I'm a fan of all the main defense calibers. 9mm, .40, .357 SIG, .45 ACP, and even the 10mm. We all have our favorites but few want to admit that a handgun is "only" a handgun. And in the greater scheme of things it doesn't really make that much of a difference which you choose. I've read a few "real life" reports where citizens had to use their handgun for self defense at GlockTalk, SIGForum, 1911Forum, and elsewhere. And whether they were using a 9mm or a .45 what got them through was their training and a willingness to fight. Not the type of gun or caliber they used.
How many believe Caliber Wars Are Overblown
- Thread starter Ian11
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NC Shooter
Member
Every caliber has a purpose and will be better than another for one particular reason or another.
Me? I still like my 45's
Me? I still like my 45's
Ala Dan
Member in memoriam
I likes em' all; defense caliber's that is!
Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member
Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member
It does matter.
Your skill matters:
how much you practice, how much you study, the classes you attend.
Your equipment matter:
how it fits your hand, how it naturally point, the trigger, etc.
Your mental attitude matters also.
This includes as you have touch upon, the preparedness and dedication to the fight.
But all of the above does not mean that the caliber is not important. For some reason someone in a book wrote that a large caliber and a small caliber are so close in size in relation to the human body that any difference does not matter. If this were the case, then we would all be shooting .22 lr or at least .22 magnums. Any additional surface area of the wound that causes more bleeding is a plus, any at all.
Dobe, and this is just my humble .45 ACP opinion
Your skill matters:
how much you practice, how much you study, the classes you attend.
Your equipment matter:
how it fits your hand, how it naturally point, the trigger, etc.
Your mental attitude matters also.
This includes as you have touch upon, the preparedness and dedication to the fight.
But all of the above does not mean that the caliber is not important. For some reason someone in a book wrote that a large caliber and a small caliber are so close in size in relation to the human body that any difference does not matter. If this were the case, then we would all be shooting .22 lr or at least .22 magnums. Any additional surface area of the wound that causes more bleeding is a plus, any at all.
Dobe, and this is just my humble .45 ACP opinion
Erich
Member
I don't know of any CCW death rays . . .
Shot placement, shot placement, shot placement.
Shot placement, shot placement, shot placement.
Leibster
Member
All the calibers you mentioned possess the ability to incapacitate as intended.
While some may argue that one caliber is better than another, it would be silly to argue that any of those calibers are ineffective.
--Leibster
While some may argue that one caliber is better than another, it would be silly to argue that any of those calibers are ineffective.
--Leibster
Ditto times a million.
and I will add
Practice, Practice, Practice
I always find it entertaining when someine thinks that because they carry a 45 they are going to knock someone flat on their a$$. Having said that. I carry a 45.
I think it is important. But not the only important factor, just one of many. Shot placement is the most important factor... but cailber is probably #2. Think about it, you could be a PERFECT shot, but if all your shooting is .22 short, you might be in trouble anyway. On the other hand, I think that as long as you are shooting something equal to or greater than .380, it doesn't make much differance. My carry gun is a 9mm Makarov (aka 9X18 ), and I don't feel it is too small. Some people tell me that .45 ACP is the only way to go, but I don't think any of them would volunteer to stand in front of me when I'm shooting either...
clubsoda22
member
the ammo you use rather than the caliber you pick is what makes the difference. If it was all FMJ, then yeah, you'd want a .45 over a 9mm. But with the right hollowpoint or fragmenting ammo, the difference is negligable.
Snake Eyes
Member
I hate unsubstantiated statistics, but for the life of me I can't remember where I heard this. So you decide if you want to beleive it or not...But I distinctly remember reading somewhere that 85% of people shot with handguns survive their injuries.
Anecdote #2:
In my Arizona CCW class, one module was taught by a retired FBI agent. Any one who took their class at the old Shooters World on Indian School and 28th Avenue probably remembers him (Ron Something??). He discussed an incedent where several (more than 5) FBI agents were attempting to aprehend a fleeing felon. Every one emptied their guns at the suspect in his auto, including two agents with shotguns. The suspect was hit only twice and survived.
My opinion from everything I've read is that if YOU are good enough--and I mean a level most of us will probably never attain, like professional--caliber doesn't matter. If you're not good at all, caliber doesn't matter. If you are some where in the middle, caliber probably STILL doesn't matter but it might give you a little tiny bit of edge to have a big enough caliber.
It is also my very humble opinion, contrary to most opinions, that .32 is in fact enough caliber. (Asbestos underwear on, running like heck!)
Anecdote #2:
In my Arizona CCW class, one module was taught by a retired FBI agent. Any one who took their class at the old Shooters World on Indian School and 28th Avenue probably remembers him (Ron Something??). He discussed an incedent where several (more than 5) FBI agents were attempting to aprehend a fleeing felon. Every one emptied their guns at the suspect in his auto, including two agents with shotguns. The suspect was hit only twice and survived.
My opinion from everything I've read is that if YOU are good enough--and I mean a level most of us will probably never attain, like professional--caliber doesn't matter. If you're not good at all, caliber doesn't matter. If you are some where in the middle, caliber probably STILL doesn't matter but it might give you a little tiny bit of edge to have a big enough caliber.
It is also my very humble opinion, contrary to most opinions, that .32 is in fact enough caliber. (Asbestos underwear on, running like heck!)
Standing Wolf
Member in memoriam
I believe it's a matter of bullet placement, bullet placement, and bullet placement. I personally prefer the .357 magnum to all others, but I'm sure there are plenty of people who loathe the caliber.
Rick Blaine
Member
I agree that among gun enthusiasts, good shot placement is an equalizer. Most people here probably practice on a regular basis, and I'm sure that many could get the job done if they had to with anything between a .32 and a .45 auto. For the average citizen who maybe doesn't put in a lot of practice I would prefer to see them buy something in the middle with manageable recoil, such as a 9mm or even a .38 revolver. For them it's better not to go so small in caliber as to require perfect placement, and not so large as to require strong hands to handle the recoil. For me, self defense begins at 9mm. I carry .40 S&W most days.
Lone_Gunman
Member
Shot placement is a variable that can't be controlled to any large degree under stress.
While it may be of most importance, it is also least controllable.
.45 Caliber bullets are a constant.
1400 fps from a 357 is a constant.
Maximize the constants.
In other words, I would prefer a 45 or 357. I usually carry a 32 though.
Makes no sense, does it?
While it may be of most importance, it is also least controllable.
.45 Caliber bullets are a constant.
1400 fps from a 357 is a constant.
Maximize the constants.
In other words, I would prefer a 45 or 357. I usually carry a 32 though.
Makes no sense, does it?
caliber wars
many years ago i worked in a small slaughterhouse. we used a ruger .22 auto pistol with long rifle ammo, to shoot the animals in the kill shute. every steer that was shot couldn't hit the floor fast enough. it was just like a marrionet with it's strings cut.
whats my point? even the lowly .22 will get the job done if the placement is adequate. the trick is to get the "bad guys" to stand still in a kill shute.
many years ago i worked in a small slaughterhouse. we used a ruger .22 auto pistol with long rifle ammo, to shoot the animals in the kill shute. every steer that was shot couldn't hit the floor fast enough. it was just like a marrionet with it's strings cut.
whats my point? even the lowly .22 will get the job done if the placement is adequate. the trick is to get the "bad guys" to stand still in a kill shute.
New_comer
Member
If only the .45ACP guys admit that the 9mm is the most efficient in doing what handguns are designed to do in the first place, that the 10mm Long and its cousin, the 10mm Kurtz, were never part of the argument, nor are these the answer, then this "which is the better caliber" issue wouldn't have been blown out of proportion...
Flame suit on!!!
Flame suit on!!!
Jaco
Member
Gun forums are like photography forums - Everyone discussing the hardware, and very few threads on technique. I've seen brilliant photos taken with throwaway cameras and kills with .22 Standard Velocity, with the .22 you just have to practise more. Bigger guns (like more expensive cameras) would help you, but the old rules still apply:
1. You've got to have it with you.
2. It has to be reliable.
3. You have to hit something with it.
1. You've got to have it with you.
2. It has to be reliable.
3. You have to hit something with it.
Son of John
Member
- Joined
- Jul 16, 2003
- Messages
- 30
Never a winner
No matter what you carry, somebody can come along with something bigger and faster. This goes from .22 to .45 to .454 Casull. Then when you think you've got the best handgun, somebody with a puny rifle walks in and has you beat. And on and on till some guy drives up in an M-1 Abrams.
Then the guy get's out of the M-1 and someone shoots him with a .22.
Sure is funny reading how serious some people are about what bullet they shoot and how it is "THE ONE". Also funny how common sense doesn't seem to factor into these kind of arguments.
No matter what you carry, somebody can come along with something bigger and faster. This goes from .22 to .45 to .454 Casull. Then when you think you've got the best handgun, somebody with a puny rifle walks in and has you beat. And on and on till some guy drives up in an M-1 Abrams.
Then the guy get's out of the M-1 and someone shoots him with a .22.
Sure is funny reading how serious some people are about what bullet they shoot and how it is "THE ONE". Also funny how common sense doesn't seem to factor into these kind of arguments.
It come down to personal preference. Practice,skill, and attitude are more important than bore size and muzzle velocity. I like a .45 ACP because it has proven itself to work but so have other calibers. Shoot what you like. It's your butt on the line.
10-Ring
Member
It comes down to shot placement, practice, personal preference, practice, quality equipment, practice, & then caliber. Sure, I'd much prefer carrying my USP 45 than my Jetfire, but circumstances dictate what gets carried from time to time.
I think its a continuum. Is a well-placed round of .45 ACP significantly better than a similarly placed round of .25 ACP? Heck yeah. However, it is the classic decelerating curve. Once you reach a certain level of performance (and we can all debate where that is), the differences start getting smaller and smaller and smaller.
I would not feel undergunned with anything at or above .38 Special. Others won't feel comfortable unless they're toting .454 Casull. *shrug*
And, as always, carry the gun with which you can hit reliably (and this is a factor of caliber, frame, grips, sights, etc). That is a far better determiner of what is best for your defense than caliber alone.
JMO, no warranties expressed or implied.
Mike
I would not feel undergunned with anything at or above .38 Special. Others won't feel comfortable unless they're toting .454 Casull. *shrug*
And, as always, carry the gun with which you can hit reliably (and this is a factor of caliber, frame, grips, sights, etc). That is a far better determiner of what is best for your defense than caliber alone.
JMO, no warranties expressed or implied.
Mike
BerettaNut92
Member
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- Dec 23, 2002
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- 9,723
Dude, shut up and just get a Glock
IMO Caliber selection is important and must fit the user, but arguing over minute differences is stupid.
LeonCarr
Member
One day the gun student walks up to the gun guru and asks "Gun guru, which handgun cartridge provides the best stopping power?" The gun guru hands the gun student a paper target, and says "When you can shoot all of your rounds into the black part of this target, I will give you the answer to your question". A few days later, the gun student walks up to the gun guru and says "I did what you told me, and shot all of my rounds inside of the black part of the target. When I finished, I realized that I did not need to know the answer to my question." The gun guru smiled.
I personally use the LeonCarr - 3F method, regardless of caliber. Fire 'til the Felon Falls.
Just my .02,
LeonCarr
I personally use the LeonCarr - 3F method, regardless of caliber. Fire 'til the Felon Falls.
Just my .02,
LeonCarr
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Intune
Member
I remember reading somewhere (famous line) that there have been people shot with .22’s in a non-lethal area who have gone into shock & died. Contrasted by people who have been lethally shot but continued to fight until blood loss put them down. With that said, is my thinking flawed in that I believe that a perfectly placed .22 solid through the heart will not put down MOST people as quickly as a perfectly placed .454 hollowpoint in the same location? Edumacate me!
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