How Big & Bad Am I With The 1858 Remmy?

[Glen]

Right now my .44 Mag is with the gunsmith for awhile. In the meantime I will be packing my .44 1858 Remington replica and a Bowie knife when I am in the woods. I will of course be far better armed than those folks who have been attacked by cougars or bears and find themselves trying to poke them with ballpoint pens or claw at the creature's eyes with their fingers. But what can my blackpowder gun reasonably handle? I shoot round balls with Pyrodex.
Here in Oregon we have coyotes, cougar, black bear and wolves possibly coming back at some point. I am sure I could handle a coyote but beyond that, I am less sure.
I did run into a bear by surprise a few years ago and he ran off, but I know that attacks, while rare, do happen.
What are your thoughts?

 

[mike101]

Bad enough. I would switch to 777 for a little extra zip. Have you ever thought about A .45 Colt conversion cylinder?

 

[mykeal]

Coyotes - yes
Cougar - yes
Black Bear - You better be a very good shot
Gray Wolf - Maybe, but maybe not...

 

[bigbadgun]

Id rather have a Walker

Coyotes - yes
Cougar - yes
Black Bear - You better be a very good shot
Gray Wolf - Maybe, but maybe not...

 

[Timthinker]

Although I am not a hunter, I have been under the impression that wild animals are afraid of fire and loud noises. A BP handgun produces both. Perhaps some of our BP outdoorsmen could add something to my observation.

I once recall reading an interesting article about an old mountain man who Teddy Roosevelt visited. According to that article, the old timer had killed bears with a knife. How? He would thrust in his blade and run with it. I am not joking. Apparently, that mountain man used a technique resembling the rip cut, in which a person thrust a knife into an adversary and literally pulls the blade vertically, horizontally or diagonally along creating a massive wound channel. This is not something I would want to try on a wild animal, but it is something to ponder.

After some additional research, I discovered the gentleman in question was named Benjamin Vernon Lilly. I hope this helps.


Timthinker

 

[mykeal]

The whole idea is choice. If I have the choice, I'm not intetionally going to eschew a .44 mag for a Bowie knife when considering an encounter with a Black Bear.

One can conjure up all kinds of scenarios, like scaring away the critter with a loud bang and muzzle flash. Maybe, but maybe not. Why in God's name would you choose to bet your life on it.

You need to read the article written by the rangers who went in to the camp of the guy who spent several years in Alaska living with grizzlys, who then ate him and his friend. Six experienced outdoorsmen with high powered centerfire rifles EMPTIED their guns into that bear, and all the rounds hit, and most in 'vital' areas, and it kept coming. If you want to 'ponder' something, try that.

Most of the time, in fact, the vast majority of the time, just the scent of a human will send coyotes, wolves, cougars and black bears in the other direction. Every once in a while, a sick, hungry or injured animal encounters a human and is compelled to attack. Now, they're all different, but a bear (any species) once it's decided to attack, will press it's attack until it's brain dies. That can be two or three really critical minutes even if hit in the heart. Now you're welcome to create any scenario you'd like, and say that won't happen to you, and you're good enough to kill an attacking bear with a well-placed knife thrust and parry, but me, I'm gonna carry the biggest, fastest rifle I can carry. With the biggest magazine I can find that fits. Yup. I'm a woose.

By the way, I live in black bear country, in the woods. We have coyotes, gray wolves, black bear and cougars (although DNR can't admit to the cougars yet). I spend a lot of time in the woods. It matters to me.

 

[Pulp]

Just take someone with you that you can outrun!

 

[Timthinker]

Mykeal, I agree that a .44 caplock revolver and bowie knife are not the best weapons for fighting any wild animal. Indeed, I did not recommend them as "bear fighters" if my memory serves me correctly. I did recount the story of Ben Lilly to demonstrate what a determined person can accomplish. In no way do I advise people to hunt wild animals with a blade. But this thread seem like an appropriate place to recount Mr. Lilly's feat. Actually, he killed six bears during his life using this technique.

The subject of the rip cut as a knifing technique is something that I would like to see discussed as a self-defense technique someday. If that subject emerges, then I will retell the story of Ben Lilly only to attest to the effectiveness of this move. That is something to ponder. I hope I have clearified my position.


Timthinker

 

[mec]

Black Bear - You better be a very good shot

Agreed, but back in the 1960s, a guy named Al Gorge started putting telescopic sights on handguns. they were rifle sights as long eye relief handgun scopes had not yet been developed. One of the things he did was put a scope on an original 58 remington. He went black bear hunting with it and wrote that it made him nervous to have to step around the cloud of smoke to see if he had killed the bear. Apparently, it worked that time.

 

[scrat]

If i was going to go out with a BP hand gun i guess it would be my walker. A good follow up would be my cva buckhorn with 150 grains of pyrodex pellets. That for sure will take anything down. As long you do not miss.

 

[Glen]

To Mike101

Those conversion cylinders cost some bucks. I think I'll keep it simple and stick with what I have.

To all--good responses.

It sounds like I am in good shape with everything I am likely to run into except the black bear. I am certainly glad we do not have grizzly, brown or polar bears around here. I have seen them stuffed and that is the only way I ever want to see them.

 

[Evil One]

Load it up with some 777 and a big lube bullet and you should be ready for most things you run across.


Evil

 

[GENTLEMAN OF THE CHARCOAL]

Aside from all of that, a fully charged .44 Colt Walker loaded and capped all the way around and in the hands of a man who know's how to shoot it (I said SHOOT it, I didn't say just bang bang with it) is a fearsome weapon....
As an after thought, here's what I myself would do if I was ever hurt in the woods under any circumstances and couldn't get myself out and figured no one was trying to find me. I would set the whole damn mountain on fire. Somebody is going to come out there trying to put it out and they will find me. If they asked me anything about it I would tell them I was hurt and built myself myself a fire and then I must have blacked out for a few moments from my injury, and the fire got out of control. The Forest Ranger and the lawyers and the Judge and Fox News could take it from there, I wouldn't give a s***....

 

[Macmac]

Most of these critters will run given the chance. The ones of these that don't run are sick, and that bowie might save you in that event to go get shots.

In the event of a big bear that doesn't run too? Well, you just might want to file the front sites off that gun....

 

[Misfire99]

There is a very good movie called "Fly Boys." It's about Americans going to France to fly airplanes against the Germans during WW1. There is a scene where an American is passing out revolver to the troops that haven't been there as long as he. On of the new guys says "What are those for?" The reply was "If your plane catches fire you have three choices, you can jump from several thousand feet. You can burn with it all the way to the ground or you can take the quick and painless way out." I sort of see the cap and ball revolver filing the same roll.

A coyote, cougar and wolf can be diswaded with a large branch or baseball bat so you might be able to do the same with a pistol. If you can hit them with the butt hard enough. Black bears will usually run away on their own. But if you are lucky enough to get an adolescent male black bear then you might actually have to shoot it. But they can move very fast. Your best hope is to wait until it's mouth is around the muzzle and then pull the trigger. You have less chance of missing that way. If nothing else that will get their attention.

 

[Macmac]

mama bears are the ones that bother me, when they are with cubs.

A few years ago rabies was big in NH, and then I had fears.. In the event you think a strange actting animal may have rabies, and you feel a need to dispatch it, don't shoot the head! You will need the brains in good order for testing.

Never touch one with out good chemical gloves either! That goes for mange too. Both will do things to wild animals you would never see with most house pets.

Well cared for house pets can come by these illnesses, but hopefully would get proper attention sooner.