How far out should a .223 be expected to shoot?

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Zeede

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Hey folks! I'm currently in my 10 day waiting period on a CS 452 FS I purchased, chambered in .22 LR. Cheap, low recoil, great iron sights, all around the perfect rifle to learn to shoot with. However, I've got two questions:

1) Even with a scope, how far out, competitively, should I expect a .22 LR to be capable of? 100 yards? 200 yards?
2) The question in my subject. What range do most .223 competitions shoot out to?

Basically I'd like to go competitive later on, but I know that I'll probably want/need a bigger cartidge for longer distance target shooting, and just wanted to know how well a .223 Remington would accomplish this.

Thanks in advance,

Cameron
 
A .22 sporter like the CZ is a great 50 yard gun. My club runs CMP rimfire sporter which is shot at 25 and 50 yards, and a local event known as 50-50 at 50 yards; there are a lot of CZs there.

High level smallbore shooting with things like Anschutz target rifles is usually at 50 and 100 yards.

The .223 in a very good AR is the standard "across the course" rifle shot at 200, 300, and 600 yards. I have pushed a rather specialzed .223 to 1000 as have others, but that is still kind of a gimmick.

Before you spend a lot more money, best to get to a NRA or CMP Highpower match and see what is going on.
 
With the .22lr about 50-100 yards depending on the gun. I be confident with my Winchester 52 to a 100 yards, though for accurate fire with my Marlin 60 half that.

.223 is a fairly capable round. With heavier bullets 600 yards is quite obtainable. Longest I shot them at is 300 yards though with no problems at all with range or accuracy.
 
Jim knows what he's talking about. The .223 is a fine round capable of enviable accuracy in well made rifles. 1000 yards is better than half a mile, which is asking a lot of rifle, cartridge, and shooter. For this reason "long range" rigs aren't often built in this cartridge. An interesting counterpoint is that the .223 as a midrange (sub 600yd) cartridge represents one of the finest options available in terms of accuracy, recoil, and cost.

As for the .22LR, I've found that shooting .22LR out to 125yds is nearly as difficult as a .308 is at 500yds! Shepherd makes a range compensating reticle system regulated for the .22LR that holds you over out to something like 600yds. My guess is that amazing things can be done with the humble .22LR, just don't expect tiny groups (at 600yds).
 
I've shot an adjustable scope bull barrel 10/22 at 100 yards and hit a coke can at 100 yards. I had to take a SWAG and hold over but it did the job.

The others are more on the line with the .223, so no need to comment.
 
Marines qualify out to 500 yards with iron sights and their M16's. A scope can sharpen things up, as well as a skilled shooter, and you could even shoot further (600-700 yards)... although it doesn't excell at those ranges...

Heavier bullets help at longer distances.
 
Hmm okay, so I should be good to go out to 50, maybe 100 yards w/ my CZ, and later on I can pick up a .223 chambered rifle and do some 200 and 300 yard shooting.

I'll probably get another CZ, seeing as how most of the "fun" .223 semi-autos are banned here in California. Well, that and I'm not interested in an AR clone, which is most of my .223 semi-auto options.

There is the KelTech SU-16, but I'm not sure how accurate or long-term reliable it will be, seeing as how most of it is plastic.

Cameron
 
GunKid and I know the MIGHTY 22LR can engage targets out to 1000 yards! It says so right on the ammo box!
 
The 223 is fine for 200 yards in for most work, but beyond that you would be better served with a larger caliber. While many do push the 223 lead out past 200, ranging to 600, when the bullet gets past 200, it becomes rather ineffective, and beyond @400 yards, it is good for only putting a 22 cal hole in paper. Wind drift for the 223 is twice that of 308, so ranges beyond 300 are more difficult to master. If I was stuck with bolt guns, I would seriously consider a 308 cal rifle for longer ranges, it will make the job easier and more bang for the buck, also a very good all around hunting cal as well, if your interests go that direction.

Just another unsolicited opinion, worth what you paid for it.
 
Wind drift for the 223 is twice that of 308
Click to expand...

Not exactly. It all depends on the bullets.

If you run the numbers an 80gr SMK (.223) vs a 175gr SMK (.308) both moving at 2650fps MV will have a difference of 1.2-1.4 MOA of wind drift at 600 yards in a 10mph cross wind. The 175gr SMK is somewhere around 4.7 MOA wind drift with 10mph cross wind while the 80gr SMK is roughly 6 MOA.
 
The .22WMR gives you maybe 75-100yds of additional range. What it rarely gives you however is accuracy on par with the .22LR offerings. You may note the profound lack of "match" quality .22WMR rifles and ammo. Same case for legions of cartridges for similar reasons.
 
shooting past 600 yards with a 223 is ok but you do not have to many competitions that you can do it in. Yeah you can do palma in the US with a 223 service rifle but to make the palma team you need to shoot a 308. Just the rules so Not very many folks shoot 223 back at those ranges as there is no place to go with them.

a few folks have been trying to make the palma 20 at the nationals with a 223 service rifle and 21st has been the best finish so far. That is with standard post sights and a 20" barrel. tough to compete for the overall that way.
I did try it with my space gun about 2 months ago at 1k. Had not fired it back there and my front sight sucks. first shot for a score was a pinwheel X. They were surprized as the second shot went threw the spotter. first 3 shots were X's and finished with a 145 out of a possible 150 for a score. They asked how much wind I had on and they said it was impossible as they had much more on their 308's. I know I was pushing a 75VLD berger at over 3100 and have never been surprized with that round.

Time to build a 308 this fall as that is what I need.
 
If you want to shoot only at targets then going over 200 yards with a .223 is ok.

But if you took a look at the arc that a .223 follows to get out 300 yards or greater you would understand why its a pure target rifle at very long distances and its not very realistic for field use at those distances.

But they are fun to shoot and fairly inexpensive to reload for, of course all that inexpensive shooting goes away when you go to very high quality bullets to shoot targets at 400 yards with!
 
What a cartridge "can" do and what it is particularly good at doing are often not quite the same.

I have made consistent hits on 12x18" steel @ 700 yards using a 12" SBR shooting 75gr Black Hills (and a TA11), but it is not suited to the task at all.
 
I am a casual occasional recreational F-T/R class shooter and not a big league match, field, tactical, or mankilling expert, but I note that my 6.5 twist .223 shoots 90 gr JLKs flatter and closer to the wind than my .308 does 175 gr SMK. I don't guess 387 ft lbs at 1000 yards would hurt much, though.
 
Zeede

You made an excellent choice in purchasing a CZ .22. Since you mentioned "great iron sights", I assume you got an FS, Special, or Lux. I shot my CZ Special in the "O" Class (open sights) of CMP Sporter for about a year. I switched to "T" Class for the last two years because I love instantly seeing where my hits are. Even with a six power scope magnification limit, a good quality glass reveals those hits. I don't even fool with a spotting scope, since switching to the scope class.

Here is the CZ American that I employ in CMP Sporter shooting:

CZ452American1st-2.gif

Here is a 50 yard slow fire sitting position target reflecting the 100-10X score that I shot in a match stage a while back (blatant bragging :barf: ):

CMPSporter100-10X-1.jpg

I would have been equally as proud of a 98-6X if I had been shooting my open sighted Special.

I had a scope on my Special for a while for accuracy testing and it turned in some awesome 100 yard groups with high quality match ammo. I played an online .22 benchrest game real hard for a couple of years and they would often have 100 yard "fun" matches. The wind and your ability to dope it is very important with .22 long rifle shooting from 25 to 50 yards. But, it is even more of a critical factor in 100 yard shooting. I would often be feeling pretty smug about a 50 yard quarter inch sporter rifle/ammo combo and then find that keeping the same combo under an inch at 100 yards was not an easy endeavor unless I had the wind conditions on my side.
 
Hey Zak ask Leo how I did at 1k with my 223 next time you see him and that should be soon I would think. I had not fired at 1k since the 1989 ca state long range championships. We both had a good laugh with some of the usa palma team members after I got done. The ammo was original loaded for my 20" service rifle and was not tuned for my space gun.

I will either have a 308 built this fall or will buy a used one for long range. If I want to try out for the 2011 team that is what I have to use.

as far as cost goes I use what I like to shoot. Just bought like 5k bergers for the next year or so. Lapua cases and Vithavouri powder. Its only money anyway. But range records and state championships have all been with sierra bullets. LOL

you know how the weather has been this year so I have not shot alot of matches. Shot one last month and it was the first one since sept. shot a 199-15x on the slow fire target with 77 sierra's at 200 yards. Been shooting up loose ammo and that stuff was left over from 2004.

a 223 can be very good and its fun to win a match at 600 yards in a any-any match with a 20" open sight service rifle.
 
I regularly shoot Highpower rifle which means you shoot out to 600 yards, if the range is long enough. And occasionally shoot in 1000 yard matches.

The .223 Remington become competitive with the 308 at 600 yards when the 80 grain Sierra was introduced on the marketplace. A .223 round loaded with an 80 is too long for a AR magazine, but that does not matter for in Highpower, the rounds are single loaded. Still, at 600 yards, the .223 is slightly inferior to the 308.

I asked a Marine team shooter in 1997, the year the Marine Team went totally over to the AR, how things were going. The reply was that scores were better in the rapids, a little worse at long range. (600 yards).

Regardless of what Sniper Dude wannabes claim, and what Nuts and Ammo types think, 1000 yards is one very long way. There are days, when shooting at 1000 yards, that you eat up most of your time just getting a hit on the 8' * 8' target. That is when you start trying to shoot into the berm and hope the pits can tell you if you are left or right of the target. And it is difficult for the target pullers when a .223 is on your target. The .223 comes in subsonic, so there is not a whack when the bullet hits the target, and the impact is so light, that often the pullers don’t feel the hit. At 1000 yards the 308 is at the end of its useful range, but it makes a bigger hole and makes enough commotion that you generally notice a hit.

When folks shoot the 308 service rifle at 1000 yards, keeping in the 44” black is something to very happy about. It is hard. It is still harder for the AR service rifles. I remember a match where the 6mm guys were shooting high 190’s (out of 200 points) and the AR shooter next to me just completed his string. He had never shot 1000 yards, and his score was like a 186. He was frustrated and devastated because at 600 yards, for him, a score of 186 would be a piss poor rotten score, one that would have placed him at the bottom of his class. He was totally skeptical when we told him that was a good score with a service rifle.

And he was totally shocked when he found out he was high service rifle.
 
Zak, Jon got down on the line with some of the best Palma shooters in the country. He and I got centered up as neither of us had zeros for 1k on the rifles we brought (planned on short line practice but the range was under the control of the LR crowd), then we had a pit change. His next time on the line his first 4 shots were center X's at 1k, much to the amazement of the other shooters. I think he ended up with a couple of 9s, but nothing worse.

A few weeks ago Pete Jend fired a 148-7x at 800 in the Palma event at Raton shooting a SR 223. He topped my 148-5x with my $3500 Palma rifle in 308. Admittedly I had two called 9s due to poor position and ended up 30 points ahead before the day was out (but EVERYONE on our relay got eaten up at 1k due to bad winds) to win the Master class, but the SR in 223 can do quite a number at 800-1k. I shot the event a year ago with the 223 SR and had Master scores at 800 and 900, my first ever time shooting past 600 with the SR, then made a mistake at 1k that gave me a miss and a 6. That same mistake would have generated similar results with my 308 palma rifle though.

The bigger issues are not the chambering and bullet performance, rather are sight picture and short sight radius.

Some guy down in TX just won some F-TR match down there oh about 2 months ago shooting a 223. It will get 'er done - just give it a fair chance.
 
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