How about hosting your own buy back?

[Owen Sparks]

We here so much about these ridiculous gun "buy back" programs. Sure most of what comes in is junk bur occasional a few real gems get turned in. I got to thinking, what if you lived in a state where it is legal to make private transfers? I see used guns for sale in the paper all the time. Could I not rent a motel room or something and advertise?
_____________________________________________________________

Gun Buy Back!

Turn in your guns for cash and make our streets safer...for the children.

Up to $250 paid!

NO QUESTIONS ASKED!
______________________________________________________________

Of course the "up to" is the operative phrase. If somebody brings in a non functioning clunker I could offer them five bucks and turn it into the cops.

 

[danbrew]

Sure, if you had an FFL.

 

[Drgong]

Better have a FFL, and better check all the # for stolen guns.

The thing that makes be burn more then anything is many times they don't even check the guns to see if they are stolen or not.

 

[Fat Pat210]

If a gun is found out to be stolen is it returned to the rightful owner or is it destroyed?

 

[CoRoMo]

I do this everyday, but I don't advertise, and it's not all that organized. The way I go about it is to try and buy whatever gun someone wants to sell for $100.
So far, nobody has participated at all.

 

[Owen Sparks]

Why would I need an FFL in a state where it is legal to buy guns from the want ads?

I would not be SELLING anything.

 

[CoRoMo]

The thing that makes be burn more then anything is many times they don't even check the guns to see if they are stolen or not.

What would it matter? They don't keep track of who turns what in, and they destroy all the guns. Maybe the original owner could know that the gun was turned in and destroyed. That'd be fabulous.

If a gun is found out to be stolen is it returned to the rightful owner or is it destroyed?

AFAIK, they are all destroyed, never returned.

 

[GRIZ22]

Why would I need an FFL in a state where it is legal to buy guns from the want ads?


Buying in quantity like that can be construed to "engaging in the business"

If a gun is found out to be stolen is it returned to the rightful owner or is it destroyed?

I think that would be dependent on what the program wanted to do. There is another thread (maybe on another forum) which said the police were going to return guns to owners and turn some historically significant guns over to museums. I agree it should be returned to the owner.

This is another problem with funding your own buy back. Many those "gems" you get may be stolen and at the very least you'd be out the money you laid out for it.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=467750

here is the post regarding a buy back in CA where they returned guns and donated others to museums

 

[ezypikns]

Something else to think about.

Let's see. I advertise that I'm setting up in a motel room buying guns. That lets people know that I'm sitting in a motel room on top of a pile of cash.

Hmmmm.

 

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

I think it could very well be done perfectly legally using the "it's for the children" type hype:

1. Get FFL
2. Advertise heavily the time and place in a big city, saying that you're doing this to get guns "off the streets" and be sure to mention that you're teamed up with "Law Enforcement for Safer Streets", an entity you created, in carrying out this "buyback", due to your deep concern for the well-being of the community (which as it turns it, you yourself are a part of).
3. Offer gift certificates to taco mayo or jcpenneys or younameit. Have a tiered system so that they only get $25 value for junk guns, $50 for shootable, re-saleable guns, and $100 for Pythons, Superposeds, Krieghoffs, Colt Walkers and the like.
4. Get an LEO friend to be there at the event to check for stolen as they come in. Tell the participant that it's "no questions asked" as far as the their name and info and freedom is concerned, but they if it's stolen, you'll accept it but cannot offer a gift certificate. Then return stolen gun to rightful owner through appropriate channels. Or just tell them you have to refuse it because it's stolen.

I think it could work and be perfectly legal.

Get the media to cover it and say a lot of things in front of a camera about how it's for the children, guns are evil, stuff like that, and then they will be at your beck and call each time you hold a subsequent 'buyback'. It's just a little white lie, which Forest's mama says is OK cause it ain't hurtin no one.

 

[CoRoMo]

What's the real difference between Owen's idea and some local "civil rights leader" doing so? They don't have an FFL, and like you said, they might run the numbers to find out what's stolen and what's not, and do what they wish with the legit ones. Why couldn't another individual, like Owen, conduct a buy back... for the children?

A little while back, one of Denver's local "civil rights leaders" did this very thing, but it all fell apart on him.

Why can't our own "civil rights leader", Owen Sparks, do this too?

P.S.
I've never heard of a buy back doing anything other than destroying the guns, but that'd be nice.

 

[CWL]

Sounds like you want to open-up the equivalent of a pawn shop operation. In addition to FFL, you may need a business license, carry insurance and be prepared to pay taxes. You may need to demonstrate ownership of a safe as well.

Advertising that you want to buy guns sounds like a you are asking for a visit from both criminals and LEOs.

 

[jakemccoy]

If somebody brings in a non functioning clunker I could offer them five bucks and turn it into the cops.

If your gun buy back doesn't work too well, that's why. Once word got out that you're being picky, people would stop showing up.

Also, I wouldn't rent a motel. I'd rent a parking lot (maybe a church parking lot) or, preferably, have it on my own property somewhere.

 

[jakemccoy]

Could you have a booth set up at a gun show? You could advertise your gun buyback before the gun show by using the normal advertising means. A gun show might be a safer place to have the gun buyback, rather than trying to reinvent the wheel with your own security and whatnot.

 

[Flame Red]

I think it could very well be done perfectly legally using the "it's for the children" type hype:

1. Get FFL
2. Advertise heavily the time and place in a big city, saying that you're doing this to get guns "off the streets" and be sure to mention that you're teamed up with "Law Enforcement for Safer Streets", an entity you created, in carrying out this "buyback", due to your deep concern for the well-being of the community (which as it turns it, you yourself are a part of).
3. Offer gift certificates to taco mayo or jcpenneys or younameit. Have a tiered system so that they only get $25 value for junk guns, $50 for shootable, re-saleable guns, and $100 for Pythons, Superposeds, Krieghoffs, Colt Walkers and the like.
4. Get an LEO friend to be there at the event to check for stolen as they come in. Tell the participant that it's "no questions asked" as far as the their name and info and freedom is concerned, but they if it's stolen, you'll accept it but cannot offer a gift certificate. Then return stolen gun to rightful owner through appropriate channels. Or just tell them you have to refuse it because it's stolen.

I think it could work and be perfectly legal.

Get the media to cover it and say a lot of things in front of a camera about how it's for the children, guns are evil, stuff like that, and then they will be at your beck and call each time you hold a subsequent 'buyback'. It's just a little white lie, which Forest's mama says is OK cause it ain't hurtin no one.

Sounds like a grass roots community organization effort. I think our Prez and his buddies at ACORN would be pleased!

Oh that's right, only they can organize, anyone else that does is a Nazi subversive terrorist.

 

[TexasRifleman]

Buying in quantity like that can be construed to "engaging in the business"

That would be very unlikely.

The definition of "engaged in the business" is defined by law. GCA says:

as applied to a dealer in firearms,
as defined in section
921(a)(11)(A), a person who devotes
time, attention, and labor to dealing
in firearms as a regular course of
trade or business with the principal
objective of livelihood and profit
through the repetitive purchase and
resale of firearms, but such term
shall not include a person who
makes occasional sales, exchanges,
or purchases of firearms for the enhancement
of a personal collection or
for a hobby, or who sells all or part of
his personal collection of firearms;

 

[deadin]

I agree, if you just buy and don't sell, you're not a "dealer". I see permanent ads in the paper all the time for "I buy guns." However, I'm also willing to bet that it puts your name on some sort of a "watch list".

 

[dev_null]

Let's see. I advertise that I'm setting up in a motel room buying guns. That lets people know that I'm sitting in a motel room on top of a pile of cash.

And that you're armed. Many times over.

 

[Zoogster]

The local authorities would likely harass you in an attempt to stop it.

Engaging in business without a permit or being licensed (not just an FFL, but state or local requirements.)
Creating a disturbance in public.
Various gun violations from handling firearms in public.
Possession of stolen property.
Operating a business in the wrong zoning or against local codes.
Considering it a "gun show" without the proper requirements.


I could go on endlessly.
The minor technicalities they don't hold anti-gun buybacks to they will likely use to shut you down.
Even if all it results in is so much harassment to you and those who show up that nobody is comfortable.
So antis can get away with breaking any of those laws, violating codes, zoning, state and sometimes even federal requirements. Especially since it is police departments who often host them and do the actual collecting.
You on the other hand they will not make exceptions for.

If you were to manage to cover yourself legally in every way, they would simply harass the people who show up instead, who would be much less sure of themselves and the law and give in to pressure or threats of arrest.

 

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

I have to disagree zoogster. No they wouldn't shut it down any more than the shut down the other ones that DO go on, because they'll believe it's the same thing - you'll give them no reason to believe otherwise, at least not until it's over and done with and maybe never.

You're just Joe Schmoe, 'anti-violence' crusader, with a passionate heartfelt desire to help the community, and rid the streets of evil evil guns. You're a member of the MMM, Brady Campaign, PETA and the whole nine yards. You're working with law enforcement to rid the streets of guns - after all, GAWDSAKES IT'S FOR THE CHILDREN, PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Of course you went and got an FFL as a reluctant formality, because you have to in order to carry out this thing, in order not to run afoul of the law, as distasteful as getting said FFL is - of course you intend to reliquish that vile license the moment this thing is over.

You set up in a church parking lot with the blessing of LEO agencies that you have contacted and got their endorsement.

The tiered $$ system makes sense from a public safety standpoint, since non-firing junk guns are simply not as dangerous - so you cannot pay as much for them - only $25. That Patterson / Dragoon doesn't appear to fire, so it's only gonna get you $25. But guns which appear to be fire-able pose a much greater risk to the community, so they merit the $50 gift certificate.

You emphasize heavily that you are going to "permanently rid the 'streets' and this community of the turned-in guns". (fortunately for you and unbenownst to them, you live in the next adjacent community - not a lie). They are free to infer that you mean to destroy them.

It's all in how you present it and spin it. Smoke & mirrors works for the good guys sometimes too. It would take some skill, some $$, some P.R. acting, and a little bit of sleight of hand, but it could be pulled off without actually ever lying, if you had a bit of a silver tongue and an organized way of going about it.

But sure, if you already have an established FFL business which can be figured out, or otherwise reveal your true intention, it won't work - they'd find a way to shut you down, more likely than not (but I wouldn't even guarantee that, if you had a lawyer on hand with a pre-written opinion letter on the legality and a dire threat to LEOs for trespassing on private property and interfering with your legal activity).

 

[CoRoMo]

Tad's exactly right.

Alvertis Simmons, Patrick Demmer, and George Roberts did a buy-back in Denver, but it fell apart because of their inept abilities.

There would be nothing to stop another guy, or two guys, or three from doing the same thing. As long as you are not advertising that you are just doing it to get some sweet hardware for cheap, rather, IT'S FOR THE CHILDREN.

You/I could scoop up a number of deals and if any of them didn't work out to be worthy of my ownership, I'd get rid of them with no interest in profit.

Heck, you might even attract a few community activists, civil rights groups, or other types that could do some of the organizing and fund raising for you.

 

[9mmepiphany]

the major legal risk...disregarding the need for a FFL or a business lic...would be the crime of Receiving Stolen Property

granted it can be argued that it's a "gray area", but that's why most gun buy-back events are at least co-hosted by the local LE agency

 

[dev_null]

Interesting response by Tad, but it makes me wonder:

How many of us could spout all the same crap the Gungrabbers do, on record, with a straight face, and look ourselves in the mirror afterwards. And for what? A few dollars or to obtain (or save, if you want to put a nicer label on things) a few firearms?

 

[danprkr]

It'd be all fun and games until some reporter checked into who you are, and outed you as a hypocrite. Which is of course fine for them, but for one of us to be on would be a huge blow for our cause. That being said, you could alleviate that by putting the guns into a program for teaching kids gun safety etc. There's a thread here somewhere with a link to a program like that. Then you're not a hypocrite, you're just channeling the guns to a charitable purpose.

Another option, sell the guns, and give the profit (minus your wages which you set) to some charity - say the NRA's Eddie Eagle program. Of course that could get you right back into trouble on the FFL front, but it's a thought.