Hkmp5sd
Member
If memory serves me correctly, there are 2 transferrable 93R's in the US, generally listing for $100,000 and there are no transferrable Glock 18s (only dealer samples).
How do you legally get a machine gun?
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ryanl
Member
Setting up a living trust or a corporation is the way to go in my opinion. If you go the CLEO route, you are the only person allowed to have access or be in possesion of that weapon at anytime. The other way the trust or corporation actually owns the weapon, and any officers of said corporation or
people named in the trust may be in possesion or have access to the weapon.
I have also heard that turn around on the form 4 is faster at the ATF then a private citizen applying. And you can set up a living trust for $50 or less on your home computer. Try Quicken WillMaker Plus. This is the route im gonna go for some of the very reasons i have stated.
Ryan
people named in the trust may be in possesion or have access to the weapon.
I have also heard that turn around on the form 4 is faster at the ATF then a private citizen applying. And you can set up a living trust for $50 or less on your home computer. Try Quicken WillMaker Plus. This is the route im gonna go for some of the very reasons i have stated.
Ryan
GuyWithQuestions
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If you're really in a situation where you reasonably believe that deadly force is needed to stop or prevent imminent danger of death or grave bodily harm, would being prosecuted or sued really be something that you'd be worrying about, or would you mostly be concerned about staying alive?
Don't they say that you shouldn't use any type of firearm in self-defense unless it's a situation that you wouldn't mind going to court over? Attorneys are expensive if you just shot someone and you're always in danger of severe criminal convictions/getting sued hundreds of thousands of dollars for wrongful death, no matter how justified the shooting was. Isn't that how it works anyway? If you are really in danger of death or grave bodily harm, wouldn't going to jail be the last thing that crosses your mind? If you have the choice between being dead/being in a wheel chair for the rest of your life vs going to jail/being sued, which one should you prefer? Shouldn't the use of any type of firearm, regardless if it's a machine gun or .22 revolver, be taken seriously?
Bubbles
Member
Same for Virginia. Not only that, but if you use a gun in a self-defense shooting there's a good chance the police will take it for evidence. Even if it's eventually returned, I'd rather they take an easily-replaced pistol into the evidence lockers than one of my high-$$$ NFA toys.
Gunnerpalace
Member
Guy, you are right there are people on this forum who load silvertip ammo just because they think it will sound better to the jury, You do what you have to stay alive the answer "sorry mr mugger don't Pwn me today I am carrying the wrong ammo I might get sued" wont stop the attack. The saying "better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6" is one I agree with.
There are transferable FA glocks available but there are supposedly less than 10 of them and they are going for over $90,000.00.
There are transferable FA glocks available but there are supposedly less than 10 of them and they are going for over $90,000.00.
Valkman
Member
It's not hard to get one - the wierdest part was giving the seller a check and he takes that and the gun with him! You cannot posses it until it's tranferred so he keeps all of it until the ATF gives the OK. Took about 4 months for the ATF approval in my case.
They make cool leather carry set-ups for the Uzi but I'd never use it for SD just because if they seize it that's a $7k gun gone!
They make cool leather carry set-ups for the Uzi but I'd never use it for SD just because if they seize it that's a $7k gun gone!
sacp81170a
Member
One great big argument against using FA for CCW: every bullet is a potential lawsuit. If you hit the BG with the first two rounds and crank off 2 more before you can get off the trigger, where are those 2 useless (for the immediate purpose of stopping the BG from doing whatever he was doing that made you shoot him) rounds now headed? Hopefully not for the grandma with her granddaughter in a stroller down the street.
'Nuff said.
'Nuff said.
GuyWithQuestions
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Hmmm, so from all of this, I take it that if I apply for one I shouldn't put down "Self-defense" or "protect myself from immediate death (or grave bodily harm)" as the reason? "Collecting rare and exotic firearms" would be more appropriate?
mljdeckard
Member
Sure, all weapons SHOULD be treated equally for life and death situations. This absolutely does not mean they WILL be. Remember, a prosecutor, judge, and jury all have absolute immunity for trying and convicting you of anything they want to. If you cross a line which appalls the public, and makes a prosecutor worry about his job, he will re-think what is and is not appropriate for self-defense.
Yes, in any defensive situation, you must be prepared to reap the legal whirlwind. Using an automatic weapon greatly multiplies the chances you will be prosecuted and sued.
Yes, in any defensive situation, you must be prepared to reap the legal whirlwind. Using an automatic weapon greatly multiplies the chances you will be prosecuted and sued.
ctdonath
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C96
Member
If I read the original post correctly he asked BOTH about how to get one AND about using it for self defense.
DoubleTapDrew
Member
Clean background, find a gun you want, buy it, fill out paperwork, get photos and fingerprints and CLEO signature, send it with $200, wait, go get your toy.
I wouldn't recommend using it for self defense unless it's the only gun you have accessible or suitable at that particular moment (ie don't make it your "go-to" gun). You may not ever get it back, and the prosecutors will do their best to paint you as a Rambo type of person. Using a NFA weapon will make that job a lot easier.
I wouldn't recommend using it for self defense unless it's the only gun you have accessible or suitable at that particular moment (ie don't make it your "go-to" gun). You may not ever get it back, and the prosecutors will do their best to paint you as a Rambo type of person. Using a NFA weapon will make that job a lot easier.
1KPerDay
Member
I would never use an NFA weapon for self defense unless it were the last option available to me. And no, I wouldn't put "self defense" as the reason you want one. Buy a glock 19 and a mossberg 590. 
THE MACHINIST
Member
finger prints-recent photo-chief of police or sheriff signature-6 months of waiting-good luck
If you are "at college with roomates" you will have to take steps to make sure only you have access to the full auto firearm. A safe, something like that, which would be more difficult in temporary college housing. You would have to trust our roomates as well.
Check with Utah on whether they limit your CCW to handguns or forbid NFA weapons for CCW.
I wouldn't carry it for self-defense-they are generally less suited for CCW than a regular pistol. And very expensive. And with possible consequences if you do use it. If you use it in a "clean" self defense shooting, maybe you are fine, but many self defense shootings are murky.
And honestly, if you are a college student, I think there are better ways to spend your firearms money.
Check with Utah on whether they limit your CCW to handguns or forbid NFA weapons for CCW.
I wouldn't carry it for self-defense-they are generally less suited for CCW than a regular pistol. And very expensive. And with possible consequences if you do use it. If you use it in a "clean" self defense shooting, maybe you are fine, but many self defense shootings are murky.
And honestly, if you are a college student, I think there are better ways to spend your firearms money.
I have fired a many MG's in my time and A MG would definatly not be my first choice for a CCW.
http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&VideoID=17846230
Besides carrying around a $4K Mac 10/11. It being compact and holding 32rnds of 9mm sounds great but the cyclic rate is so high that the last round will exit the gun before the first shell hits the ground. And controlability is definatly not their with one hand at full auto. Plus like others said if you actually did have to use it a court of law would definatly not be pleased. Also your state may have a law preventing a MG as a CCW.
As others have stated MG's are more cool collectors items due to the cost and responsability associated with them.
I think you would open your self up to some harassment from local LE if they were to discover you were carrying a MG as a CCW or even an EVIL Semi MAC.
http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&VideoID=17846230
Besides carrying around a $4K Mac 10/11. It being compact and holding 32rnds of 9mm sounds great but the cyclic rate is so high that the last round will exit the gun before the first shell hits the ground. And controlability is definatly not their with one hand at full auto. Plus like others said if you actually did have to use it a court of law would definatly not be pleased. Also your state may have a law preventing a MG as a CCW.
As others have stated MG's are more cool collectors items due to the cost and responsability associated with them.
I think you would open your self up to some harassment from local LE if they were to discover you were carrying a MG as a CCW or even an EVIL Semi MAC.
ctdonath
Member
Practical CCW dictates severe limitations on size and shape, which in turn dictate limitations on operation and capacity. Practical FA dictates seriously high capacity (30rnds min, 100 preferred, multiple tall mags) and size/shape (shoulder stock) which go well beyond practicalities of CCW.
Glocks with "da switch" are possible (922(o) aside), and options are always nice, but as Pnutz notes the cyclic rate is so high and controllability iffy enough that it's kinda pointless.
Given practical limitations, practice will provide you with a high enough "cyclic rate" with a semi as to make FA kinda pointless (even among rare events, 'tis rare to need to clear a room that fast).
If things warrant FA CCW, you need a different line of work or lifestyle.
Glocks with "da switch" are possible (922(o) aside), and options are always nice, but as Pnutz notes the cyclic rate is so high and controllability iffy enough that it's kinda pointless.
Given practical limitations, practice will provide you with a high enough "cyclic rate" with a semi as to make FA kinda pointless (even among rare events, 'tis rare to need to clear a room that fast).
If things warrant FA CCW, you need a different line of work or lifestyle.
I was told at a gun shop recently that the owner carries a full auto mac-11 as his CCW. I don't think the guy was pulling my leg, so I'm guessing you could do that here in Utah. Seems like a pretty bad idea to me, for the reasons other people have mentioned...
You're in college, living with roommates, but are ready to buy a $5000+ gun? I didn't feel comfortable having guns at all until I moved into my own place, let alone a full-auto weapon that's worth more than most college kids' cars. There are a lot of issues with roommates, you've got to not only trust them, but also everybody else they might have over. Also, if there was some trouble at your place, and the cops came, you better be sure that no one has any drugs around, a little pot or something and a full auto weapon found in the same place would be a great way to get on the evening news. Even now that I'm out of school and making decent money, there are a lot of things I could think to do with that kind of money before I'd buy a novelty item like a MG. But hey, if you've got the disposable income, more power to ya.
You're in college, living with roommates, but are ready to buy a $5000+ gun? I didn't feel comfortable having guns at all until I moved into my own place, let alone a full-auto weapon that's worth more than most college kids' cars. There are a lot of issues with roommates, you've got to not only trust them, but also everybody else they might have over. Also, if there was some trouble at your place, and the cops came, you better be sure that no one has any drugs around, a little pot or something and a full auto weapon found in the same place would be a great way to get on the evening news. Even now that I'm out of school and making decent money, there are a lot of things I could think to do with that kind of money before I'd buy a novelty item like a MG. But hey, if you've got the disposable income, more power to ya.
30 cal slob
Member
UTdave said:
what a piece of stamp-metal junk. out of the box it's an unreliable ammo hose. with aftermarket accessories you can ratchet up or ratchet down the cyclic rate (mine was clocked at 1,464 RPM, lol). even so, an m11/9 wouldn't be me first choice of ccw. an uzi is a step up accuracywise, and tops for an smg would be a closed-bolt weapon like the MP5.
then again, if i really had my druthers, i'd be toting an M4gery in .223 or something like an HK33k.
1KPerDay
Member
I wonder what my M11/9 runs at... at least 1200 I'd guess. That's what makes it fun.
TexasRifleman
Moderator Emeritus
Everyone throws this out like it's easy to do.
This is very rare in most states and hardly done anymore. Most states require a full course at a LE Academy.
The good old days of Bubba the Sheriff deputizing his buddies are over.
GuyWithQuestions
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According to City Crime Rankings: Crime in Metropolitan America, the area that I live in was ranked the safest metropolitan area for 2007 in the U.S.A., the Logan region of Utah-Idaho. Detroit-Livonia-Dearborn region of Michigan ranked the most dangerous metropolitan area. The safest city was Mission Viejo, California, and the most dangerous city was Detroit, Michigan. I guess that I could move to Mission Viejo to be a little safer, but I'm not sure if that'll do much. Often people say that people shouldn't own handguns because, "Are you so scared you need a gun?" But, people believe in a right to self-defense as a moral principle even if they aren't so worried and you can never be too safe. Stuff happens no matter how safe the neighborhood. I mean, I had that post about that one shoplifter from Wal-Mart that I saw and that was in this region. I think there may have been a murder years ago here (safest metropolitan area was for 2007, probably not for the year there was a murder), and so you always need to be prepared, and more important the moral principle that we should be allowed to protect ourselves.
So if machine guns aren't useful practicality wise, why does the military and some law enforcement agencies have them? I also heard that there was a study that further away, semi-auto's are more accurate, but up close a fully-automatic is more likely to hit its target and in a lot less time?
woodybrighton
member
I have carried an mp5k in a shoulder holster it was cool for about an hour but I'm easily impressed not really concealable if your going to do anything other than motor patrols or close target recce's etc i.e if you plan on having a life.
a pistol found by somebody probably won't freak people out if you have a ccw a mp5k will
berrata 93 is a fun gun but $$$$ counts it out
if you ever had to use it machine gun toting gun nut would be the headlines would be the least of your worries
not really concealable if your going to do anything other than motor patrols or close target recce's etc i.e if you plan on having a life.a pistol found by somebody probably won't freak people out if you have a ccw a mp5k will
berrata 93 is a fun gun but $$$$ counts it out
if you ever had to use it machine gun toting gun nut would be the headlines would be the least of your worries
The practicality role MGs play in a Military and LE enviroment are different than that of a single person needing self defense in public. Military and LE operate in teams. A MG does play a role in a team / squad enviroment, fire suppresson and intimidation. While typically another member is flanking them with a semi or bolt action.
If you see a single police officer he is most likely carrying just a pistol, with a rifle in the car and maybe an SMG in the trunk.
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