longeyes
member
Needs to be re-written.
But so does the New York Times.
But so does the New York Times.
How many here agree with the Patriot Act?
- Thread starter Harve Curry
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Carl N. Brown
Member
Oh, that's what it stands for.
Thanks to Can'thavenuthinggood on the other PatAct thread:
U.S.A. P.A.T.R.I.O.T. Act: Uniting and Strengthening America by
Providing Appropriate Tools Required to Intercept and Obstruct Terrorism
Do we all feel United and Strong over this? I feel divided and uncertain.
P.A.T.R.I.O.T. may be remembered like the Assault Weapon Ban:
a law that did less than was feared on the one hand and wanted on
the other; pretty harmless, unless you believe Algore and Bill Clinton
when they said the AWB gave the Republicans a majority in the House
and Senate and ultimately the White House.
BTW it would take more than the USA PATRIOT Act to "shred" the BoR.
It is a useless, divisive piece of legislation and agencies can do a good
job within the Constitution without it.
Thanks to Can'thavenuthinggood on the other PatAct thread:
U.S.A. P.A.T.R.I.O.T. Act: Uniting and Strengthening America by
Providing Appropriate Tools Required to Intercept and Obstruct Terrorism
Do we all feel United and Strong over this? I feel divided and uncertain.
P.A.T.R.I.O.T. may be remembered like the Assault Weapon Ban:
a law that did less than was feared on the one hand and wanted on
the other; pretty harmless, unless you believe Algore and Bill Clinton
when they said the AWB gave the Republicans a majority in the House
and Senate and ultimately the White House.
BTW it would take more than the USA PATRIOT Act to "shred" the BoR.
It is a useless, divisive piece of legislation and agencies can do a good
job within the Constitution without it.
xd9fan
Member
Maybe if the U.S. Govt had faith in its law-abidding armed citizens they would not NEED a "patriot" act.
Harve Curry
Member
xd9fan said:
+1 xd9fan
Now that you bring it up I don't think our goverment has any good faith, good will, or trust, of and towards it's citizens. Otherwise we wouldn't have so many laws, regulations enforced as law, and outright usurpations of the Constitution and Bill of Rights by the very people who have sworn and oath to defend it.
Waitone
Member
The issue is not trust. The issue is control. Governments control; that's what they do. And it also explains by the second amendment exists. It keeps the very organization that seeks to control from having a monopoly on force. The dead european white guys felt it desirable for government to have a healthy respect (fear) of those whom it ruled.
Harve Curry
Member
Waitone,
I stand corrected.
I stand corrected.
USMCRotrHed
Member
Support for Pat Act iffy
I like the ideas in the patriot act as long as they are only applied to our countries enemies, and primarily applied overseas. BUT, and it's a big but, The way the patriot act is currently written, it erodes everyones constitutional rights. Any Constitutionalist or "Strict Interpretor" of the constitution would have to strick it down if they maintained their intellectual honesty. Does the patriot act help the government fight terrorism...I believe it does. Does the patriot act violate the constitution.....I believe it does.
If we give up our liberties in the name of security, we never had that liberty in the first place!
It needs to be re-written.
I like the ideas in the patriot act as long as they are only applied to our countries enemies, and primarily applied overseas. BUT, and it's a big but, The way the patriot act is currently written, it erodes everyones constitutional rights. Any Constitutionalist or "Strict Interpretor" of the constitution would have to strick it down if they maintained their intellectual honesty. Does the patriot act help the government fight terrorism...I believe it does. Does the patriot act violate the constitution.....I believe it does.
If we give up our liberties in the name of security, we never had that liberty in the first place!
It needs to be re-written.
Don't Tread On Me
Member
If you support the Patriot Act on any level, you hate the Bill of Rights, you hate freedom, and you have everything which is America, including the 2nd Amendment.
Can'thavenuthingood
Member
"desirable for government to have a healthy respect (fear) of those whom it ruled."
Not ruled, not ruled.
How about " A healthy respect for those it serves"? Which is of course all those that are not employed by the government, called taxpayers. Currently we seem to be exploited by the government.
Also on the USA PATRIOT Act, I think quite a bit of it could have been incorporated into the past acts it tried to stitch together, FISA, PEN and the wiretap one I forget which, but there are several.
Congress again is pushing its responsibility off onto another entity, it don't care who, just anybody. I'd expect to see the KKK (KerryKennnedyKinship) involved in leaking this fiasco. They passed this back in 2001 and NOW its an issue?
Buncha weiners up there.
Vick
Not ruled, not ruled.
How about " A healthy respect for those it serves"? Which is of course all those that are not employed by the government, called taxpayers. Currently we seem to be exploited by the government.
Also on the USA PATRIOT Act, I think quite a bit of it could have been incorporated into the past acts it tried to stitch together, FISA, PEN and the wiretap one I forget which, but there are several.
Congress again is pushing its responsibility off onto another entity, it don't care who, just anybody. I'd expect to see the KKK (KerryKennnedyKinship) involved in leaking this fiasco. They passed this back in 2001 and NOW its an issue?
Buncha weiners up there.
Vick
USMCRotrHed
Member
You're entitled to your opinion
Let me try to clarify my comment. If I were a judge and the patriot act was questioned in my courtroom. I would find it unconstitutional. Period. I do think the government should have the power to use the tools the patriot act give it, but only outside the US, and only against non-citizens of the US. I will go even farther and say that it does give the government too much power because it limits our GOD-given rights. I do not like the patriot act, but I think it could be re-written to actually do what it is advertised to do without violating our rights.
I also hope you are not questioning my loyalty or patriotism...Them's fighten' words and neither one of us wants to get kicked off this forum. Just trust me when I say I am as freedom loving, red blooded American as they come, just like everyone here. Remember, if there wasn't a difference of opinion, there would be no need for a first amendment. If there was never a tyranny, there would never be a reason for a second amendment.
Hope this helps.
Let me try to clarify my comment. If I were a judge and the patriot act was questioned in my courtroom. I would find it unconstitutional. Period. I do think the government should have the power to use the tools the patriot act give it, but only outside the US, and only against non-citizens of the US. I will go even farther and say that it does give the government too much power because it limits our GOD-given rights. I do not like the patriot act, but I think it could be re-written to actually do what it is advertised to do without violating our rights.
I also hope you are not questioning my loyalty or patriotism...Them's fighten' words and neither one of us wants to get kicked off this forum. Just trust me when I say I am as freedom loving, red blooded American as they come, just like everyone here. Remember, if there wasn't a difference of opinion, there would be no need for a first amendment. If there was never a tyranny, there would never be a reason for a second amendment.
Hope this helps.
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