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how hot to load 30-30s

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by Soundtrackzz, Jul 22, 2009.

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  1. Soundtrackzz

    Soundtrackzz Member

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    Hey guys. Ive been reading alot of articles over on leverguns.com. They basically all end up say that the major draw back of the 30-30 is that while the steel in the guns and the brass improve, the round itself isnt chambered for higher pressures. That the round hasnt changed the way its loaded since the 1940's. is there any truth to this?

    thanks
     
  2. Remo-99

    Remo-99 Member

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    It's not just about modern materials used today against a hundred years ago, but also design comes into play. The shoulder on the 30-30 is very shallow, this is fine for ammo loaded to spec, but when ya start messing with much higher pressures a shallow shoulder allows brass to flow from the already thin case sides and causes all kinds of issues.

    Other calibres of modern high pressure cases have a sharper shoulder and thicker case walls to avoid the issues. If you want modern ballistics from a 30cal levergun checkout the latest chamberings.

    Personally I would not inclinded to go beyond listed max 30-30 data, but you are the one who will be holding the rifle when the hammer drops. So it's what you decide. ;)
     
  3. 243winxb

    243winxb Member

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    30 WCF or 30-30 Winchester

    Saami pressure maximum is listed as 42,000 PSI today. Has this changed since 1940:confused: is what would answer you question. My guess,No. The firearms action type would have different safe working pressures. The lever on the low side, Thompson Center Contender on the higher. Using IMR 4895-150gr the 10" contender can be loaded to 1960fps. I would never put that loading in my 30 WCF. There is a big difference in the listed maximum using IMR 4895-150gr bullets, 33.5gr current Hodgdon, 31.0gr Old Lyman data. and 38.0gr old Speer data,< blow your gun up load IMO. Keep the load lite for the levers. The old M94 holds the title "Most dangerous gun ever made", accidental discharges. Be careful leaving the hammer down on that old 30 WCF. :uhoh::D [​IMG][/URL][/IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2009
  4. The Bushmaster

    The Bushmaster Member

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    Accidental discharges? Winchester .30 WCF? Sense when? I've been carrying this ol' jack handle for almost 50 years and have had only one "accidental" (read "negligent discharge") in all that time and that one was my fault...

    One of the reasons that the round has stayed in the low pressure/velocity catigory is because there are a lot of OLD Winchesters still in service and they would not take too kindly to hopped up rounds...Besides...If the .30 WCF/.30-30 is used for up to 150 yard hunting it is next to perfect for those close in shots and having to carry it through heavy timber and brush up and down mountain sides...
     
  5. freakshow10mm

    freakshow10mm member

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    I don't see any reason to hot rod any cartridge let alone the 30-30.
     
  6. rklessdriver

    rklessdriver Member

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    Agree 100%.

    A regular 30-30 with proper shot placement will take any game animal in North America. What is the advantage of risking destroying yourself and rifle by hot rodding one?
    Will
     
  7. ForneyRider

    ForneyRider Member

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    A custom 30-30 can be pushed to low 308 performance. But it was done in a bolt gun with a very experienced reloader/shooter. The case dimensions were changed to allow for more powder, e.g. the neck was moved forward.

    Bench shooters will use 250/300 Savage brass for 308 Win from time to time as it is thinner and softer. Called a short 308.

    I would never do this and never recommend it.
     
  8. ants

    ants Member

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    I believe it is worthwhile to develop a SAFE load for your .30-30 rifle.

    Put the emphasis on safety. Do not exceed maximum.

    Data is available from dozens of different reliable published sources for lever guns. When we examine the data carefully, we often find loads that don't exceed maximum pressure but surely seem to exceed the velocity of factory ammo. As long as you don't exceed published max, you may try those loads for your rifle. Start low and working upward. If the load remains accurate, you have a safe 'hot' load not exceeding max. If no accuracy is found, it's not worth it. Be sure to pay attention to your rifle; even without exceeding max load, if the action shows signs of distress after discharging a cartridge, stop right there and don't push it any further.

    This is what reloading is all about. Find every safe published load you can find, and start working. It's all a matter of diligence and patience.
     
  9. Kernel

    Kernel Member

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    Use .375 Winchester donor brass cuz it's got the thickest wall of any cartridge in this head size family. The flip side: use .38-55 brass since it's got the largest powder capacity due to it's thinner wall.
     
  10. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

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    BS!

    It is perfectly safe loaded on half-cock, or with the lever cracked open.

    I imagine there have been more people killed or injured by Glock ND's & 12 ga single-shot shotguns then those in the entire history of the 94 Winchester.


    As for pressure?
    The 30-30 is defined by the guns it is chambered in.

    If you put it in a single-shot or strong bolt-action, it could be loaded just as hot as any other caliber.

    The fact is, both the Winchester & Marlin lever-guns are not as strong as single-shots or bolt-actions, and that is the limiting factor on pressure.
    Both lock on the rear of the bolt, and both have relatively small barrel shanks and receiver threads.

    When a lever-gun blows up, they always blow the front receiver ring and blow the barrel off.

    rc
     
  11. ranger335v

    ranger335v Member

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    " how hot to load 30-30s "

    Well, the only way I know to respond to this question is to suggest you move charges up .3 gr. at a time until a case ruptures and then back off a half grain. ??

    Me, I'm gonna stick to the books. Not only is that safe, I know that adding a few extra FPS to a slow round/flat nose bullet will make absolutely no difference in the woods.

    I know some people who go off half cocked. I suppose some of them could be considered dangerous but I don't think any of the applies to a 94/336.
     
  12. Slamfire

    Slamfire Member

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    I have not read these articles. A lot of rounds, like the 6.5 Swede or 8 mm Mauser, are loaded well below their potential because of all the old pre WWI rifles floating around.

    While the materials in leveractions have certainly improved since 1894, the design is still a rear locking design. Which means it is a very springy design with a lot of bolt compressing.

    The brass is the weak link in any design. In my opinion, a design is only strong in so far how it supports the brass. Rear locking actions don't support the brass very well.

    So hot load it, and expect case head separations. In a front locker these have been pretty benign, but in a lever action, well I don't know.

    Maybe you will have a gas release that bows the action. Maybe blows the gas tube off.

    Maybe not.

    Won't know until someone trys it. I never read a good explanation of what caused this 45-70 Marlin to bust. Maybe someone will hot load a 30-30, blow it all to pieces, and post the results.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  13. Kernel

    Kernel Member

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    SlamFire, far freaking out!! I bet that ruined somebody's entire day. A lesson to us all.
     
  14. ants

    ants Member

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    I wonder how long it took to remove the hammer from his forehead?
     
  15. ginny225

    ginny225 Member

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    If you want to have some fun with your30-30 speer makes a 308 varminter 110 gr flat nose hollow point.don"t confuse this with thier regular pointed varminter the stock # is 1835 you can safely load with34 grains of reloader #7 at 2660 fps everyone gives me crap about my 'cowboy assault rifle' but i can acurately put out 7 rds as fast as they can miss with 20.Montana mike.
     
  16. Gadzooks Mike

    Gadzooks Mike Member

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    If you absolutely just gotta have a hot 30-30 - find someone selling a .303 Savage and then find some 190gr silver tips to go with it.
     
  17. Clark

    Clark Member

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    That is total BS.

    The 270 is SAAMI registered at 65,000 psi max average pressure.

    The 30-30 case is WAY stronger than the 270 case.

    How do I know these things?
    Co relating what the cross section of the case looks like with my overload experimental results.

    Kind of like what they pay me to do in engineering.
     
  18. Remo-99

    Remo-99 Member

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    Sorry Clark, I must respetively disagree with you on that one.
     
  19. R.W.Dale

    R.W.Dale Member

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    I disagree, Neither of the above firearms require the shooter to PULL THE TRIGGER on a LOADED chamber from a "HOT" condition to simply engage the safety. Round these parts amongst older hunters the older lever actions have earned a well deserved reputation as being very ND prone I here more firsthand reports of ND's with these than all other firearms combined , especially in cold weather with numb, wet or cold fingers or with youngsters.

    In my opinon the Winchester or marlin is the absolutely WORST firearm to start a young inexperienced shooter on. the "half cock" safety mechanism is the epitome of careless Victorian era engineering
     
  20. alsaqr

    alsaqr Member

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    Lever action rifles have springy actions that allow the case to stretch excessively. Load a lever action .30-30 too hot and you will get case head separations. Load it really hot and you will have a kaboom. The problem is not in the .30-30 cartridge case. The problem is lever action guns in .30-30 caliber. The .30-30 case is used in some very hot .22 caliber wildcat cartridges.

    Since about 1975 I have owned a Remington model 788 bolt action gun chambered for the .30-30 cartridge. I load that gun to low .308 velocities with no signs of high pressure or excessive case stretching.
     
  21. bullseye308

    bullseye308 Member

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    It's really very simple. If you need something hotter, there are plenty of other calibers to use. Whatever you use, keep it within safe limits.
     
  22. Slamfire

    Slamfire Member

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    Had an accidental discharge with a Colt New Service. The weather was hot, the hammer serrations not rough, and the hammer slipped under my thumb while lowering the hammer from a fully cocked position. Round went harmlessly down range.

    I can easily imagine a lever action doing the same thing, if you are in gloves, if your fingers are cold, if, if, if.....

    As much as people don't like the Marlin crossbolt safety, putting the crossbolt safety on before lowering the hammer will prevent an accidental discharge.
     
  23. The Bushmaster

    The Bushmaster Member

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    krochus...Sounds more like careless handling procedures and poor maintenance rather then poor design. I do know that one must be extra careful lowering the hammer down to fired position and then back to half cock, but it has never been a problem with my 60 year old Mod 94 .30 WCF...Like I said...I have only had one "negligent discharge" and that one was my fault...I've owned the rifle for 48 years of it's 60 and use it as my favorite and primary hunting rifle...
     
  24. freakshow10mm

    freakshow10mm member

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    Remo-99, Clark is right. His specialty is destructive testing. He has taken this experience in his career to apply it to firearms. If you want to know about case failures and pressures, etc, Clark is the guy to talk to. He has first hand experience. It isn't theoretical.
     
  25. ants

    ants Member

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    It's really hard for me to blame an 1894 design.

    If you buy ANYTHING designed in 1894, you better be prepared to accept it and learn to deal with it on its own terms.

    In this world we have come to expect that all our products will protect us automatically, we only pick it up and use it with no special knowledge or effort. If that's your desire, buy a modern rifle with all the safety features built in.

    But if you buy an 1894 design, you better be prepared to accept it and learn to handle it safely.
     
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