How do you work a load from scratch?

[levsmith]

I've been reloading for about a year now and was just curious. If you had a bullet and powder mix that you couldn't find load info on and you wanted to work one yourself, how would you go about it?

For instance, I have 147 grain 9mm bullets and want to use power pistol. Neither of my books has load info for that combination. I resorted to looking it up online but how about those who don't have that luxury.

I've checked the fps with the chronograph and it is right around the same as what the other loads are in my book, but fps doesn't directly relate to the pressure does it? Just curious how you experts do it and how you know its a safe load if you have no way of checking pressure.

 

[NWcityguy2]

Download the Alliant 2004 manual, it has load data for that load.

http://glarp.atk.com/2004/2004Catalogs/2004AlliantPowderSM.pdf

 

[jim243]

I have been reloading for 7 years and I would not call myself an expert.

First step is to check with the bullet mfg for any load data they have, next is to check with the powder mfg for their load data for that bullet or a simular one that fits exactly the bullet you want to use, profile. (different bullet mfg but same weight and profile)

Once I have picked a combination of powder, OAL, and bullet weight, I start mid range between Min load to Max load and go up 0.20 (2/10) of a grain to Max load for my load testing, about 10 rounds each step.

I have used "Power Pistol" and find it a bit too hot for my loads a better and safer choice (in my opinion) would be Win-231 or H-38 powder (faster powder & less pressure). Also I believe more published data for these powders.

On each firing, I check each case for pressure signs and stop where the action of the pistol works best and the case is ejected 7 to 10 feet away. Not very scientific but 3-4 feet to light a load and 15 feet too hot a load.

Like I said not very scientific. (but it does not beat the hell out of the pistol)
Jim

 

[FROGO207]

Back before there were a lot of resources available my grandfather and uncles would get paper sacks of surplus propellant from the feed store. All they ever knew was it was for "rifle" or "pistol"(read slow or fast burn rate). They would start with a really small amount and add a bit each successive round. There was a lot of pounding bullets out of the bore at first each time. When a good load was arrived at using this working up they would go back to the store and get some more propellant out of the same container if it was still there. If not they would wait until they ran out and repeat the workup drill.

This is the way I do it.
Nowadays you have good choices of canister grade data and if no data is available and Find a round with the approximate same internal volume and weight projectile. Not even necessarily in the same caliber and go 5% below the starting load and try that. If you have data above and below your weight in the same caliber using the same propellant use the heavier bullet info and work up as usual until you get an accurate load. A way to measure the velocity is important also. If the fired case sticks or shows other signs of overpressure stop there and try another propellant as there probably was a reason that the data was missing in the first place.

Most propellant manufacturers will reply to an email with a good load or reasons why not to use your particular combo for safety reasons. Or you could spring for a copy of Quickload and use your computer to simulate the approximate pressures and velocities of your combo without using components first to get you into the safe zone before becoming unsafe with hands on experimentation. As always stay safe and YMMV.
This is advice from my 40+ years of safely reloading and your experiences may NOT be the same so only venture off the published data when you feel your oats, ----at your own risk of failure.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

First off, if your manuals don't have load data for a bullet/powder combination there's usually a very good reason. (unless the manual was printed before the powder was available) When there is no data for a combination it's usually because it's either not safe or the performance was so poor they don't recommend it.

If it's because your manual was printed before the powder was available you might need a new manual. Other than that you can look for data with a different weight bullet and that powder and extrapolate the starting load from that data.

 

[Slamfire]

When there is no data for a combination it's usually because it's either not safe or the performance was so poor they don't recommend it.

Absolutely true.

The measuring capability of today's equipment is beyond the imagination of those in the copper crusher days. They can see everything related to primers and pressure curves displayed real time.

If you stay on the forums long enough you will see people recommending loads with powders that the manufacturer does not recommend.

Of particular note is the use of Blue Dot in .223 cartridges. I called Alliant, they don't publish any data with Blue Dot and the 223. Alliant said the pressure curve was too sensitive to changes in components. Little changes in rifle, barrel, primers, cases, bullets, would create big changes in pressure.

Which is why you will read of blown rifles with charges of Blue Dot. Sometimes the owners assume it was due to a double charge, which is a could be, but it is more probable that they had a pressure spike.

 

[Magnum Shooter]

So basicly, if you can't find data for it, don't do it?

 

[Naterater]

Not in my experience! Many old military bullets don't have data for them. If they're not published, my use for them would only be for plinking rounds that run much slower than anything published around that range just to be safe. You have to work up loads SLOWLY with an acceptable powder (this is where burn rates come into play).

The biggest problem IMHO is the powder/residue left from not igniting all of the powder. These rounds without data should not be used anywhere "max loads" for what you can find. I'm not advocating going against manufactures or rules, but why waste perfectly good bullets?!

 

[NWcityguy2]

First off, if your manuals don't have load data for a bullet/powder combination there's usually a very good reason. (unless the manual was printed before the powder was available) When there is no data for a combination it's usually because it's either not safe or the performance was so poor they don't recommend it.

When talking about Alliant this mentality needs to be taken with a grain of salt (huge grain of salt). They have dropped at least half of their handgun load data in the past 10 years including all load data for certain bullets. 125gr lead bullets got the ax in 9mm as well as 6 of 9 kinds of bullets in 10mm. If you look at 2004 and now you'll find that Alliant only thinks its powder perform well behind bullets that Speer makes. My inner sceptic also thinks performance wasn't the reason the stopped publishing a Bullseye load for 230 lrn in 45acp. That load is a classic and works really well.

The only thing I truly believe them on is when they drop a load using Blue Dot.

 

[1911Tuner]

http://www.handloads.com/loaddata/d...&Weight=147&type=Handgun&Order=Powder&Source=

When dealing with a bullet from an unknown manufacturer, begin with the starting load. If that's not given, reduce the data shown by 10% and work up. Err on the side of caution. If you're punchin' paper or ringin' steel, there's no need to push the envelope.

 

[Otto]

???

125gr lead bullets got the ax in 9mm as well as 6 of 9 kinds of bullets in 10mm. My inner sceptic also thinks performance wasn't the reason the stopped publishing a Bullseye load for 230 lrn in 45acp.

They didn't stop publishing Bullseye loads for 230 lead, it's exactly the same today as it was in their 1995 manual.
And they didn't "ax" 9mm 125gr lead bullets from the current manual either...look it up using the link you posted.

 

[NWcityguy2]

2004 isn't their current load data. All that stuff went away by at least 2008. Check their website or 2010 manual and see if you can find any of those loads.

 

[Otto]

2004 isn't their current load data. All that stuff went away by at least 2008. Check their website or 2010 manual and see if you can find any of those loads.

Wrong.

Here's the current Bullseye load data for a 45acp lead bullet that you say doesn't exists.

 

[NWcityguy2]

I suppose if I told you it is 2012 and not 2004 you would tell me I am "Wrong." as well.

If you want to turn your whole world upside down click on this link...

http://www.alliantpowder.com/resources/catalog.aspx

...it will take you to the "current" Alliant load data. There you will see that most of those loads are no longer published. Just understand that I cannot be held liable if it blows your mind right out of your skull.

 

[Jeff H]

First off, if your manuals don't have load data for a bullet/powder combination there's usually a very good reason. (unless the manual was printed before the powder was available) When there is no data for a combination it's usually because it's either not safe or the performance was so poor they don't recommend it.

If it's because your manual was printed before the powder was available you might need a new manual. Other than that you can look for data with a different weight bullet and that powder and extrapolate the starting load from that data.

When I read this, I was going to comment about Alliant and their lack of recent data, but I see that NWcityguy2 has taken care of that.

 

[918v]

Knowing what I know, I would take the Power Pistol, fill the case to the base of the bullet, and use that as a starting load.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

So basicly, if you can't find data for it, don't do it?

That would be my opinion except for like I said above, the manual was written before the powder was available. (which is possible with all the new powders coming out all the time) If the powder manufacturer doesn't have data for a powder/bullet combination it's probably a good idea not to use it. (since the powder manufacturers update their load data often)

 

[Striker Fired]

I have a wildcat type caliber that there is no data for.I have Quickload,which does have it in it,so I am able to use it for all my testing. As long as a person goes through all the little settings and is accurate on measurements ,It is a good source. BUT, the published data is the best source.