One bullet for mulies and elk

[Sheepdog1968]

It's in South East Idaho. I can't recall the units and I don't have my tag in front of me...maybe units 70-74? Or 71-74.

I have a buddy that lives there and we put in for a party hunt. I can't wait. Lots of work to do before October. Load workups, shooting, hiking...lots of fun work.

That's a good problem to have. I'm also having to replace my bullets for my 30-06 in CA as the lead bullet ban is starting to phase in this year and will be mandatory everywhere by 2019. I will use up the CoreLoks at the range for practice.

 

[gamestalker]

The bullet I've been using since the mid 80's for everything from antelope, elk, black bear, and mule deer, is the Speer 145 gr. Hot Core in 7mm RM, and 130 gr. in the .270 win. Those Hot Cores are super accurate, and they will bust through anything on the N. American continent.

Hands down the best powder I've run with that bullet, is RL22. I shoot consistently under an inch groups screaming at 3200 fps with that combination. I've seen more mule deer and elk taken with this load than any other, because that's what I use and also load for family and friends. IMR-7828 is also a winner and will perform very similar to RL22 in this respect.

The hunt that got me hooked on the Hot Core was back in the 80's. I shot a bull with my .270 win. and 130 gr. Hot Core moving along at 3150 fps.. It was the last day of the hunt, and the only shot I had was with the butt facing me. I shot, and the bullet ran straight up the spine. The bullet busted through every single vertebra and finally came to a stop at the base of the neck. That bull dropped right there. When I retrieved the bullet, it was very nicely mushroomed. When I cleaned all the bone off, I threw it on the scale, and it had retained something like 93% of it's weight, simply amazing. IMHO, the Hot Core is one of the best big game bullets ever manufactured.

I also dropped an antelope that same year at about 600 yds. using a Hot Core.

After reading another response above, I wanted to add something to this about the Game King. I would like to say I'm not knocking the GK, but that would be a lie. A few years back I couldn't find a box of Hot Cores in time for our hunt, so I went with the GK for a mule deer hunt my Son and I had been drawn for. Both of us killed our deer, but I wasn't at all impressed with the performance. My Son hit his mule deer broad side, but high, and the bullet struck the spine and stopped right there, the bullet completely exploded into tiny pieces. Mine was similar, except I hit him in the shoulder and the bullet did the same thing, I had to shoot him a second time to bring him down.

GS

 

[Art Eatman]

Some of the Sierra bullets can be driven too fast for the strength of the jacket. Mostly, the lighter weight boat-tails. The heavier boat-tails and the flat-base bullets don't blow up.

So said a Sierra guy, posting at TFL some ten or so years back.

My own observation of "blow-up" is with the .243 85-grain HPBT; in 30-caliber, the 150-grain SPBT and the 165-grain HPBT.

 

[Skyshot]

Can't say about elk performace, never had the pleasure but the 160 gr. Accubonds have been 100% on black bear, griz, caribou and whitetails for me. That same load was 100% for a friend who used them on kudu, eland and wildabeest in Africa. Shooting 63.gr. of IMR7828.

 

[X-Rap]

I've seen a lot of 180 SGK's through 300WM and they have performed well on elk. A lot of the guys I hunt with use them either in factory or reloads, I load a lot of them for those in my family as well.

 

[oneounceload]

Lots of work to do before October. Load workups, shooting, hiking...lots of fun work.

If you are not used to elevation, and will be hunting high country your exercise routine should have started about 6 months ago. Hit stairclimbers or a local stadium - preferably with the gear you'll be wearing. get there a few days early and let yourself get acclimated to the elevation - it can be a real serious scenario otherwise.

I lived on the Western Slope of CO and in northern NV for decades and now when I go back, I can get easily winded due to the huge difference in elevation - and that is without gear or trying to climb a shale slope.

Good Luck!

 

[gamestalker]

Some good advice there from Ounceload. I hunt every year at 8,000 to 10,000 elevations, and it's a tough transition for someone who spends most of their time at 2k - 3k elevations. But fortunately for me, I have a 10,000' mountain in my back yard, so too speak, thus I am able to physically acclimate prior to the hunting season, other wise, I would be in over my head. I've taken a lot of folks hunting over the years, and I think the biggest factor that sends them packing, is their lack of physical preparedness. I had a guy just last deer season that threw his hands up after killing his deer, and just said, "keep the meat, I'm out of here, I just can't do this". And that was only at 6,000'.

GS

 

[earlthegoat2]

I really don't have much bullet experience but I have a ton of 12 and 20 gauge slug experience and some of the sabots use actual handgun and rifle cartridge bullets.

After shooting several pigs with Lightfield, Foster, and Barnes slugs I was pretty impressed. When I shot a few pigs with a rifle finally, two were with a 7mm VZ-24 loaded with A-Frame bullets. The wounds on the pigs were similar to the shotgun slugs. Later on, I shot a dozen more in a day with a 6.5mm Mauser rifle also with A-Frames.

At the time I was ignorant. I knew A-Frame bullets were held in high esteem but I did not realize they were probably overkill for medium game. Nonetheless they did the job splendidly and I cannot recommend them enough for a critter the size of mulies or elk.

 

[Leanwolf]

GSPN - "It's in South East Idaho. I can't recall the units and I don't have my tag in front of me...maybe units 70-74? Or 71-74. "

That's the Bannock Zone. There is some good hunting there. Hope you score a nice bull elk and Mule deer and have a good time.

L.W.

 

[gspn]

That's the Bannock Zone. There is some good hunting there. Hope you score a nice bull elk and Mule deer and have a good time.

L.W.

Thanks! Hopefully I'll be able to report back here in late October with a good story.

 

[H&Hhunter]

The hunt that got me hooked on the Hot Core was back in the 80's. I shot a bull with my .270 win. and 130 gr. Hot Core moving along at 3150 fps.. It was the last day of the hunt, and the only shot I had was with the butt facing me. I shot, and the bullet ran straight up the spine. The bullet busted through every single vertebra and finally came to a stop at the base of the neck. That bull dropped right there. When I retrieved the bullet, it was very nicely mushroomed. When I cleaned all the bone off, I threw it on the scale, and it had retained something like 93% of it's weight, simply amazing. IMHO, the Hot Core is one of the best big game bullets ever manufactured.


GS

GS.....

Plain and simple. No....What you describe here is physically impossible. I don't care if you were shooting a .500 Jeffery with 570 gr Uranium Depleted flat nosed solids. And with a 130 gr .270 soft point, did not happen.

 

[gamestalker]

Alrighty then H&H, why not just skip all the pleasantries, and just straight up call me a liar. I can't believe they would let someone with such weak people skill act as a Moderator here at THR. You called me a liar on this open forum H&H, all based on your personal opinion. It did happen, and I'll continue to proclaim such.

I've written about this particular kill multiple times here at THR over the last 4 or 5 years, not a single detail has ever changed.

I'm putting my wife on here to attest to this event.

I am Michael's wife, I was there, and that bullet did go all the way up the spine and stopped just at the base of the neck, intact. Denise

She already posted before I could state the following, DO NOT call my wife a liar.

GS

 

[ZeroJunk]

It is possible that it could have gotten in to the foramen itself and bounced all the way up through there, or just slid by knocking off a few processes.
I shot one broadside upgrade quite a bit , caught the top of the lung, hit the spine, and paralyzed the animal. There was no exit wound. So, I suspect it was not the same as laying a row of vertebrae side by side and trying to shoot through them.

 

[Sav .250]

What ever you decide on, you better get some range time in. Your weapon may not like the ammo type you select.

Plus, see how it does at all the possible yardage you referred too. J s/n.

 

[X-Rap]

That is a fantastic endorsement of the Speer Bullet, I would not be surprised to hear that they would want a testimonial from you on that excellent performance although it would seem that such a feat would almost require additional mechanical propulsion of some sort.
Have you ever tried recreating in gel?

 

[Ex]

Wow H&H! That was a pretty aggressive statement you made considering you weren’t there and it IS only your opinion... Just saying.

JMHO but since this IS The High Road, I think ya owe Gamestalker an apology on this one.

 

[H&Hhunter]

Alrighty then H&H, why not just skip all the pleasantries, and just straight up call me a liar. I can't believe they would let someone with such weak people skill act as a Moderator here at THR. You called me a liar on this open forum H&H, all based on your personal opinion. It did happen, and I'll continue to proclaim such.

I've written about this particular kill multiple times here at THR over the last 4 or 5 years, not a single detail has ever changed.

I'm putting my wife on here to attest to this event.

I am Michael's wife, I was there, and that bullet did go all the way up the spine and stopped just at the base of the neck, intact. Denise

She already posted before I could state the following, DO NOT call my wife a liar.

GS

Tell you what I'll do Game Stalker. I'll find you 17 to 18 DRY not wet, dry, elk sized vertebrae. We will fill the holes where the spinal cord used to run with pork fat, which should be a good representative spinal cord type replacement. We will glue them all together and make sure they have the approximate same curvature as they would in the animal.

If you can get a 130 gr Speer Hot Core .270 diameter bullet @somewhere near 3000 FPS to penetrate more than 2 or 3 much less 17 or 18 in a straight line. I will publicly apologize to you.

 

[zb338]

A good friend of mine has shot both deer and moose with
sierra game kings. No problem. Using .300 Win Mag. 180
grain bullets.

Zeke

 

[X-Rap]

The claim of miraculous penetration is not as disturbing to me as the shot itself. I could accept putting one up the rear like that if the animal was already hit and needed put down and only offered that shot.
Can't imagine a worse place to risk either maiming or wasting a lot of prime meat.

 

[gamestalker]

In all honesty, this hunt was a near disaster. When we both spotted our bulls he, my hunting buddy, was able to get a clean broadside shot, in and out, Speer Hot Core, 30-06. I wasn't so fortunate, as I was trying get a shot, I was completely and totally consumed by adrenaline, and was walking on bowling ball sized boulders. I slipped and dropped my rifle on the rocks, it landed on the scope, bent the front objective bell. When I got up, I grabbed my rifle, took aim for the back of the head, but unintentionally ran the bullet up the spine. I later confirmed that the scope got jacked up when I dropped it, thus the extremely low point of impact.

H&H, I wouldn't hesitate to try and recreate that shot. I have every confidence in the Hot Core and was sold on it by it's spectacular performance on that elk hunt in 1989.

GS

 

[H&Hhunter]

H&H, I wouldn't hesitate to try and recreate that shot. I have every confidence in the Hot Core and was sold on it by it's spectacular performance on that elk hunt in 1989.

GS

Spectacular performance is an understatement. Please do not hesitate to try and recreate that shot I'll do the same and we will compare results.

Please film and post here.

 

[gamestalker]

Well you'll have to accept pictures sent USPS, I have no clue how to post pics, as this is something Frank is currently trying to teach me, as well as a host of others.

I once tried with a pig spine, but I couldn't get the bullet to stay in the path of the spine. I could only get the bullet to impact 6 or 7 blades before it veered off path. I guess you need all that flesh to provide some sort of stabilizing mechanism?

GS

 

[ZeroJunk]

impact 6 or 7 blades

If you are talking about knocking off the processes that is not what most of us are picturing I don't think.

 

[sage5907]

gamestalker, I believe your account about the Speer 270 HotCor bullet. I have shot a lot of animals with the 130 grain in the 270 Winchester and never had one fail to perform. I also believe they are one of the best big game bullet ever manufactured and I wouldn't feel handicapped with using them on game up through the size of elk. When H&Hhunter said your shot was physically impossible he doesn't realize how well those bullets hold together and has probably never used one of them. Trying to explain why the bullet did what it did is like trying to explain why someone won the lottery. I have never felt that your postings were anything but truthful and I look forward to reading your postings.

 

[gamestalker]

Thank you sage5907, I appreciate that.

But I also regret that this thread has been hi jacket by an unnecessary and inappropriate argument about whether or not, this did, or did not happen. My primary, and initial intent was to provide good sound advice to the OP, based on my personal experiences with that bullet. I can't explain how, or why it held together and managed to penetrate so effectively. It mushroomed all the way to the heel of the bullet, yet the pedals remained attached to the jacket, with very minimal shedding, under 10% weight loss, and in my old dilapidated notes I wrote 93% weight retention !!

Since that hunt, I have experienced nothing but stellar penetration, weight retention, and accuracy with the Hot Core, time and time again. Additionally, all those who have used this bullet and that I reload for in .243 win, 6mm rem, .270 win, 7mm RM, and 300 WM, all have had nothing short of flawless results on game with the Hot Core. Are there other bullets of like or similar quality? Certainly, but we all find some niche in this hobby that has basis for us to stick to such, mine is the Hot Core. Speer received my story many years ago, as I couldn't help but inform them of this amazing event.

At this point, I simply want to apologize to the OP. He asked for advice, but instead he got a bunch of immature and inappropriate behavior that took his thread way off topic, some of which I'm responsible for.

GS