How important are rifle sights on a home defense shotgun?

[Lone_Gunman]

Is a bead front sight enough for home defense when using buckshot at inside the house range?

I don't plan on using slugs, but if some occassion arose where I wanted to, would rifle sights be critical then?

 

[cloudcroft]

1. Yes.

2. Yes.

-- John D.

 

[GRIZ22]

1. Yes

2. Depends. If you practice centering the bead on the rear of the receiver you can easily shoot 3" groups or better at 25 yd with slugs. If you need more accuracy than this you need rifle sights.

 

[Geno]

My 870 Tactical has a rifle-sight base, with a bead sight and no rear sight. Beyond that, no sight is needed. I load mine buckshot/slug/buckshot/slug/buckshot/slug/buckshot. A sight of the lack of makes no difference when you're within 15 feet.

Take a life-size target and go to the range. Test fire a few boxes and you'll see what I mean. In fast-action (rapid firing) you do not take time to precisely aim. If you want precision, for long range, use a rifle. For home defense, nothing trumps a 12 gauge, and at those close ranges, one point shoots.

 

[waterhouse]

A bead (or even no bead) will be fine for buckshot.

For slugs:

I find I actually shoot slugs more accurately (but not enough to matter in a home defense situation), but A LOT slower with rifle sights. I could probably train myself to stop, but I spend too much time lining up the sights for a perfect shot (Like trying to hit the center of the paper plate instead of 3" away from the center). For the slight increase in accuracy, I prefer the speed I get with the bead.

A bead will work fine, but you need to practice with it until you are comfortable.

My favorite are the ghost rings, but they cost more, are not necessary at all and some people hate them. Probably the best thing you can do is practice until you are proficient with the bead and then decide if you want to try something else.

 

[Fred Fuller]

Sights on a defensive shotgun are a matter of personal preference and individual need. A lifelong shotgunner is going to do just fine with no sights at all, not even a bead. A plain bead works fine for some, others like a front bead plus a mid bead. Folks with less trigger time on shotguns but lots of experience with rifles might be more comfortable with rifle type (open) sights. And some people like aperture (ghost ring) sights on their fighting shotguns.

Traditionally shotguns are pointed not aimed. Shotguns have evolved over centuries to BE pointed. People who learn to shoot shotguns in the traditional manner are accustomed to the idea of pointing more than aiming. At close range that will probably be good enough. Different folks, different strokes. Do what works for you... but BA/UU/R along the way.

Stay safe,

lpl/nc

 

[Dave McCracken]

Nothing's faster than a bead.

Most folks, with a bit of practice, can do well with a bead and slugs out to 50 yards.

My HD 870s have peep sights. They double as deer guns. But I did well before adding the sights on my first.

 

[ravencon]

I believe (haven't actually measured this) I'm a bit faster with a bead. But, I'm have way more trigger time with rifles than shotguns and I therefore prefer shotguns with rifle type sights for HD. Being able to efficiently use slugs is a major plus for rifle sights.

Also, the sad reality is that the high visibility front sights are more desirable as my eyes get older.

 

[ArmedBear]

Since someone with some practice can consistently hit a fast-flying 4 1/3" disc at >40 yards with a bead, it stands to reason that hitting something the size of a burglar at <10 feet with a bead shouldn't be a problem.

A bead is really fast. If you're going to use a long gun in close quarters, that's important. Rifle sights, IMO, are a handicap, maybe a fatal one, if you really need to use your HD shotgun in your bedroom.

 

[swabjocky]

My Norinco M-37 has ghost rings. But at the ranges you're talking about, even the bead is more than you need. Just point in the general direction and sqeeze the trigger.

In the house you might want to look at reduced loads or going to something smaller that 00 buck.

 

[ravencon]

Just point in the general direction

I doubt if that is really the best approach

Though the initial post was about inside the house deployment of the shotgun, it is worth bearing in mind is that under some circumstance you may need to transition to or even start off using the shotgun at longer ranges. Under such circumstances a sight other than the bead will come into its own.

If you have quick access to several long guns this may not be an issue--you can chose either your short range long gun or your longer range long gun. Personally, I prefer a long gun that can do both tasks even though a compromise is required.

 

[Mannlicher]

I have a rifle sight barrel on my 870. I don't depend on a shotgun for HD, prefering a rifle, but if needed, the Wingmaster would do fine.
A bead works for many people, and it works for me too. I have the rifle sight because I want the shotgun to double for hunting hogs.

 

[Bix]

I'm going to go against the grain a little bit here and say "it depends".

If you are shooting a tight-patterning load (like many of the reduced recoil buckshot loads currently on the market), you shotgun is going to shoot very much like a rifle at indoor ranges. Most folks prefer some sort of sights on a rifle.

At a shotgun class last year, I found myself dropping targets during a close range drill that I'd had no problem hitting a little further out earlier in the day. This was because the same 'coarse sight picture/mount' that got pellets into the target with the larger pattern wasn't sufficient to get hits when the pattern hadn't yet opened up. I was frustrated until I slowed down and got the sight picture I needed to see at that close range.

The obvious response to this is: "So, you're off by a little bit. Who cares - it's a shotgun!". Again, I might go against the grain here and say "it depends".

Doc Gunn does an excellent segment on bullet placement in his Tactical Treatment of Gunshot Wounds program that is worth the price of admission by itself. One point he makes is that when we're shooting in self defense, we're not targeting 'the bad guy'. We're targeting very specific structures within the bad guy. In the same way that a hunter does not target 'the deer', but rather, very specific structures within the deer. These structures, in both cases, happen to be pretty small.

So, what I'm getting around to here is that, if you're working to get what amounts to a single projectile into a fairly small area on a big target, you might find rifle sights beneficial.

I, too, really like the speed of beads. The compromise I've found is the XS Standard Dot express sights. The big golf ball front sight and wide, shallow rear are about as quick as a bead for me, but still give me something to allign and make a precise shot if it's needed up close or further out (with slugs).

 

[MCgunner]

I don't need no stinkin' rifle sights on a shotgun with slugs.....if I keep the range to 50 yards or less. I can keep 'em into about 3" at 50 with the bead. Now, for hunting, 100 yards, rifled bore and sabots, sure, you need a better sighting system. My choice for that would be a low power scope and one of those extended barrels, kind that comes back over the receiver to mount a scope onto the barrel rather than the receiver. Of course, I hunt bigger game with a rifle, sorta what rifles are for. Shotguns are for birds and moving targets like jumped rabbits.

In self defense situations, some one beat me to it, a bead is MUCH faster to acquire and in low light, you won't even see the rifle sights. You don't AIM a shotgun so much as you POINT it. Don't use sights on birds or rabbits, ain't gonna use 'em at close range in a dark house. Ever hear of that guy that does the "shoot where you look" classes for kids and adults? He removed the sights from a Daizy BB gun and shoots aspirins he tosses in the air with it. He POINTS. He has no time to AIM. He is one with the gun. Give me a bead.

Just my $.02

http://www.shootwhereyoulook.com/ This guy is good. I'd like to do one of his classes sometime just to watch him shoot.

 

[PJR]

When you use a shotgun for HD purposes are you looking at the target or at the bead? If you are looking at the bead as you should be then you are aiming the gun. Looking at the target you are pointing it. If you are pointing it you don't need the bead.

I don't like beads. I shoot rifle sights more accurately and just as quickly. I use firesights with a light mount and like the added precision with proper sights.

 

[JNewell]

My training experience squares with Dave McC's and MCgunner's posts. Suggestion: after you buy the shotgun, make sure you get some qualified professional training so you feel comfortable with what you and the gun can do together!

 

[gezzer]

For home defense put a Metprolite Nuke bead on it that is all you will need for shot-buck -slug.

 

[Dave McCracken]

If I were setting up another Pure D HD shotgun it'd have just a bead.

Speed.

Positing a low light, high stress, A/S scenario, all but the most highly trained folks will be focussed on the threat, not the sights. A bead with a little Yellow Testor's Enamel on it is quite visible in peripheral vision and easy to place correctly even under adrenaline boost.

Said HD tool would also be shy of addons but would have a fully developed set of wear marks....

 

[Noxx]

One of our HD shotguns is a Mossberg with the short tube on it. I pulled the bead sight because it had a tendency to hang up on sheets and things when yanking it from the slot between the nightstand and bed. For the distances inside my home, any sight, even the bead is pretty pointless, the shotgun for me is purely a point and click endeavor.

HOWEVER, if I had a larger home, or property I might have to go out and secure, I'd probably go with a nuke bead on it for medium range engagements. IMHO, anything far enough out to require rifle sights, requires a rifle to go with em.

 

[MCgunner]

When you use a shotgun for HD purposes are you looking at the target or at the bead? If you are looking at the bead as you should be then you are aiming the gun. Looking at the target you are pointing it. If you are pointing it you don't need the bead.

When I was a teen and hunting geese with a single barrel 16 gauge, the bead fell off that gun. I never bothered replacing it. It shoots just as good without the bead even out at 40+ yards. I point, I don't AIM. I concentrate on the target, not the gun. The gun is part of me. This is why gun fit is important. Do any of you home defense gurus ever consider proper shotgun fit? It's very important in wing shooting and not normally something I can afford to get custom and off the shelf, I've only got one gun I really like. I make due with guns that don't fit just right, but I try to mod 'em best I can. I have a pretty average length of pull requirement, but drop at comb usually is too shallow for me on most guns. One reason I LOVE my Winchester 1400 is the fantastic fit that gun has right out of the box. If the gun fits, it'll be more a part of you than a tool in your hands and will point better for you naturally.

 

[wdlsguy]

Being more of a rifle / pistol guy, it was a real eye-opener for me the first time I shot some slugs in my bead-sighted 870 at 25 yards. They grouped well enough, but they shot significantly higher than I was expecting...

 

[ArmedBear]

There's no substitute for trying the gun out before you need to use it.

 

[Legionnaire]

The 18.5" barrel on my Mossy has rifle sights ... because it has rifle sights. I'd be just as comfortable with a bead for HD. You have to practice either way.

 

[Zwetschgen]

A rifle scope for home defense? Does your home in it's entire length even measure 50 yards? That's 150 feet from end to end. If you live in a huge house, then the most open space is probably from a bedroom looking into a hallway which leads to a livingroom, so about 50 feet at the most extreme points, for Joe Shmoe I'd guess from 15 to 20 feet of open space before a wall or corner is encountered.

I'd recommend a scope if you plan on 1) Scaring the attacker/burglar/whoever out of your home, then 2) proceeding to follow them outside and shoot them down as they ran/drove away. This is really the only practical (not sure it is legal in many states to shoot a fleeing person in the back, not sure I'd want to follow them) reason to have a scope for the purpose of having a home defense scope. If you are a farmer and catch people destroying crops on your acreage I'd suggest a rifle.

Sure, everyone probably doubles the home defense weapon as a clay pidgeon shooter or occasionally a deer. If you really feel the need for a scope to take a deer then buy one and use it when you deer hunt or what ever. I've never heard of some one shooting claws with a scope, just isn't quick enough. I'd suggest waiting to get a better shot, deer can get pretty close to you. Furthermore if it is that imparitive, I'd suggest just buying a rifle for what ever your rifle needs.

Also, using a slug in home defense sounds a bit over kill, unless you intend on firing through a few walls first. Any size buckshot would probably be your best bet anyhow. The more large projectiles means more chances for critical injury. I'd recommend #1's or anything higher. I use 00 buck, but to each his own. There is a never ending battle over which shot is used, I've seen a standard 2 3/4" 1oz slug puncture five inches of plywood at the distance of twenty yards, so at the distance of 20 feet it is my impression the slug would pass right through them and cause little to no shock. Also, using shot improves your chances to hit anything: 9 pellets vs 1 slug.

If you know anyone that has any kinds of scope ask to borrow it and at midnight get it out and look through it. You'll probably get a magnified picture of darkness, besides trying to focus a scope at 20 feet might prove to be difficult.

That's my thoughts on it. Home defense is a fairly loose term and can mean all kinds of things.

 

[AndyC]

I've seen a standard 2 3/4" 1oz slug puncture five inches of plywood at the distance of twenty yards, so at the distance of 20 feet it is my impression the slug would pass right through them and cause little to no shock.

I guarantee that having a 3/4", 1 ounce piece of metal driven right through your body will cause severe shock - although I believe you're thinking of the long-debunked theory of energy-dump, where, to be effective, it's claimed that a projectile ideally has to stop within a body in order to completely transfer its energy.

The damage is produced by crushed tissue and the resultant blood-loss, which then produces shock; in other words, shock is a result of a GSW - it has nothing to do with energy-transfer.