Sav .250
Member
Accurate is what the shooter deems so.
How accurate are Mosin 7.62x54 ?
- Thread starter Matt Dillion
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entropy
Member
When the targets are not live, I agree 100%. A hunter has a duty to shoot accurately enough to kill cleanly, without undue suffering. I have seem many a hunter put up a 12" target at 50 yards, hit it with half their shots, and call that " good enough ". It is not. And it's usually not the gun that is incapable of (or unwilling to learn enough to be) doing so. Almost every Mosin I've shot is capable of hunting accuracy, within reasonable distance, without modification. I had an 1899 Ishevsk M91 that wouldn't group better than 8" at 50 yards. I deem that not accurate enough to take game with. Most of the ones I've shot would stay under 4" at 50 yds. I'd hunt with that, and have. My most accurate Mosin is one of the ones Sears or Wards sold back in the 60's or so, a 1938 Tula that the barrel was cut to 22", and the bolt bent. I did replace the bent bolt with a straight one, easier to manipulate. That one keeps 'em under 2" at 50, 3" at 100. I hunted with it last fall, didn't see any deer.
Joshua M. Smith
Member
I assure you, I'm not hurt at all. I'm a little amused if you want to know the truth. Your accusations seem to be a reflection of your personality, not of reality. You seem to take a most liberal viewpoint so far as others' property is concerned.
But, whatever. I'm done arguing with you. It's pointless because your views are set: You contend that guns should not be modified to suit individual tastes. We should all conform.
Got it!
We've derailed the thread enough with irrelevancies. I let myself be trolled by you, and of that I am guilty. There's an ignore feature on this website and I will use it if I must, though I prefer not to.
To the group: I'm sorry for getting distracted. I'd like to start talking guns again!
Regards,
Josh
Joshua M. Smith
Member
Tell me more about the 1899, would you please?
IIRC, the old cupro-nickel 202grn load and Mosin combination were held to roughly 2moa.
This increased to 4moa with the introduction of light ball, due largely to the twist rate now being too fast.
With steel core, the light ball increased in length and that allowed an increase in precision.
The 7n1 sniper load is slightly longer yet, and is again held to 2moa, again, if memory serves.
I'm curious, therefore, as to the reason your 1899 has so much trouble. Is the crown damaged? What does the bore slug to?
Or, is it another reason entirely?
Regards,
Josh
I am interested in that sears or wards flavor....IIRC those came from bannerman for a time. Can you give more details on that example....do you still own it.....is is one they changed to 3006?
And I let myself be trolled by you....so I guess we are even.
Clark
Member
In 1994, before www gun lists, there was rec.guns on usenet. I started reading about the 1" 5 shot group. Every range I went to, no one came close. I tried. I never came close. In 1998 I was at the Issaquah range and a young guy with a Win 70 coyote 223 got a 1" group. A crowd formed and he explained how he did it with Gold Match ammo and front and rear bags. Then in 2000 a friend bought me a membership to the Tacoma Sportsman range in Puyallup. He shot a 1" group with a sporterized Mosin Nagant with a big old Redfield scope on it. He told me the 180 gr Sierra pro hunter bullets, partial neck sizing, and jammed into the lands his how he did it. The bore was corroded badly. He said he poured a lap out of lead and used valve grinding compound to lap out a tight spot.
I felt like the guy who gets so beat at poker, he is sure he is being cheated. How can a rotten bore old Mosin shoot a 1" 5 shot group at 100 yards? Not some bs internet group, but shot right in front of me?
I figured it all out. Here is a 0.87" 5 shot group @100 yards I shot with a $50 Mosin in 2014.
I put a different barrel on it, a $41 from Ebay Rem700 222 bull take off barrel and reamed it out to 223.
I felt like the guy who gets so beat at poker, he is sure he is being cheated. How can a rotten bore old Mosin shoot a 1" 5 shot group at 100 yards? Not some bs internet group, but shot right in front of me?
I figured it all out. Here is a 0.87" 5 shot group @100 yards I shot with a $50 Mosin in 2014.
I put a different barrel on it, a $41 from Ebay Rem700 222 bull take off barrel and reamed it out to 223.
Holescreek
Member
There are so many bubba'd/hacked up/sporterized mosins in circulation that there is no need to buy even a refurb 91 to start a new build. All of my builds start from pieces picked up here and there because it'more cost effective. Many times they are even free as my Mosin build began. That still doesn't stop the trolls from preaching preservation as if they are single handedly saving the world.
Or the trolls from saying it is just a mosin and their property.
Check back in 50 years and see if you still see it as just a nothing rifle....guess that is why I hang out more on gunboards.....where saving history for future generations actually counts for something and not bubba wanting the latest tacticool 50 yr old rifle showing off his amazing gunsmith skillz with vicegrips and a welder.
Check back in 50 years and see if you still see it as just a nothing rifle....guess that is why I hang out more on gunboards.....where saving history for future generations actually counts for something and not bubba wanting the latest tacticool 50 yr old rifle showing off his amazing gunsmith skillz with vicegrips and a welder.
Thats a fair opinion.
Again tho, will every gun, or tool for that matter, have historic value?
Does it have historic value, beyond something to use as a prod for a history lesson, if you dont know the history of the actual item?
Im of the opinion that there are a real "historic" firearms, those who's history can be traced to events of consequences (either personal or otherwise). Most tho are just tools, who's initial usefulness reached its end and have been repurposed.
Again just my opinion.
Again tho, will every gun, or tool for that matter, have historic value?
Does it have historic value, beyond something to use as a prod for a history lesson, if you dont know the history of the actual item?
Im of the opinion that there are a real "historic" firearms, those who's history can be traced to events of consequences (either personal or otherwise). Most tho are just tools, who's initial usefulness reached its end and have been repurposed.
Again just my opinion.
entropy
Member
Mostly it was a sewer pipe. More than just dark and frosty. It did like the 203 gr. Brown bear SP better than Czech Silvertip, which is what I usually shoot, but it was more expensive, and I didn't care to be walloped. Bore slugged .3125", probably would have benefited from a counterbore. I sold it to a friend who collects and wanted a pre-1900 Mosin.
I still own it, it's the one Mosin I would never sell, because it is so accurate. It is still 7.62x54R. The Bannerman conversions were earlier than the Sears/Wards ones; they are easy to spot, because the barrel is set back a little. Like almost all the Sears/ Wards Mosins, mine has the M1903 front sight, which I believe is the reason it is more accurate-that and the barrel cut to 22 is more rigid, like an M91/59.
I bought mine as a barreled action and trigger guard/mag group at a gun show for $25, and picked up a Hungarian M44 stock for it on eBay for $10. So for $35, I ended up with an accurate Mosin, which is my backup deer rifle. I had bought it for parts, but I shot it in the stock the 1899 came in (bought them at the same time), and decided to buy the stock and keep it as a shooter. Glad I did.
I suppose a pic is in order:
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jaytex1969
Member
Mostly it was a sewer pipe. More than just dark and frosty. It did like the 203 gr. Brown bear SP better than Czech Silvertip, which is what I usually shoot, but it was more expensive, and I didn't care to be walloped. Bore slugged .3125", probably would have benefited from a counterbore. I sold it to a friend who collects and wanted a pre-1900 Mosin.
I still own it, it's the one Mosin I would never sell, because it is so accurate. It is still 7.62x54R. The Bannerman conversions were earlier than the Sears/Wards ones; they are easy to spot, because the barrel is set back a little. Like almost all the Sears/ Wards Mosins, mine has the M1903 front sight, which I believe is the reason it is more accurate-that and the barrel cut to 22 is more rigid, like an M91/59.
I bought mine as a barreled action and trigger guard/mag group at a gun show for $25, and picked up a Hungarian M44 stock for it on eBay for $10. So for $35, I ended up with an accurate Mosin, which is my backup deer rifle. I had bought it for parts, but I shot it in the stock the 1899 came in (bought them at the same time), and decided to buy the stock and keep it as a shooter. Glad I did.
I suppose a pic is in order:
Pretty darn cool.
Beach Bum
Member
I put the mojo sights on my mosins it sure made a big difference
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People talk about the Mosin-Nagant and import restrictions. The supply of both M91/30's and M44's (many of which were in unissued condition) started to dry up well before any restrictions were in place. Most of them came in from the Ukraine, and they simply ran out of them. Are there more over there? Who knows?
Big7
Member
Probably what you were looking at was either an unaltered PU Russian, Older Dragoon or a Finn. Upwards of $900.00 are not uncommon for them.
Some of the finest shooting rifles ever produced. The ultimate are the Mausers. Of that era anyway.
I'd rather have any of the above than most any "modern" rifle. And I do have a few of all of them. Bout all I can think of that I don't have (within reason) would be an AR platform.
I have RECORDED 1000 yard shots at FT. Benning, Ga with two 7.62 Russians, 7.65 Argentine (which was originally "The Belgian", a 6.5 Swedish and many, many with
the Big7. One thousand yards is as long as a civilian can shoot there.
Big7
Member
ppl.. Simple fact of the matter is that the "mighty Mosin" has accounted for a few things:
1) MOST confirmed sniper kills in history. (over 500, by one guy)
2) Still the "medium" machine-gun round for one of the largest forces on the face of the earth.
3) PKM in semi auto.. nuff said.
4) Longest continuous (military) round in history.
5) 1891 was a LONG time ago. Not many then could touch it. 1903A3, twelve years later was the only thing (military)
that had a little edge, not much, 100fps.. That's saying a LOT for this old war horse. Still used all over the planet to harvest large game
and still do the deed, militarily. It's not pretty, but just ask a German what they were the most afraid of?
Answer: Few million Russians with a mighty Mosin.
They will be here LONG after the rest. MILLIONS made. Strong, reliable action and power on par with the ought 6.
Good enough for me.
1) MOST confirmed sniper kills in history. (over 500, by one guy)
2) Still the "medium" machine-gun round for one of the largest forces on the face of the earth.
3) PKM in semi auto.. nuff said.
4) Longest continuous (military) round in history.
5) 1891 was a LONG time ago. Not many then could touch it. 1903A3, twelve years later was the only thing (military)
that had a little edge, not much, 100fps.. That's saying a LOT for this old war horse. Still used all over the planet to harvest large game
and still do the deed, militarily. It's not pretty, but just ask a German what they were the most afraid of?
Answer: Few million Russians with a mighty Mosin.
They will be here LONG after the rest. MILLIONS made. Strong, reliable action and power on par with the ought 6.
Good enough for me.
Gordon
Member
I've had three in my life. The first was a sporter job made on a Russian Carbine in a Bishop stock and had Lyman Sights and a Weaver 2.5x Scope on it. I paid a guy $125 for it in the late 70s and used it as a truck rifle for wild boar in the California mountains till it was stolen in 1983
That gun was decent accurate as I remember , about 2" with US hunting ammo. These two I bought in last 25 years, the erzatz Sniper 1939 was decent and I bought a top part for the scope mount that had a Pic rail so I could put a decent scope on it. With some "heavy ball" " ammo from the 80s , Czech I believe, it would do 1.5" at 100 yards, with a small bag to keep my head up to scope ! I got $1000 dollar offer from a friend for it I couldn't refuse so it went last year. Now I kept the home guard 1928 model . It has a SIG barrel, a decent trigger and was shimmed on the barrel channel so to be sighted in at 200 yards on the lowest sight setting. Not my eyes but my sons eyes has gotten groups as tight as 2" at 200 yards with it with what I have left of that case of heavy Czech ball . I will be keeping that for a while, it is so long and lean!
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I have a M44, a freind and I bought some in Highschool. When I got into shooting a lot, I fully molested it. Stripped it down, cut the bolt, drilled and tapped for sights. Cut a few loops off the trigger spring, did lots of shining up including the bolt lugs and stuff. Polished the hell out of the inside of the barrel. Bought a plastic stock for it. I need to powder coat it now and have the barrel threaded.
It shoots quarter size groups now at 100, shot about 3" groups with a scope before I did any other work and tuned in a good handload.
Hell I sold off the factory stock and cleaning kit so I paid $69 for the gun, 100 for the stock and scope mount, sold the stock and accessories for $40. So not counting the scope on it I'm in it $129 for a MOA shooting rifle. it may be a "bubbaed custom" but it shoots good, it's light weight, the short barrel handles nice in the field and no one is gonna steal it!
It shoots quarter size groups now at 100, shot about 3" groups with a scope before I did any other work and tuned in a good handload.
Hell I sold off the factory stock and cleaning kit so I paid $69 for the gun, 100 for the stock and scope mount, sold the stock and accessories for $40. So not counting the scope on it I'm in it $129 for a MOA shooting rifle. it may be a "bubbaed custom" but it shoots good, it's light weight, the short barrel handles nice in the field and no one is gonna steal it!
Steel Horse Rider
Member
I have 6 of them, all purchased for under a hundred dollars each, and they will reliably ring a 24" x 32" gong at 600 yards. That is accurate enough for me.
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