going to be stuck with them anyways, shouldn't we be pushing for our own interests, instead of just screaming "NO!", to something that is going to happen regardless? Then, we can't be told we are being unreasonable, we are trying for give and take. As said above, show the undecided how unreasonable the anti's really are.

You folks just don't get it, do you? Certainly, you are not following what's happened in states such as mine -- first the UBCs were foisted on us by Initiative 594, comes now I-1639, far more onerous restrictions (ALL semi-automatic rifles here are now classed as "assault weapons") which will create hundreds of felons among previously law-abiding gun-owners.

Give 'em an inch -- and the other side becomes far more brazen and emboldened, constantly reaching for more restrictions.

Oh, and for this new year: the Dem-held state legislature is already introducing legislation banning magazines holding more than ten rounds, among other things -- you guessed it -- they'll be going after ARs as well.

 

[badkarmamib]

If it is we have already lost.

Maybe I am just getting old. Maybe I am just getting tired of fighting and not seeing improvements. Maybe I am tired of hearing the old "Not One More Inch!!!" battle cry, seeing that inch lost, and replaced with, "Okay, not another inch!" I am sick of the same repeated arguments. I am sick of seeing my rights used as bargaining chips. I am sick of worrying what I will have to give up next. I am sick of donations being used to send mailings to ask for more donations, instead of to fight. I was hoping for some new ideas on how to strengthen our position, but, at the end of the day, I am simply tired. So, I will bow out of this discussion here.

 

[Old Dog]

As far as UBCs not being overmuch of a burden -- it's killed private gun sales in our state while adding ridiculous fees (typically $25 to $50 for five minutes of a phone call and paperwork) along with the hassle of trying to find a local FFL who will go through the process without grumbling because you're not buying anything from his store. Created an unfriendly, stupid process that ultimately, does nothing to keep any citizen any safer anywhere.

 

[Kaybee]

The checks themselves are an easy sell, and seems reasonable to a lot of people, but....

The anti gun lobby desperately wants this because they want a full government list of gun owners so they can later confiscate when they pass more laws. A registered list of firearms is a first step of confiscation,. This is proveable both logically through common sense reasoning, but also historically proven many times over.. even recently in the U.S.

Anyone who is against the confiscation of firearms should be strongly against the government keeping a creepy list of gun owners.

 

[Hunter86004]

One thing is for sure if this passes, including a Constitutional smell test, within a couple of years and it's discovered that the law is not working as advertised, it will be because "it didn't go far enough". Nothing short of totally gutting the 2A will ever satisfy some of the antis.

 

[Sovblocgunfan]

As far as UBCs not being overmuch of a burden -- it's killed private gun sales in our state...

Here you go. Game, set and match.

Expect more of the same if we allow this on a federal level. Or expect us all to be lawbreakers like the folks in NJ not complying w the new magazine ban.

 

[Spats McGee]

I have a 2A Right. I do not care if I am seen as unreasonable. If you don't want your 2A right seen as a bargaining chip, don't use it as one.

 

[Trunk Monkey]

UBCs are only a stepping stone to registration. THAT'S the ultimate goal.

Once they know has the guns THEN they'll start pushing for confiscation

 

[Walkalong]

chipping away?

It's what they do. Funny after they take over gun control is the first issue they want to push. What does this tell you? Tells me what I already knew.

Second part of it is trying to make the republicans look like heartless meanies and maybe they'll give in on something else. Maybe even UBCs.

Either way, pushing gun control as their first item is very telling.

 

[Walkalong]

We might as well get something in return for our troubles

Never have before, don't hold your breath.

 

[Flintknapper]

Maybe I am just getting old. Maybe I am just getting tired of fighting and not seeing improvements. Maybe I am tired of hearing the old "Not One More Inch!!!" battle cry, seeing that inch lost, and replaced with, "Okay, not another inch!" I am sick of the same repeated arguments. I am sick of seeing my rights used as bargaining chips. I am sick of worrying what I will have to give up next. I am sick of donations being used to send mailings to ask for more donations, instead of to fight. I was hoping for some new ideas on how to strengthen our position, but, at the end of the day, I am simply tired. So, I will bow out of this discussion here.

Well Sir, welcome to the 'Tipping Point'.

This country has been in a mostly silent culture war for at least the last 25 years. And now we have pretty much reached a 50/50 point of cultural division. Lovely...isn't it?

Want to know how we got there? INCH by INCH.

You don't compromise on 'RIGHTS'. We don't 'bargain' away RIGHTS in hope that those rights die a slower death. We stand up for those rights, they are NOT negotiable. Other things in life are, but not this.

How will this all end? One of two ways IMO:

1. The timid will continue to bargain, compromise, give in, give up, capitulate. The result (quite predictable) being the continued erosion of this country as we have known it in the past.

2. Civil War/Disobedience. I don't want it, I don't advocate it...but in some instances its not the worst thing that has ever happened throughout history.

 

[GEM]

Surprise, if you posted on any gun social media, they know who have the guns. Push the HPA and national reciprocity as amendments.

However, Kavanaugh will save us. Don't worry.

Suggesting Civil War is not acceptable on THR. Futher discussion in that vein will shut the thread.

Read history if you think civil wars aren't one of the worst things that can happen. Get real.

 

[Walkalong]

But I'm also a political realist.

You are always too fast to say let's compromise. No more "compromise", because we never get anything in return. Just say no. It's a nice thought to think we can bargain and get something in return, but we never have, and they ain't about to start now if they have anything to do with it. Give them counter proposals they will never agree to, and then say we tried. Just.... say.... no.