How important is the primer for a recipe?

[TargetTerror]

I've seen some recipes that specify a specific primer. How important is the brand of primer to a recipe? I've been told that Federal is ideal all around because it is soft and easier to ignite (which means fewer misfires). Would I be alright using all Federal primers in my loads, or is that dangerous/a bad idea?

And I trust I can assume that a .38 and 9mm recipe uses a standard primer while a .357 magnun takes a magnum primer unless otherwise specified?

 

[scrat]

depends on the equipment you are using. i do not use federal primers. in fact some manufactures tell you not to use federal primers in thier tools. This is because they are a little unstable and can explode easier. Because of this manufactures like lee recomend cci, winchester and other brands except federal.
so just be cautious. i used cci i for a few years. i am just testing the waters with winchester primers. from what i hear they are supposed to be better than cci. however that still remains to be seen.

 

[PotatoJudge]

It is my understanding that shotgun reloading and max loads are most demanding of their specific primer.
Most published loads specify the primer used to develop the load, though equivalent primers usually give about the same velocities and pressures.

Federal primers are probably fine for you. I use Winchester and CCI because that's what my grandfather uses and has worked up loads with, and they've always worked fine.

 

[Sunray]

"...takes a magnum primer..." Nope. Regular small pistol primers work just fine. The rule is use a magnum primer if your manual says to not the other way around. Magnum primers burn a bit hotter for a slightly longer time. They're for light hard to ignite powders. You don't need 'em for the .357 Magnum though.
The make of primer really only matters for serious target loads like those used by benchrest shooters and long range target rifle shooters. Changing primers can change the POI and the group size, but for shooting for fun, it doesn't matter. You aren't likely to notice any change. It does matter for a hunting rifle load, but not teribbly so.
Use the Federal if that's what you can get, but have a look at some other too. Mind you, it does depend on the kind of shooting you're doing. CCI's and Winchesters go in my loads, but primarily only because that's what I could get when I was working up loads.

 

[Batmaxwyo]

The 357 magnum primer will fit the 38/9mm cases that can an affect on your recipe which could be good or bad. That's one one reason that I can think about.

 

[mc223]

They alway say if any component changes, work your loads up from a safe starting load. Different powders and bullets and primers in various case sizes can drastically change pressure.
Use magnum primers when specified in the load data. Some powders need a magnum primer in some situations like adverse cold just to ignite it.
As far as individual brands go there are differences as well. Sometimes a moderate intensity primer will give better performance than a hotter primer. For my high pressure 38 super comp. loads I use small rifle primers, not because they are hotter, but because the cup is thicker and more resistant to the high pressure.
See the link below. It is not all inclusive of primer brand, but does show the extreme difference between primers. These are rifle primers. Sorry haven't found any pistol primer images.

http://usera.imagecave.com/PCSNaples/Primers/

Scrat
The story as told to me is that Richard Lee had a business falling out with the Folks at Federal, and took it upun himself to publish the story of the sensitive primers.
I really dont think Federal would knowingly distribute internationally an inferior product. I do most of my loading on a Dillon, and have used thousands of Federal primers, both rifle and pistol types, without even a hiccup. I have dropped them, tried to seat them upside down and sideways and still no problem with sensitivity or misfires or no fires or hang fires etc.

depends on the equipment you are using. i do not use federal primers. in fact some manufactures tell you not to use federal primers in thier tools. This is because they are a little unstable and can explode easier. Because of this manufactures like lee recomend cci, winchester and other brands except federal.

 

[The Bushmaster]

If you change your primer from a standard primer to a magnum primer drop your powder charge by 10% as rework your way back up watching for over pressure signs. If you are going from a magnum primer to a standard primer you should not have to change anything... I use CCI and Winchester. Mostly Winchester. Federal primers are not unstable. Just more sensitive to being struck. CCI is the least senitive to being struck. That's why you hear of people having problems with CCI primers missfiring. They didn't missfire. They weren't struck hard enough.

 

[Walkalong]

We all used to use Federal Match primers in our bench guns. During the primer shortage a few years back many folks switched to WSR primers due to availabilty and reported excellent results. Some never went back to Fed Match again because the WSR's were cheaper.

Yea, it can make a difference, but the biggest diiference is which bullet your gun likes. Try bullet changes and powder tweakng before worrying about primers. I heard Allen Hall say about primers once. "if it goes bang, you don't have a problem"

 

[Sistema1927]

I never load to max, so I don't worry much about which primer I use. If I was loading close to the edge I would more carefully consider primer manufacturer.

Most of the time CCI works just fine, except that for my .45 Colt Cowboy loads I use Federal since the action job on my 1892 causes it to choke sometimes on the harder CCI primer.

 

[layusn1]

I use CCI Small Rifle Magnum Primers in my 223 load with W748 because the load data in the book called for it and boy does it work. I never tried a different primer with the same data because I don't feel the need to mess with a dime sized 5 shot group.

 

[shenck]

Primers

For large rifle cases I always use CCI magnum primers, I start low and work my way up. I have never had a problem. For pistol or (small rifle cases That use large primers ,like the 30-30) , I follow the reloading manual. Pistol cases, (and small rifle cases) are smaller and more sensitive to changes in pressure.

 

[Sam Adams]

layusn1

I use CCI Small Rifle Magnum Primers in my 223 load with W748 because the load data in the book called for it and boy does it work. I never tried a different primer with the same data because I don't feel the need to mess with a dime sized 5 shot group.

OK, you know the rules: give us the details of your load and rifle. Thanks.

 

[Art Eatman]

In all my '06 loadings, I've never noticed any ill effects from mixing a string of shots where there were some Remington primers and some Winchesster. They all went to the usual-sized grouping.

Most of my pistol shooting has been tin-can plinking or IPSC style. I've never had any problems with any primer brand in any pistol load. They all work just fine.

For rifles, the biggest variables affecting groups for a hunting rifle seem to be powder charges up near max, and bullets.

FWIW, Art

 

[strat81]

The story as told to me is that Richard Lee had a business falling out with the Folks at Federal, and took it upun himself to publish the story of the sensitive primers. I really dont think Federal would knowingly distribute internationally an inferior product. I do most of my loading on a Dillon, and have used thousands of Federal primers, both rifle and pistol types, without even a hiccup. I have dropped them, tried to seat them upside down and sideways and still no problem with sensitivity or misfires or no fires or hang fires etc.

Story sounds fishy to me. ATK owns several companies:
http://www.atk.com/CorporateOverview/corpover_ammogroup.asp
Federal, CCI, Speer, Alliant, and RCBS are all ATK brands. Why would Richard Lee trash Federal primers but not CCI?

 

[mc223]

It's just a story and ATK did'nt always own the other companies.

 

[redneck2]

I read a thing somewhere that changing primer brands can effect pressure as much as 7,000# in a rifle. I have an article somewhere in my reloading stuff called "Primer on Primers" IIRC. Gives the relative intensity of each.

As noted, CCI's are harder to light off IMO. I tried some in my Contender (which are known for light strikes) and maybe 1 in 10 were duds. There was a dent in primer, just no "bang"

I use WW's in my pistols since they work for regular and mag loads. I use AA5 (ball) so it's nice to have enough fire.

I've loaded thousands of Federals in my Dillon 550. They've been upside down, crushed sideways, and they never went off. If you read Lee's book, his stuff and his ideas are surpassed only by The Second Coming, and it's even close at that.

 

[Ol` Joe]

Changing any part of the load from the book isn`t always wise. You usually can get away with it but altering a component will alter the load.

A-Square put out a manual that has more info on load preformance then any other I`ve read.
The book is called "Any Shot You Want"
They use rifle cartridges as examples, that is what they build, but the findings hold true in handgun cartridges also. They change buulet style, case capasity, and other obvious things and report on the effect they have on pressures. One thing they explore is the relation of the primer used to a given load.
The book uses a 7mm Remington Mag for a cartridge and 66 gr of H4831 with a 160 gr Sierra SBT. Useing primers from Winchester, Federal, CCI, and Remington they recorded a max pressure spread of 12,800 psi with a primer change only. The lots of components were all the same as was test conditions.
The fact you go from a mag primer from a std doesn`t help either. They found changing from a Remington 9 1/2M (magnum) primer to a Winchester WLR (std lg rifle) primer caused the average pressure to rise from 59,300psi for the mag primer to 64,400psi for the std. The Federal 215 magnum which I`ve heard many times called a "hot" rifle primer gave 100 psi less pressure then a CCI 250 mag primer.

BTW;
The Remington 9 1/2 M load showed 3,041 fps @ 59,300 psi.
The Winchester WLRM load ran 3045 fps @ 67,600 psi.
A 8,300 psi GREATER pressure for only 4 fps gain!!

The Win std primer loading ran 3,024 fps @ 64,400 psi.
That`s a DROP in velocity of 17 fps and a gain of 5,100 psi over the Remington mag primer load!

Don`t figure it is cut in stone your faster load is always giveing lower pressures, or that you can relate velocity to a change in pressure reliably. You may be very wrong........

 

[TargetTerror]

Thanks for all of the information everyone!

I think for now I'm probably going to stick with Federal Primers. I'm hopefully going to install some lighter springs in my S&W 686, so I definitely want primers that are easier to set off.

 

[redneck2]

On the website "Steve's Pages", he talks about the effect of primers. Had a load that would not shoot. Could not get it to work. Changed the primer and dropped the groups from maybe 1 1/2"-2" down to less than moa. Had to be a change the pressure curve. More pressure or less?? Dunno, but it was different.

FWIW...using typical pressure signs, particularly with pistols, is a fools errand. Doesn't work.