How accurate are Mosin 7.62x54 ?

[Bart B.]

...the best group (smallest?)...

... never impresses me. I ignore them when assessing accuracy or precision with ammo and arms. They're seldom bettered or equaled. Several of them don't center at the same place relative to the point of aim. And it's hard to tell if they happened as all variables mostly cancelled each other out or everything was perfect. All other loads with that recipe are larger virtually always.

Shoot ten 5-shot groups atop each other with your 22 rim fire. Best educational tool to learn this stuff.

 

[diyj98]

I have a boat load of Mosins, but would much rather have just about any modern bolt action rifle for hunting. You'll find some accurate Mosins, but remember you're dealing with 70+ year old rifles and many have been treated rough and the bores and or crowns damaged along the way.

 

[Holescreek]

Thank you sir.

Varget is my go-to for 150 grain bullets. Might have to try it with SMKs. At what load are you finding best accuracy?

Regards,

Josh

I hesitated to give a load number yesterday so I looked at the info in the shop today. 44gr Varget under 174gr SMKs keeps the 5 shot groups around .6"-.8" when I'm doing my part. That's about all I'm physically capable of these days with a few rare exceptions. I'd like to see what the rifles could do in the hands of a younger shooter.

 

[Big7]

Most confirmed kills in history. Over 500 by one guy. No telling how many more.

My late Father had one I cut my teeth on. Still in the family.

I have bought two of my own over the years.

Great rifles!

 

[TrickyDick]

Hello,

I get the best group with a H4350, but at 51.2 grains.

Did you happen to try lower than 52.5 grains? If so, did precision suffer or did it look like you were going to hit another node?

Regards,

Josh

Try IMR 4320, 47.3gr. 150gr SP, 2.900"+/- .003"

1.5" group from an unmodified 1939 Izhevsk 91/30. Nyet! Rifle is fine!

 

[fpgt72]

You seem awfully concerned over what others do with their own property.

Why is that?

Ahh....the age ole' cry.

I don't, to a point. I am sure I could come across something that you would call a waste....if say that mosin was a very nice marked Finn....or Remington/Westinghouse, still in the 91 pattern.....if it was an 03 springfield, garand, vintage lever winchester.....would the same things all go true......should we be upset that Pia Zadora leveled Picfair? (google is getting hit right now) With a 91/30 most of the 99 billion of the things are eh....nothing....but you can have that one that specific one that is of historical value....NOW.....push that table 50 years into the future....look back 50 years and think man I would have loved to buy those WWII 1911's for $15.....or the ______.

This is the point.

Now you have some that are just a rifle....and that is all they will ever be....ok....it is always going to be a bottom of the barrel rifle for whatever reason....and lets say for example it is a fantastic shooting example.....I mean this thing will make one hole at 100.....Ever hear if it ain't broke don't fix it.......lets say it is an run of the mill mosin shoots run of the mill and will never be more then run of the mill....do you really think you dumping the cost of a factory fresh rifle into this 90yr old thing will make it put the holes closer together.....do you think it will add to its value.....that is funny right there....nothing even the lowly mosin is never worth more after being "improved"....short of the sucker being born every minute.

So in the end I really don't care.....provided it is not that "special" rifle....and we have all seen that Remington that Bubba has screwed up and we just go....ahh....*&^$^(!%*. WHY.

And do you know the answer to WHY...each and every time.....because it was cheap.

Something wrong there.

 

[entropy]

Well said, fpgt72. I see that Remington M91 at almost every gun show.

When 91/30's were $59, I can see why some people wanted to try to make a silk purse from a sow's ear. It would have been nice if they'd have took the time to learn that the 1942 Ishevsk was made in the highest numbers, and based all their sporters off them. But instead many a Remington, Westinghouse and Sestroryetsk M91 were chopped up to make a cheap hunting rifle or worse, a "tacticool" Mosin. I rescued a 1915 Sesty that fortunately had only been put in an ATI stock, and restored it to it's former glory, and collector value.
But for every one of those, I've seen ten otherwise valuable M91's and M91/30's (ex-dragoons, usually) permanantly ruined, er, altered.
Some say "so, what? There's plenty of them around." That was said about M1903's with the Pedersen Device alteration once, too. (or even with out) Price an original condition one now. Or a Lange Viser Gew98. Or a WWI No1 MkIII. Or P-14 and P-17's. Hell, the WWII versions of these guns have shot up. Your run of the mill '42 Izhevsk 91/30 is at $200 plus now, which can buy you a used Axis with a scope. And it will be more accurate.

I get why some want to try and wring accuracy from a Mosin. I'm fine with that. Just do it to a common year and arsenal if you must. Take a few minutes to find out which ones are common and which are collectible. Would you buy a 5 carat VVS1 or better diamond just to crush it in a press because you needed industrial abrasive?

 

[Clark]

My 273,157 views on youtube are almost all about sporterized Mosins.
I have lots of other helpful videos, but few views. All that sells are the few about converting Mosins:

 

[boom boom]

Clark,
Thanks, I always learn something from your posts just like Rc.

 

[Joshua M. Smith]

Try IMR 4320, 47.3gr. 150gr SP, 2.900"+/- .003"

1.5" group from an unmodified 1939 Izhevsk 91/30. Nyet! Rifle is fine!

Thank you Sir. When business slows some, I will definitely try this.

Regards,

Josh

 

[zb338]

I read a few books about German and Russian snipers in WW2. I was really surprised
at the close ranges they were from each other. Also surprised that the Russians used
scopes that they bought off of the Germans when they were allies.
Zeke

 

[Delford]

I was out last week with a friend and his Remington.308 suppressed and my $85 1929 Ishevsk hex barreled shooting surplus 147 gr fmj ($85/440 rounds). We laser ranged 265 yards. Leupold scoped .308 did great. Iron sight MN did great. Not as tight vs bipod mount but holding the strap seated at a table I was just happy to hit the target (12") several times with both as I've never shot that distance before. I suppose the MN would be fine for hunting up to that range provided the shooter has experience and nothing newer to shoot. I'm not a hunter. I was surprised by the power of .30 at that distance and seeing how flat both rounds were.

 

[illinoisburt]

I was out last week with a friend and his Remington.308 suppressed and my $85 1929 Ishevsk hex barreled shooting surplus 147 gr fmj ($85/440 rounds). We laser ranged 265 yards. Leupold scoped .308 did great. Iron sight MN did great. Not as tight vs bipod mount but holding the strap seated at a table I was just happy to hit the target (12") several times with both as I've never shot that distance before. I suppose the MN would be fine for hunting up to that range provided the shooter has experience and nothing newer to shoot. I'm not a hunter. I was surprised by the power of .30 at that distance and seeing how flat both rounds were.

Your experience should not be surprising. The 7.62*54R light ball ammo is a 150 grain bullet at 2800 fps. It is slightly faster than the 308 (7.62 NATO) 147 grain fmj at 2750 fps. From a power standpoint they are virtually the same in standard factory loads.

The general accuracy of the Mosin as a platform may not be super, but keep in mind a 4 moa rifle would by definition impact within 5 inches of your point of aim at 250 yards. A 2 moa gun would be half that, well within a 12 inch gong at that range. Unless your goal is tiny groups on paper, there is plenty of usable accuracy within 300-400 yards.

 

[fpgt72]

Along the lines of....it is his property...Still feel the same way?

 

[Joshua M. Smith]

His stuff. I don't care either way. It's only... stuff.

As far as hunting, there is at least one family in Alaska using Mosins for survival hunting. The mother uses an M39 and a daughter uses an M38 with one of my sights.

The Mosins do have their advantages. The Germans found this out as well.

Now... Yes, I support research prior to doing anything to your Mosin. If it's a rare one, then you could at least sell it and buy a couple common Mosins. It only makes good financial sense to cash in a lottery ticket!

On the other hand, modders won't touch a significant number of Mosins, even the common 91/30.

If they altered even 1/20th of what's out there, I'd be a millionaire. I assure you, I am not.

Now.. As for myself... Most of the modifications I encourage are fully reversible and are based on Finnish methods.

There is a lot of value in experimental archaeology in preserving the past. How many gunsmithing and other techniques have been lost to modern production methods?

You're talking about preserving samples of the art, while I work to preserve the art itself.

Josh

 

[Clark]

Along the lines of....it is his property...Still feel the same way?

Those pictures are from film. 17 years old or older. Digital color correction does not act night vision on them.
If they are meant to insult the aesthetics of my 51 years of sporterizing rifles, I shall be forced to invoke senate rule 19.

 

[fpgt72]

Those pictures are from film. 17 years old or older. Digital color correction does not act night vision on them.
If they are meant to insult the aesthetics of my 51 years of sporterizing rifles, I shall be forced to invoke senate rule 19.

So that means you are ok with it....got ya.

 

[Joshua M. Smith]

By the preservationist logic, I should not renovate a 100-year-old house.

If I want something more modern than gas lights and coal heating, I must buy a newer house.

If I want the wiring on said house up to code, then I must buy much newer than that.

Because tube and post wiring is fine the way it is, and nyet lead pipes are fine.

... Right..?

Josh

 

[fpgt72]

By the preservationist logic, I should not renovate a 100-year-old house.

If I want something more modern than gas lights and coal heating, I must buy a newer house.

If I want the wiring on said house up to code, then I must buy much newer than that.

Because tube and post wiring is fine the way it is, and nyet lead pipes are fine.

... Right..?

Josh

You sound like a liberal.....guess I have to explain everything in great detail....not going to bother.

 

[Joshua M. Smith]

You sound like a liberal.....guess I have to explain everything in great detail....not going to bother.

So... I make a point, and you get personal? That's really kinda' sad.

Typical, though.

One point on the subject of liberals: Liberals like to control what you do with your own stuff.
Conservatives generally allow the individual the freedom to make that decision.

You're the one telling others what to do with their own property, and then resorting to personal attacks when you can no longer argue. Stereotypical Liberal behavior... right?

I personally don't care about your politics as long as you don't try to infringe on my rights. Be a liberal all you like -- I can see and respect your views even if I don't agree with them. Just stay out of my yard with those views and we'll be just fine. I'll even debate you on neutral ground.

In the end, it's about mutual respect. If you don't want to modify your firearms, I respect your choice. I hope you'd respect my, and others', choices to modify those we own, if we wish to do so.

Regards,

Josh

 

[Big7]

I'll just say this:

I have three, counting the one my late Father had longer than he did me. (over 53, at least)

Between his and my two, all have accounted for a LOT of large game and many hours shooting gongs and paper.

They are TOUGH, reliable rifles. Pretty, not so much. What's on the business end can't tell if it's fired from a $99.00 mil-surp or a $20,000.00
"custom".

Game, gongs and paper don't care. They don't need to be "petted" much.

Goes "BANG" EVERY TIME!

 

[Beach Bum]

I walked into a gun store last year and saw a mosin for $ 900 ......they guy had done all the things you speak of , and who knows how much money he had thrown at it , and in the end he still had a $100 surplus rifle......

 

[Joshua M. Smith]

I walked into a gun store last year and saw a mosin for $ 900 ......they guy had done all the things you speak of , and who knows how much money he had thrown at it , and in the end he still had a $100 surplus rifle......

That's something to consider, but of course these are not for resale.

Regards,

Josh

 

[LoonWulf]

I sold my sporterized izzy for 350 bout 5 years ago. I bought the gun for 40 bucks, otherwise i woulda lost money. Im in the process of trying to sell a Mossberg 500, and a Rar ranch rifle, gonna loose money on those too.
It comes it goes, i dont worry bout the loss too much as i consider it rental fees, and what money I get back goes into the next project.
Not always financial sound, but fun, and cheaper than spending every friday night on the town.
Did that in college, sporterizing hurts less too......

Imo do what you want with what you got, feel free to have opinions about what other people do too, but its their 900 dollar dust collector leave em to it.

 

[fpgt72]

So... I make a point, and you get personal? That's really kinda' sad.

Typical, though.

One point on the subject of liberals: Liberals like to control what you do with your own stuff.
Conservatives generally allow the individual the freedom to make that decision.

You're the one telling others what to do with their own property, and then resorting to personal attacks when you can no longer argue. Stereotypical Liberal behavior... right?

I personally don't care about your politics as long as you don't try to infringe on my rights. Be a liberal all you like -- I can see and respect your views even if I don't agree with them. Just stay out of my yard with those views and we'll be just fine. I'll even debate you on neutral ground.

In the end, it's about mutual respect. If you don't want to modify your firearms, I respect your choice. I hope you'd respect my, and others', choices to modify those we own, if we wish to do so.

Regards,

Josh

Nope not personal....just the argument method you use fits in with the argument method they use.....not a personal attack....grow some thicker skin.