How do you see yourself employing a rifle?

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EDC (Every Day Carry) of a long gun will cause more of what kind of problems than it solves?

I've got a problem with leadfoot when I drive. As a result, I get pulled over often. I've usually got at least one loaded long gun in the vehicle(legal in Georgia). It's caused a problem exactly one time(if you consider a LEO who is supposedly an adult having a hissy fit a problem). In some cases the LEO's took possession of the weapons, didn't know how to clear them, and covered me with the muzzles while waving them around. I considered this to be a problem but I don't think that's the type you meant. I will give the cop having a hissy fit about my AR15 credit for that though, he didn't sweep me with the muzzle. I've been stopped with a dozen or more long guns in the vehicle. More than once. In every case, the result was either gabbing about guns for a half hour on the shoulder of the road or heading to a cafe for an extended conversation over coffee. And nothing more was said about the traffic violation.

Actually, he was amusing in a way. (Do you ALWAYS carry a gun on your right hip??!!!...Only when I leave the house, Officer.) Then he notices the Springfield 1911 is cocked and locked and darn near went into cardiac arrest. His partner backed me up when I told that the gun was designed to be carried that way. Didn't say another word the rest of the stop. Guy needs to move to Massachusetts, Illinois, or California...working as a police officer in Georgia is giving him ulcers. Now even this officer, after his rant about concealed carry, and radioing all the serial numbers to check for stolen guns forgot about the traffic violation. Right, officer, RN's are known for dabbling in theft and burglary as hobbies...need to keep a close eye on them. The way he was running around trying to find something serious to arrest me for was amusing. The illegal U-turn violation apparently was not good enough.

I'm not saying that in some states EDC might cause more problems than it solves. But I've been carrying loaded long guns in my vehicle here in Georgia since 1970 and have been stopped numerous times with them in the vehicle. The only problems have been with officers having poor muzzle control and not knowing how to properly clear that particular weapon, and once with an officer who disapproves of current Georgia law-it wasn't a case of him being ignorant of the pertinent laws-he would have arrested me had he been ignorant of the law-he didn't like the laws.
 
I don’t ever see myself employing rifle….but that doesn’t mean than I won’t take a class and buy some ninja mag carriers and optics to go with it.

I basically thought it was cool, could afford it (at the time), and thought that I might not get the chance to buy one in the future. I did have the idea in the back of my head that if things ever went really, really wrong in our country a good rifle would be good insurance.

I do think the OP raises a good point in terms of using those rifle dollars towards training with a more practical firearm.

The OP also makes an interesting point about the “american-ness” of owning a battle rifle. My Grandfather used to say that every American man should know how to shoot a rifle. He was never in the military, but those were his feelings. He also didn’t say that every American man should know how to shoot a gun, or should even own a gun. He wanted men to know how to shoot a rifle.

Look at the popularity of Apple seed shoots. Maybe this "american-ness" of owning a rifle is a pretty common feeling.
 
My oldest who while I love dearly never seemed to be able to shoot as well as I would have liked now wears an Expert badge on his uniform. So yes I think there is an American-ness to shooting, especially a rifle. America has always fielded top riflemen and I hope it continues.
I think most would say it is easier to learn as well as train someone on a rifle as compared to a handgun though likely not the shotgun except for that some would have difficulty managing the recoil of some.
 
all i know is hopefully you would have earplugs :p
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Carbines aren't significantly louder than short-barreled handguns or defensive shotguns, and may be less loud depending on the calibers you are comparing.

I may have posted this upthread (I don't recall), but here it is again if I did:

http://www.freehearingtest.com/hia_gunfirenoise.shtml

12-gauge, 18" barrel, 161.50dB
.223, 55gr, 18" barrel, 155.5dB
9mm pistol, 159.8 dB
.45 ACP pistol, 157.0 dB
.357 Magnum revolver, 164.3 dB

Not sure if these figures are straight dB or dBA, but there is a lot more correlation with barrel length than with caliber (with the exception of .357, which probably makes a lot of additional noise from the barrel-cylinder gap). A 16" .223 would be a little louder, but probably still not as loud as the 12-gauge.

There is undoubtedly a difference in the sound spectrum (with shotguns and rifles being "boomier" than pistols, i.e. more bass) but the actual volume levels are comparable.

More calibers at the link, FWIW.
 
I carry my M&P 15 as a bail agent in NC when I pick up certain individuals. At first police looked at me a little funny, but it is legal so I didn't get anything other than a ID check. Now LE think that my usage of the carbine is pretty smart and they wish they had the gear that I do. The presence of a rifle makes a potentially violent felon jump on the ground faster than gravity can carry him. Now that I broke this ground in E. North Carolina I have many of my coworkers carrying long guns as well with excellent effect. People are expecting several guys in throwback's and maybe a vest but now they get picked up by bondsmen in full body armor with the latest tactical gear. This has changed the game for us and defendants don't want to run or fight with us.
 
Glock22ongrip "get off the ice brah";) Sure you have never heard that before.

Glade to see the police working hand in hand with you guys.
 
Mossberg 500 for HD - I live in a small but densely populated town and worry about throwing .223 rounds around - not that you don't have to be careful as well with shotgun or pistol ammo, but when you live in the burbs the rifle round is just scary.
 
I am currently military. I was out for 15 years, and I kept rifles around, and encouraged others to do the same.

My 870 is my primary. My wife's primary (and my backup) is an M-1 carbine.

For ALL threats I am likely to encounter, a pistol is inadequate. This is why I keep long guns in my home and vehicle. (Except, ironically enough, when I am on a military post.)

My hometown has a city statute requiring every household to have a firearm. No one worried when I carried a rifle down the street. Or had a sidearm while riding a horse. I may eventually move back. This should be the norm, not the exception.

The rifle should be your primary weapon. Any plan which involves you fighting your way out of a bad situation with your pistol should lead you to a rifle. ARs would fit this role well, as would my heirloom M-1 Carbine, but at the same time, I know sooner or later I will have a standoff with a cop who may not understand that it is perfectly legal for me to keep such a rifle behind the seat of my truck, and will confiscate it. When this happens, I will weep a whole lot less over an SKS that I can replace at the next pawn shop for about $150. It's also the rifle I can knock around in my truck, and not worry about if it will function, or worry about the appearance.
 
What was the question again ? ....

I keep an AR15 in order to shoot things. Hopefully it won't be people.

Never been to a carbine class , unless you count basic training and MP school.
 
Now why is the prospect of a meaningful relationship with a bevy of swimsuit models an adolescent fantasy? I'm 39 and find the prospect rather intriguing....

All kidding aside, I agree that training never takes the place of high speed doo dads. However, I disagree wholeheartedly with the attitude that a pistol is simply a tool for you to fight your way to the rifle you left elsewhere.

Your battlespace dictates your weapon.

The pistol can be quite competently employed as your primary weapon with satisfactory results. Hell, a dinner fork could work just fine given the right conditions - though I shudder to think of having things be THAT bad.

That said, if a badguy has a pistol, I would prefer to engage with a rifle. If he has a rifle, I'd like to call artillery. Failing that I'd like to have a rifle and a friend or two with theirs.:)

I choose the M4/AR platform over a shotgun for a number of reasons: lightweight, ergonomic design, light recoil for accurate followup shots, ammo amount, and modularity - add/subtract stuff for the job at hand.

As I said, cool doo dads are no substitute for training. Take a class and you will quickly discover what works for you and what doesn't. Don't hang a ton of crap off the front end of your idiot stick. You'll probably regret it - though there are the exceptions. I personally keep it to a tapeswitch activated light and my Aimpoint 4 MOA optic. I don't even use a VFG (unless someone can convince me why I should / what the benefit of one is).
 
All present company excluded, but I am convinced that the vast majority of people buying ar-15s do so because they see the guns as toys.

I am personally aware of a dozen or so fellows who have ar-15s. They love to take them out of their closets to show them to their buddies/friends/family when they want to make an impression.

Occasionally, they will use them to shoot some bottles or paper but usually, about every four or five months, they buy a box of ammo from Walmart and go dump a magazine or two into a dirt berm or a wrecked car.

Try to get them to go to an appleseed shoot, practical rifle match or a 3-gun competition. Not a chance. Most of these guys can't reliable field strip their weapons and are uninterested at best in the NRA or civil liberties.

If guns were outlawed tomorrow they would turn them right on in and buy themselves some other neat toy.

The same thing happens with just about every tool. I know guys with nice hunting rifles who've never hunted anything. I bet most of you guys know someone who has a garage chocked full of power tools that have never even been plugged in, let alone used.

/not a hater, I own two ar-15s
//bought them used both with less than 500 rounds fired (but not so pristine now).
///got a real nice husqvarna chainsaw the same way.
 
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You know a dozen people like that?

Odd.

I know a number of fools in the world of firearm enthusiasm, but very very few who are ambivalent about their rights. It may depend on where you are from, I guess.

Do you live in one of the more restrictive states?
 
I am the opposite of the stereotypes mentioned. When I take one of my black rifles out to shoot, I try to be as discreet as I can. I don't tell most people about them, as I don't want the general public to know what I own, or to make assumptions (as some previous posters obviously do) about me based on what I prefer to own.
How do I see myself employing one? Well, sometimes I just sit and admire it's beauty. Some people love fast cars, Harleys, or whatnot - I like gas-operated firearms. I think they are mechanically fascinating, and while I shoot them fairly regularly, that is not only reason I own them.

All these assumptions about HD, SD, and SHTF.......do I really have to have a nasty scenario as justification for owning a rifle? Maybe some of us just appreciate them as...........dare I say......art?
 
That could be considered one of the side benefits of the huge popularity of the AR platform - the more mainstream it becomes, the more people will be affected by, and resistant to, pending legislation.

I'm afraid I have to somewhat agree with Albatross, though. While I would fight to the bitter end for what's left of my 2nd Amendment rights, it amazes me how many people will not, and in fact think that an "assault weapons ban" is no big deal, and maybe even a good thing.
 
This has changed the game for us and defendants don't want to run or fight with us.
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Please keep in mind what Coronach, a working cop, had to say about felons:

My street experience echoes what others have said, and what Heinlein wrote about worker bugs and warrior bugs in Starship Troopers; only 1 in 100 is a warrior, but he makes up for the other 99.
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Friend, not all of them are going to spread out if you come with an Abrams tank. Tactical gear, and better weapons are, at best, only going to act as a filter to separate out the ones who only thought they wanted to fight...from the ones who will fight anyone, anywhere, at anytime.

I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm simply pointing out the danger of mindset-of assuming that because most defendants 'don't want to run or fight with us' that this means that all will feel that way. If you fall into the habit of believing that all will react in that manner, you'll be slow in reaction to the one in a hundred or one in a thousand who does not cave in just because he's outmanned, outgunned, and out equipped. He might be a Sioux, at least in his mindset,"Hoka, this is a good day to die!"

As I posted earlier, I've known a few such as this and, granted, most of them are dead now but there are more out there that I've never met. I guarantee you there are men out there who will fight if you try to apprehend them with a Regimental Combat Team. Luckily, in my experience, most aren't bad guys.
 
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I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm simply pointing out the danger of mindset-of assuming that because most defendants 'don't want to run or fight with us' that this means that all will feel that way. If you fall into the habit of believing that all will react in that manner, you'll be slow in reaction to the one in a hundred or one in a thousand who does not cave in just because he's outmanned, outgunned, and out equipped. He might be a Sioux, at least in his mindset,"Hoka, this is a good day to die!"
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Platt/Matix were a cautionary example in this regard, IMO. I suspect the FBI did the stop the way they did because they were honestly expecting the outnumbered bad guys to come out of the car with their hands up, and when they didn't, things went all to heck.
 
Any advantage to using the VFG?
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For an AR, possibly. A vertical hand position is probably a little better ergonomically, and a little better for retention purposes.

For an AK, a VFG gets in the way of magazine changes, so IMO for that platform its drawbacks exceed its benefits.
 
to the OP

how many folks have an AR decked out like they are going to Bagdad but don't even have a light on their shotgun, or any training with any of there guns.
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It's not rocket science. It doesn't matter if you have a singleshot .410 or a decked out AK that would make any russian proud. The basic functions are still similar enough that most gun owners could figure it out. It would be hard to imagine vast amounts of "gun owners" who don't know things like: what size bullets do I need, how do I load a bullet, which end do I point toward the bad guy.

Same thing with home defense. A little common sense will go along way. Monitored home alarm systems are great. Sure, a gang of ninjas might get past the alarm system, but your average dope head probably won't get past the sign in the front yard or will probably set it off. I even get a break on my insurance for having it. I don't need tactical training to know to lock doors and windows and arm the alarm. My lack of training tells me to get as far away from the situation as I can, or barricade my self in for a last stand.

How do I see my self employing a rifle?
I see my alarm going off. Me grabbing my gun and rushing to the stairs. Wife grabs the kids and bunkers in. My stairs make a 90 degree turn about mid way up. If you start up my stairs with the alarm blaring and haven't identified yourself, or I don't immediately recognize you; then I am going to pull the trigger till it says click. Repeat with new magazine if necessary. Then hold my position until help arrives.



Albatross,

I think your half right. Yes it's a neat toy and looks cool, but don't let that hide the fact that we all know deep down exactly what it really is....a human killing machine:evil:
 
"How do you see yourself employing a rifle?"

From the shoulder. :neener:

But to answer "for real," in the scenarios where shotguns have traditionally been deployed, I deploy/plan on deploying a rifle. Or, I just grab the shotty, understanding its limitations.
 
It's not rocket science. It doesn't matter if you have a singleshot .410 or a decked out AK that would make any russian proud. The basic functions are still similar enough that most gun owners could figure it out. It would be hard to imagine vast amounts of "gun owners" who don't know things like: what size bullets do I need, how do I load a bullet, which end do I point toward the bad guy.
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It's not rocket science, but the average gun owner, solder or police officer can't be expected to pick up an unfamiliar weapon and manipulate it under stress. You have to train and train a lot if you expect to efficiently manipulate a weapon under stress. All you have to do is go down to your local PD's long gun qualification and watch how most of them fumble around with the 970 or AR they only touch when they put it in and out of the rack in the squad car. Or go into any Army or Marine unit and watch what happens when you give someone who doesn't normally carry one, the M240 and see what happens. Everyone gets familiarization training, but those skills are perishable.

There is a big difference between a .410 and an AK. While the average gun owner can probably figure it out, without training you can't expect him to manipulate it well enough to fight.
 
Hopefully no one will have to shoot an enemy soldier!

Especially on American Soil, but so be it if required. A World War is a dreaded scenario, but a bullet in the brain stops all threats. I'm not a war monger, but damned if I will let any foreign force savage my loved ones. This is NOT 1939 Poland! If we've learned anything from history, this is 2008 America. Soldiers invading a country are generally brutal and sexually-abusive of women. Japanese soldiers during World War II were not nice toward American Nurses. Could America be invaded? Could our women be in peril of vile deeds? cliffy, not on my watch
 
I really doubt that any nation is out to invade us. Iirc, the last time that happened it was in 1942 and in that case it was the Japanese landing on the outermost sets of the Aleutian islands. So, when it come to that scenario I'm not overly worried.

Personally, I don't have anything in the way of rifles which would be considered tacticool or EBR by any means. I think my youngest is a Marlin 60 that's an early '70s production and the youngest one in a respectable caliber is my Yugo M-48. Really, I'm familar with my old boltie war horses to use them maybe in some sort of SHTF or Katrina style when I know I could grab some distance between me and whatever threat it is. However, for day to day I'm more than happy to use my shotguns because I guess just simply, they work.
When it comes to neither of these situations, the rifles just go back to their intended purpose of collector pieces/fun plinkers/and general purpose tools for when I go wander about in the wilderness and I don't feel like being acquainted with the local wildlife from the inside out ;)

And just to throw all the 'kids these days are all for nothing but tacticool' crowd off:
I'm at a ripe old age of 19
 
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