How do I get rifle instructors to buy into a 6 o’ clock hold?

[Reloadron]

For target shooting and target shooting only with iron sights I like and use the 6 O'Clock, holding and squeezing. sight picture, sight alignment and breathing.

I agree it is only really suitable for target at a fixed range but when shooting military high power Marine Corps it was what I was taught and it worked for me. Offhand at 200 yards X number of clicks of elevation, check the dope book. Move back to the 300 and change the elevation, check the dope book and finally at the 500 change the elevation and check the dope book. All well and fine till a cross wind comes along.

Anyway, it was what I was taught and it has always worked for me. I guess it is a matter of what each individual shooter is comfortable with.

How do I get rifle instructors to buy into a 6 o’ clock hold?

Have them read material like this CMP material. There are also countless online images of 6 hold, sub 6 hold, center hold.

Here is an old THR thread on the subject for what it's worth.

Ron

 

[Warp]

FWIW, at Appleseeds we don't teach one or the other, we present both and shooters decide what they want to use.

I like it that way. It's not something I would necessarily want to 'force' on anybody.

 

[mac66]

As stated in Appleseed we don't specify either but for our purposes the 6 o'clock hold tends to be favored with iron sights. Also be aware that the farther away from the target the more your front sight tends to obscure your target. Black sights on small black target is hard to see.

I suggest that if you want to really improve your shooting particularly for high power, come to an Appleseed.

 

[Arizona_Mike]

One method scales with range and target size, leaving only ballistic correction, one does not. If the goal of competition is to teach general shooting skill, I clearly have a favorite.

Mike

 

[ClickClickD'oh]

I’m having a devil of a time training the trainers to get the Scouts to aim at 6 o’clock. Thoughts?

Well, first off, you are talking to the wrong people. If they are NRA instructors they will only teach what the NRA says. If they are teaching anything else, they are doing it wrong. Talk to the NRA and try to get them to change their training materials.

 

[browningguy]

I also don't like a 6 o'clock hold with rifles, to each his own I say. Funnily enough I do use it with pistols.

 

[Curator]

Wtr600:

You are correct in trying to teach the 6'oclock hold for Boy Scout merit badge qualifications provided your rifles have a "post-type" front sight and you are using official 50 foot NRA targets. Yes it is difficult to convince boys who want to shoot bullseyes to put the front sight at the bottom of the target. However this is where your teaching style comes into play. I usually tell the new shooters that scores don't count but group size does. I also explain how different ammo may shoot to a different place and the whole sighting in process. Then once they are shooting nice small groups I get them to adjust their sights to put them in the bullseye. (that is part of the merit badge requirements)

Don't be too had on the National Camp School trained instructors. They don't have time to really complete the entire rifle, shotgun, muzzle loading rifle instructor ratings what with campfires and fellowship get-to-gethers and the NRA staff simply wave the 'Magic wand" over them justifying this with: they are only working with Boy Scouts." Unfortunately they are given full instructor ratings not some restricted version. In truth, they are only half-qualified but have the "paper."

We are dealing with this at our two Scout camps with National Camp School trained "BSA shooting sports directors" who do not know how to rig a sling and have no training on any shooting position other than bench-rest. (and even that is poor to non-existent) Forget muzzle loading rifle--but they did bring home a big pile of papers!

The four new BSA Shooting Sports Directors who returned from last year's National Camp School certification did not know any "benchrest" shooting position other than elbows on the bench. They had never had sand bags or adjustable rests explained or demonstrated at Camp School instruction. They also had no instruction on semi-automatics, lever action, or actions other than single shot bolt actions. Pretty sad really.

 

[kBob]

Howdy. Yes I read all the posts.

For known distance Bullseye shooting AND to teach the basic skills needed to move on to other forms of shooting with a post front, sight 6 o'clock hold, lollypop, pumpkin on a fence post is the way to go.

Period.

Take a look at the old US military manuals describing zeroing on the Canadian bull, get the old training pamphlet "Only Hits Count", actually shoot 50 foot three position rifle with post front sight. 6 o'clock actually does give the best scores/groups.

A kid that can clean ten 50 footer targets using a 6 o'clock hold can learn to shoot in the field better than one that scores 80s with a center hold. For field shooting they will have to learn ballistics capabilities of their given rifle and ammo combination whether they learned center hold or 6 o'clock.

Give them the confidence they need with the high scoring 6 o'clock scores. Give them the shooting corrections that have meanings with the 6 o'clock scores. Teach them to shoot well first, then worry about targets of unknown size and range.

-kBob

 

[wtr100]

Thanks all

Good news is when we get our new Savage rifles in Summer of 15 they will have aperature front and rear sights so we'll be teaching dot in the hole in the hole in the hole ....

 

[68wj]

Thanks all

Good news is when we get our new Savage rifles in Summer of 15 they will have aperature front and rear sights so we'll be teaching dot in the hole in the hole in the hole ....

Problem solved, or created when they get a front post equipped rifle, either way shoot straight and safe.

 

[Col. Plink]

So wouldn't the answer be "make sure your rifles are sighted-in for what you're teaching"? The difference in holds is the difference between hitting the bull and not (based on how it was sighted-in), and I know the bulls're only .22' wide so it makes a world of difference.

If you have peep-and-post sights, you should probably sight them in for 6 o'clock hold since you have a predictable range distance you'll be using (and it allows the defined sight picture needed to hit the same aim point each time).

Or just go with peep-in-peep sights, as has been mentioned (and which I feel is optimal for your task).