How do Nosler Accubonds perform at their rated minimum velocity?

[Macchina]

I am working up a 30-06 load with 180 grain Accubonds and should end up between 2750 and 2800 FPS when I find the most accurate load which puts me just above the manufacturer rated minimum of these bullets (1800 FPS) at 500 yards.

I've shot confidently to 400 yards and have a nice straightaway picked out for getting out to 500 yards as soon as it warms up here. I can actually shoot about half a mile at this spot but we'll start at 500. I don't plan on making this kind of a shot ever unless I can get prone or an shooting from a stable rest but I'd like to know this bullets performance ceiling.

My question is: has anyone used these exact bullets on Whitetail deer at or below their rated velocity? I'd love to hear your results.

 

[jmr40]

I've not shot any game with them, but do load and shoot them. I can get 2800 fps +/- about 20 fps. According to my calculations using Hornady's website they should still be well over 1900 fps, closer to 2000 fps @ 500 yards if started at 2800. They drop below 1800 fps at around 600.

My personal limit right now is 400, but I'd think they would do fine if someone has the skills to make hits @ 500 yards.

If you really want to push things look at the 190 gr long range accubond. It will maintain 1800 fps to about 700 yards. Or consider the Berger hunting bullets. They expand well at slower speeds and might make a better long range bullet.

 

[utvolsfan77]

Macchina, I'm doing the exact same thing except I am working up loads using the 165 grain Nosler Accubond for my .30-06 Remington 700. I'm using IMR 4350, Winchester brass, and Winchester large rifle primers. I have a bunch loaded at different charge weights, but the weather has been crap for several weeks and I haven't been able to get to the range to chronograph them.

I'm sure I'll eventually find a sweet spot on the charge weight, but I'm wondering how these will perform on deer out to around 300 yards.

 

[Fremmer]

The manufacturer sets a minimum for good reason, and IMHO I wouldn't plan on using it at or near the minimum on an animal.

 

[Andrew Leigh]

I am working up a 30-06 load with 180 grain Accubonds and should end up between 2750 and 2800 FPS when I find the most accurate load which puts me just above the manufacturer rated minimum of these bullets (1800 FPS) at 500 yards.

I've shot confidently to 400 yards and have a nice straightaway picked out for getting out to 500 yards as soon as it warms up here. I can actually shoot about half a mile at this spot but we'll start at 500. I don't plan on making this kind of a shot ever unless I can get prone or an shooting from a stable rest but I'd like to know this bullets performance ceiling.

My question is: has anyone used these exact bullets on Whitetail deer at or below their rated velocity? I'd love to hear your results.

I use 180gr. Accubond's exclusively in my 30-06 at 2 620fps MV. I have shot Kudu, Blue Wildebeest (notoriously tough), Impala, Warthog. Generally from 150 to 250m range.

I cannot get my 23.75" barrel up to 2 750fps without being over pressure. I would be curious to know what powder you plan to use and your barrel length from bolt face to muzzle?

 

[Macchina]

I'm using H4350 with a 22" barrel in Winchester brass. I know loads in Federal and Lapua brass tend to get higher pressures faster.


I am only guessing about the projected velocity, but it seems very doable based on other's experiences. The new Winchester (FN) barrels also tend to be quite fast.

I'll be sure to report back once I have some results.

 

[Captcurt]

Put it where it needs to be.

When working up a load for my Contender chambered for 7mm TCU I had doubts about bullet performance at minimal velocities. I settled for the 120gr Nosler Ballistic Tip. After taking 2 deer this past season I can attest to their performance. One shot hit on the point of the shoulder, traversed the torso and exited the flank. It was one of the messiest field dressings that I have ever seen, and I have witnessed a few hundred. The Accubond is my goto bullet for my butt kickers and I would not be afraid to take a 500 yard shot with them. The only light loads that I have shot that were near minimum in a rifle was 165gr in a 30-30 bolt gun. Both deer died, and the bullets were not recovered, so I guess they worked.

The 45 and 50 caliber lead bullets fired from 300+ yards nearly exterminated the American Bison and I doubt if they expanded much unless they struck the shoulder blade. Expansion doesn't kill. Shot Placement does.

 

[Andrew Leigh]

I'm using H4350 with a 22" barrel in Winchester brass. I know loads in Federal and Lapua brass tend to get higher pressures faster.


I am only guessing about the projected velocity, but it seems very doable based on other's experiences. The new Winchester (FN) barrels also tend to be quite fast.

I'll be sure to report back once I have some results.

I once made a big mistake trying to get factory velocities from standard off the shelf powders. I believe that factories blend powders to get the right pressure v. speed profile. I had my .375H&H at 74 500psi before I saw the light.

All things being equal and having all your components at SAAMI specs, using your powder choice and with a 22" barrel this is what you can expect. This is accuracy Node 5 according to the Optimum Barrel Time theory which works. There will be slight variations in your components which will cause minor upward or downward fluctuation. Pressure is acceptable.



Should you wish to chase 2 750fps this will be your probable outcome. Not only will you be over pressure but you will also have a compressed load and not be on an accuracy node.



Most loads are developed for a 24" barrel, in your case I simulated this and before starting you are giving away 50fps for the 2" barrel reduction. Even the first load is mildly compressed.

I would urge extreme caution if you are chasing 2 750fps.

 

[climbnjump]

Perhaps I don't understand, but it sounds like you are setting up to take a shot at the extreme range of your ability with a load that is running right at if not over max pressure and with a bullet that the manufacturer states will be at or below the very low end of its performance envelope.

So, besides all the other variables that will also be in play, you are counting on these THREE extreme factors to all line up in your favor at the same time for a shot at a live animal?

If so, I would respectfully suggest rethinking at least part of your strategy.

 

[Macchina]

Wow, thanks for running this through for me.
The Hodgdon reloading data lists a max of 57.5 grains of H4350 under a 180 grain bullet (Sierra SPBT) in the 30-06. I have not seen any pressure signs with this load in the least (run through 2 different rifles in the past). To be clear, I have not worked up a final load in this rifle (Winchester Model 70) and will be working up from 55 grains. I see that you ran 56.8 grains which is almost a grain under Hodgdon's max charge and the charge I have loaded up to for the other rifles in the past. You show this as a compressed load...

A possible explanation of our different observations: When I fill my Winchester cases with 57.5 grains of H4350 I get (just barely) less than a compressed load. This load is measured at .53" from the mouth of my case with a caliper. I am loading the 180 grain Accubond to a COAL of 3.36" (0.010" off the lands in my Winchester) which gives me a seated depth of 0.51" of the bullet in the case. The base of the bullet is close to the junction of the shoulder and the body of the case, meaning there is a bit of space around the boat tail and in the shoulder of the case. I can definitely hear powder when I shake the loaded round.

Having said all of that: thanks for running this through quick load. I will keep an eye on case head expansion as I work up this load in this rifle. You provided me with some very good information and I will read through it carefully.

I once made a big mistake trying to get factory velocities from standard off the shelf powders. I believe that factories blend powders to get the right pressure v. speed profile. I had my .375H&H at 74 500psi before I saw the light.

All things being equal and having all your components at SAAMI specs, using your powder choice and with a 22" barrel this is what you can expect. This is accuracy Node 5 according to the Optimum Barrel Time theory which works. There will be slight variations in your components which will cause minor upward or downward fluctuation. Pressure is acceptable.



Should you wish to chase 2 750fps this will be your probable outcome. Not only will you be over pressure but you will also have a compressed load and not be on an accuracy node.



Most loads are developed for a 24" barrel, in your case I simulated this and before starting you are giving away 50fps for the 2" barrel reduction. Even the first load is mildly compressed.

I would urge extreme caution if you are chasing 2 750fps.

 

[Macchina]

Perhaps I don't understand, but it sounds like you are setting up to take a shot at the extreme range of your ability with a load that is running right at if not over max pressure and with a bullet that the manufacturer states will be at or below the very low end of its performance envelope.

So, besides all the other variables that will also be in play, you are counting on these THREE extreme factors to all line up in your favor at the same time for a shot at a live animal?

If so, I would respectfully suggest rethinking at least part of your strategy.

I think you understand it correctly, however if you read the title of this post you will see that I am asking for real life experience of this bullet when used at what the manufacturer says it still should be used at. I am not declaring that I am seeking this kind of a shot, however I plan to have a set distance that is my absolute max. This thread is to help me gauge performance of the bullet.

I will work up to the manufactures max charge like my normal reloading routine and stop if I hit pressure signs. If I have a really accurate load at 1 grain or less below max then I'll stop there. If this wasn't a hunting load, I would just stop when I got to my desired accuracy but velocity is important to me on this round. After I pick a load I will use my muzzle velocity to determine my maximum range where the bullet stays above my desired impact velocity. I'm trying to decide what that velocity needs to be for Whitetail Deer.

I have shot enough at long range to KNOW that I cannot make a shot beyond 300 yards without a good setup. Like I said above, I need to determine my ability to shoot at what my max range is before I ever try to take game at that range.

 

[climbnjump]

...if you read the title of this post you will see that I am asking for real life experience of this bullet when used at what the manufacturer says it still should be used at.

Perhaps you have already checked there, but Nosler has a forum on their website and you might get more response to your question there.

Also, if you aren't completely set on that particular bullet, then as jmr40 pointed out above, Nosler has a 190 gr Long Range AccuBond that might be a better choice. It will be a bit slower at the muzzle, but the increased BC will overcome that downrange. However the larger factor with that bullet that will help you out is that the minimum recommended velocity is 1300 fps as opposed to 1800 fps for your current selection.

(Personally, I've shot a cow elk and a mule deer with a 140 gr AccuBond out of a .270 WSM and neither took a single step, but the range for each was only about 200 yards, so that's not a data point that helps you.)

 

[ford8nr]

I settled for the 120gr Nosler Ballistic Tip. After taking 2 deer this past season I can attest to their performance. One shot hit on the point of the shoulder, traversed the torso and exited the flank. It was one of the messiest field dressings that I have ever seen, and I have witnessed a few hundred. The Accubond is my goto bullet for my butt kickers

Captcurt, as I'm sure you are aware the Nosler Ballistic tips and Accubonds are two VERY different bullets. Ballistic tips have low weight retention, hense the internal mess and Accubonds are designed to stay together. I hunted two seasons with BT's out of two different .308's with moderate handloads and took 3 deer between my son and I. The BT's inconsistent bullet path after entry due to it coming apart was a reason to go back to Sierra Gamekings.

 

[Captcurt]

Captcurt, as I'm sure you are aware the Nosler Ballistic tips and Accubonds are two VERY different bullets. Ballistic tips have low weight retention, hense the internal mess and Accubonds are designed to stay together. I hunted two seasons with BT's out of two different .308's with moderate handloads and took 3 deer between my son and I. The BT's inconsistent bullet path after entry due to it coming apart was a reason to go back to Sierra Gamekings.

I have had very good luck with the Accubonds in my 257 Weatherby and 300 WSM. I actually recovered a 110gr from the Weatherby. It still weighed 67gr with a nice 32 caliber mushroom. Looked like the old CorLokt ad.

 

[Andrew Leigh]

Wow, thanks for running this through for me.
The Hodgdon reloading data lists a max of 57.5 grains of H4350 under a 180 grain bullet (Sierra SPBT) in the 30-06. I have not seen any pressure signs with this load in the least (run through 2 different rifles in the past). To be clear, I have not worked up a final load in this rifle (Winchester Model 70) and will be working up from 55 grains. I see that you ran 56.8 grains which is almost a grain under Hodgdon's max charge and the charge I have loaded up to for the other rifles in the past. You show this as a compressed load...

A possible explanation of our different observations: When I fill my Winchester cases with 57.5 grains of H4350 I get (just barely) less than a compressed load. This load is measured at .53" from the mouth of my case with a caliper. I am loading the 180 grain Accubond to a COAL of 3.36" (0.010" off the lands in my Winchester) which gives me a seated depth of 0.51" of the bullet in the case. The base of the bullet is close to the junction of the shoulder and the body of the case, meaning there is a bit of space around the boat tail and in the shoulder of the case. I can definitely hear powder when I shake the loaded round.

Having said all of that: thanks for running this through quick load. I will keep an eye on case head expansion as I work up this load in this rifle. You provided me with some very good information and I will read through it carefully.

The compressed load relates to the case fill with the bullet seated and not the case fill as viewed before seating.

I did not experience any pressure signs at 74 000psi either?

One must be very careful when comparing apples with pairs. Not all bullets are created equal. Hogdgon uses a 180 Sierra SPBT as their reference point, the Sierra is 1.288" long while the Accubond is 1.381" long. The have different ogives and therefore different COL's.

Simulating in QL with the Sierra's the pressure is still over maximum but within the SAAMI +- 2 000psi. The QL numbers are almost identical to the Hogdgons velocity and note that the Hogdgons pressure is quoted in CUP and not SAAMI Piezo.

I encourage you to follow the recipe I outlined in the first of the QL extracts, chrony the speed and we will tweak the load accordingly.

 

[nw_aggie]

I've seen where at longer range the accubonds perform much like a fmj...little hole in, little hole out, not much in between. This was out of a 257wby with factory loads on a whitetail this fall.

 

[Andrew Leigh]

While being concerned over your load I neglected to tell you about Accubond's which happen to be my exclusive hunting bullet.

Firstly lets me state that I am firmly of the opinion that shot placement takes precident over any bullet construction if it did not our forefathers would never have survived with those soft round lead things that left the barrel at low speed. Bullets remind me of fishing lures, they mostly catch fishermen.

I shoot 300gr / .375H&H, 180gr / 30-06, 130gr / 6.5x55. I have never lost an animal and neither have I needed to walk more that 30yards to locate mine. Having said which this is also true for SGK's. In fact often an animal will drop quicker with the more frangible bullets.

Keeping with the 30-06 with a 180gr. At 50/60yards a shot behind the shoulder of a young Kudu Bull will whistle through and leave an exit wound of about 5/8", the impact velocity will be 2 536fps. The internal rupturing of internal organs is more than sufficient to cause massive haemorrhaging and the animal cannot venture far.

At 275 yards, impact velocity of 2 241fps, shoulder shot on a large Kudu Bull the bullet did not exit and was not recovered. Bull circled on the spot and went down with a neck shot.

At 200 yards a Blue Wildebeest (tough animal) with an impact velocity of 2 346fps on the shoulder. Bullet recovered from underneath the skin on opposite shoulder, perfect deployment but more due to the toughness probably of the Wildebeest over a softer skinned antelope.