How many jams are too many?

[tetchaje1]

Ya wanna sleep well?
With all due respect to you 1911 owners out there (I used to own one too) , jams are to be expected in the 1911. It's only a question of the frequency. Sure, you can cut it down to 1 in a thousand, but that takes a lot of effort and adjustments and maybe smithing that other guns don't need.

Since you clearly value reliability highly, consider another kind of pistol, or a revolver. The word "Glock" is heresy but hey, they are reliable as hell. Or get a Smith&Wesson 625 , if you want to stick with the excellent .45acp cartridge, or a 686. Then sleep well.

You know it is funny how all the Glock-guys tout the "reliability" of their Wunder-tupperware, but at the last IDPA match, all of the 1911s in our group performed flawlessly...but the guy with the Glock 22 experienced jams in almost every single string. He even had a couple of strings where he had multiple failures against multiple targets. Personally, I'll stick with a well-tuned 1911, thank you.

 

[LeonCarr]

I have spent way too much money on 1911s over the years trying to get them to run right. You can do all of that magazine fixin', spring changin' stuff that should have been done at the factory, to a 1911, or you can just buy a Glock that will run 100% out of the box. If the 1911 is so great, why do you have to do all kinds of tuning and modifications, even to so-called "enhanced" factory guns, to get them to run right?

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

 

[tetchaje1]

LeonCarr,
I think most of the problems that people have with 1911s are caused by people tinkering around instead of by virtue of the gun's design. I have seen many, many 1911s that are flawless right out of the box.

Glocks are not infallible, as many people here seem to believe. Just like I mentioned above, one guy's G22 was jamming in almost every single string, and I have seen my bro-in-law's service issue G22 jam at the range while my SIGs, HKs, and 1911s happily motor along. FWIW, I have never seen a jam in my Dad's Series-70 Colt 1911 that he bought in the early 1980's.

 

[tc300mag1]

All i can say is my 2 1911's ive had have run fine out of the boxexcept a couple ammo related jams

I decided not to tinker or add ons or anything and i never had any probs with them. Buddy decided he needed cool stuff for his and guess what it wouldnt run

 

[riverdog]

The only problem 1911 I've had lately was fixed by swapping the springs and followers in a few of my Wilson 8 round "47D" mags for the stronger springs and round follower in their 7 round "47" mags. The difference is significant -- thicker wire and more coils..

As for Glocks: I like the few Glocks I own, but they really suck with the Clinton mags. With the exception of a couple bad 10 round magazines, I've never had an extraction/feed problem that wasn't caused by limp wristing.

The only extractor swap I've done was to replace a Colt factory extractor with a Wilson Barstock extractor; it's probably similar to the Brown hardcore. I tensioned it per the Wilson instruction sheet that came with the extractor -- using the extractor channel as a vise. Worked like a champ and has given me zero extraction/ejection/feed problems. YMMV, but the Wilson internal parts work well for me.

 

[1911Tuner]

Money Well Spent

Leon said:

I have spent way too much money on 1911s over the years trying to get them to run right. You can do all of that magazine fixin', spring changin' stuff that should have been done at the factory, to a 1911, or you can just buy a Glock that will run 100% out of the box. If the 1911 is so great, why do you have to do all kinds of tuning and modifications, even to so-called "enhanced" factory guns, to get them to run right?

I can sympathize, Leon...but it hasn't always been so. The functional issues with out-of-box 1911s seems to be a fairly recent trend, and after
spanning the period between the Good Old Days, and the New Age Ecomomics in the firearm industry, I have to lay 99% of the blame on
the drive for profit over quality.

The corporate bean counters will work all day to figure a way to save a dime on a spring or a quarter on an extractor, etc. For the record, I've had
relatively little functional problems from even the newer ones, with the
main issues being small parts breakage. Can anybody say: Supplied by the lowest bidder? I would much prefer that the price go up and the guns have the right parts.

As for all the money spent to no avail, it's common to encounter guns that have simple problems...which happens with any machine that is mass-produced...but the problem is attacked from the wrong direction. A perfect
example is the Ramp and Throat tinkerer that immediately starts grinding and polishing that area, when the ramp/throat isn't the problem at all.
It's usually the magazine...another component supplied by the lowest bidder...and by the time he gets through "tuning" it...the gun is reduced to
the status of a pretty paperweight.

Glocks feed well primarily because the barrel throat is such that it doesn't support the case head properly...which is why we hear of blown cases in the hig-pressure calibers like .40 Short & Weak. I've seen it happen twice, and found evidence of a third time, complete with blood droplets. You can
do that to a 1911 too, and it will absolutely feed any junk ammo that you
can dig up...but it's not the right way to make it feed. Just because Glock
and H&K work it that way doesn't make it the correct way.

Fine-tuning a pistol is much more productive if one knows HOW to tune it.
Knowing why a malfunction occured is the key to making sure that the gun doesn't make a habit of it, and it's pretty easy to do if the understanding is there. Too many read a magazine article, assume that they understand it, and go smith their gun to death.

And that was MY $.02 worth...

Be well,
Tuner

 

[tc300mag1]

What about the glunks with the broken frame rails that are just up grades not Recalls??

The Kabooms are all ready mentioned .. but i will say the HK barrel has a lot more support that a glunk 40 .. I see this thread dying soon since its turned into a brand name flame war

 

[Jim K]

Rhetorical question:

Which is "better", the high price gun that doesn't work or the Norinco that does. One of my Norincos has gone over 8000 with ZERO malfunctions, the other is well over 2000, with ZERO malfunctions.

How many failures are too many? One, in a gunfight. And you can't even call customer service because you are too damned dead.

Jim

 

[1911Tuner]

One Too Many

Jim said:

How many failures are too many? One, in a gunfight. And you can't even call customer service because you are too damned dead.
---------------------------------

Now, here is a man who understands the question. I dropped my candy on the Norincos when they hit the market, Jim...If I had my time to do over,
I'd have borrowed money and bought a pickup truck load of'em. Same goes for all those 70 and 80 dollar GI pistols from the good old days.

They're simple...They're made of good steel..They're in-spec...and they
work. A friend of mine has been doin' his level best to break a used pair
that he bought on the same day 3 years ago...so far without success.
His total malfunction count has been 3...all failures to lock the slide on empty. He cleans the guns whenever he feels like it.

Colt? Do you hear us out here? From what I saw today, Springfield
Armory has..and they have answered loud and clear.

Cheers! (Bedtime)

Tuner

 

[Sean Smith]

With all due respect to you 1911 owners out there (I used to own one too) , jams are to be expected in the 1911.

You got a bad 1911 once? Boo hoo. About a dozen companies have only made about a billion of them in the last 90 years. As a basis for judging all 1911s, your sample size of one is pretty damn weak.

I like my 1911 for the same reason I liked all my previous 1911s, from the $570 one to the $2,000 one... because they work.

 

[LeonCarr]

I agree with 1911tuner, but it still burns me up that you have some really good 1911s out there, and they ship the gun with a $5.95 type magazine. I understand that competition is fierce in the 1911 world, but the customer suffers when you ship guns with untuned extractors and junk magazines. I shoot a Glock so I don't have to suffer .

I promise I am not a total 1911 hater, but I have been burned by them too many times to go back.

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

 

[Feanaro]

With all due respect to you 1911 owners out there (I used to own one too) , jams are to be expected in the 1911. It's only a question of the frequency. Sure, you can cut it down to 1 in a thousand, but that takes a lot of effort and adjustments and maybe smithing that other guns don't need.

Since you clearly value reliability highly, consider another kind of pistol, or a revolver. The word "Glock" is heresy but hey, they are reliable as hell. Or get a Smith&Wesson 625 , if you want to stick with the excellent .45acp cartridge, or a 686. Then sleep well.

I guess you've never seen a Glock Kaboom? Or a brand new Glock jam with five factory magazines, every shot?

All handguns are subject to jams, even the almighty Glock. A well-made 1911(Not some thousand dollar race gun, just a well-made 1911 that hasn't been tuned, fiddled with or "improved".) will run just as well as a Glock in all practical terms.