How Many times?

[MrDig]

I just had a thought... it occurred to me that most of the complaints about 1911/A1's revolve around function and reliability.
I have yet to experience this, but none the less these seem to be the chief complaints. So...
How many times do you think the average GI .45 was field stripped and reassembled?
Countless literaly countless.
It is my opinion that this is why the GI issue .45 preformed the way it did. Millions of GI's taking them apart and reassembling them put them into functional tolerence. Therefore a NIB GI .45 will in fact have functionallity issues. It simply has not been field stripped enough to provide the prerequisit function. Every GI has to strip and reassemble their respective weapons countless times to pass a proficiency test with them.

To all you dissatisfied .45 owners I suggest you try and field strip one and reassemble it in 1.5 minutes. repeat as necessary until you can do it in your sleep.... or blindfolded, until from simple muscle memory you can do it 30 years later without missing a beat. Give an old Vet a .45 and I will bet you he can still school you on proper maintenence.
Want a gun that goes POP every time without maintenence? buy something else, but stop berating a weapon that has saved Millions and I mean multiple millions of lives. They functioned well for GI's for over 70 years, mostly because we had to know them like we knew every freckle on our hand.
Of course I know this is a lot to ask but is the price you need to pay to be worthy of the greatest handguns
and the only one all others simply copy.
P.S. I know this will raise some dandur so let fly

 

[Old Fuff]

The USGI pistols were made to strict dimensional and material standards. In addition, besides the contractor's inspectors the government kept their own on site to be sure things were done right. Consequently they worked fine -right out of the box.

The clones being made today seldom match anybody's blueprints, and careful inspection is gone with the wind. Rather then manufacturer a pistol, most of the makers buy all of the parts from other sources and simply put a gun together. Given the way they are built it should come as a surprise that they work at all.

It is improbable that simply taking the pistol apart and putting it back together numerous times would effect its reliability one way or the other. Keeping it clean and lubricated would help.

 

[AK103K]

I think Old Fuff summed it up very nicely!

 

[modifiedbrowning]

Want a gun that goes POP every time without maintenence?

What a novel idea.

 

[David904]

If we all had a Precision Weapons Shop for our armory and quality control, I daresay that sub par firearms in our arsenals would be few and far between.

There really isn't any excuse for NIB GI .45 to operate anything less than the expected industry standard - short of shoddy QC. Unfortunately, some well known manufacturers of Government Model .45s suffer/ed from such shortcomings at various times.

I love my Colt Gov't Issue .45. It is a fine weapon system and personally my preferred one. I routinely strip it down to the pin and extractor and keep it well maintained. Straight out of the box, I went through 300 rounds at the range with NO malfunctions. I have currently fired several thousand rounds through it and have had (STILL) no malfunctions due to the pistol's design or construction. I did experience an issue after an incompetent gunsmith reassembled my pistol incorrectly after performing a trigger-job (clean up). This would have affected any firearm. The brand or caliber is inconsequential. However as soon as that was rectified, my .45 went right back to eating anything and everything I fed it.

No firearm will "Go 'POP' every time without maintenance." To treat a personal defense firearm in such a cavalier manner is suicidal. True... There are manufacturers out there that use materials less prone to corrosion than others; but just because you can do something, does not mean that you should.

 

[1911 guy]

Is the 1911 a milsurp?

Most 1911 pattern pistols I've seen that have reliability issues are the ones owned by armchair commandos who feel the need to bubba their gun at the kitchen table, then blame the pistol when it doesn't run 100 percent. Buy a decently made pistol, keep it clean and lubed, then shoot the tar out of it. I've owned several 1911 clones and had exactly ONE that was sub-par. Incidently, it was a Para Ordnance with a ramped barrel, FLGR, plastic parts and cheap MIM internals.

Excluding that one example, I've never had a pistol fail to deliver right out of the box. Take it home, clean and lube it, everything works as advertized. If you want it 'smithed, learn to do it properly or send it to someone who does things right. Most complaints I hear are from folks who cry about their 3" aluminum frame double stack and oh yeah I did this and that and the other to it pistols.

Kinda like taking a pristine Enfield, chopping the barrel, porting it with a hand drill, recrowning it with a file, putting it in a balsa wood stock because it's lighter and wondering why it won't shoot accurately at 500 yards anymore.

 

[AK103K]

The only ones I've had that worked without problem out of the box have been Colts, and a couple of early Springfields, when they were still making them close to Colt/GI specs. Springfields stuff these days, even the GI models, are VERY hit or miss, and for me, they have been mostly miss. Their frames also vary greatly, often from gun to gun in the same series.

The closer you leave the gun to Colt specs, the better off reliability wise your going to be. To bad most of the other makers these days have other ideas.

 

[Walkalong]

Old Fluff has it right and it drives us 1911 fans absolutely nuts. :banghead:

 

[shaggycat]

My Custom Target II hasn't failed ever. No ftf or fte. I bought the sucker, did a light cleaning, and shot it. It doesn't rattle when I shake it and there is no play in the slide. Perhaps it would fail when filthy, I haven't gone more than a couple hundred rounds without a good cleaning.

At the same time, I agree that a lot of the problems have to do with changes to the design. The original 1911 worked just fine, evidenced by it's incredible success in numerous wars. Yet the tinkerer wants to mess with what isn't broken.

My experience is fairly limited, seeing as I only own one, but it shoots accurately and reliably. So at least some guns are reliable nowadays.

 

[mpmarty]

Success in wars??

What success? Which wars? The 1911 was officer jewelry and so ineffective it was thought to replace it with the M1 carbine. I know of no historical records indicating the use of a 1911 as a combat weapon when there was ANY OTHER weapon available. The 1911 was an absolute last resort and if you had to use it you had screwed up badly in some way.

 

[MrDig]

I personally know of Two Bronze Medal recipients who used .45's one was my DI, who in Viet Nam, used only a .45 to over take a mortar emplacment and save two wounded buddy's and reactivate the Mortar. It was documented in the orders hanging behind his desk. The other was a Member of my Dads VFW. He was part of Normandy, I also saw the orders for that commendation, and the .45 was also listed as the weapon used. They all may not be docummented but there are a lot of cases where a 1911/A1 saved somebody's bacon.

FWIW the post was originally intended to be a tongue in cheek stab at people too lazy to familiarize themselves with any weapon, let alone one they supposedly use as a "my life depends on this equipment" weapon.
I guess I missed the ten ring in my original post, maybe I was off the paper completely.

 

[mljdeckard]

No historical records? So you're saying through the most brutal action in the last 100 years, everyone carried them for fun? Yes, they were sidearms, and sidearms are backup, but they were NOT just carried by officers. They were the most effectice sidearm employed during that timeframe.

The fact that no new pistols were purchased by the government after WWII speaks volumes about its longevity. My little brother just went through cavalry training at Ft. Knox, and their Berettas are falling apart.

I very much like the fact that my Kimber has a hand-fitted slide and frame. But at the same time, I was glad to drop the guide rod and use a regular plunger so I could strip it more easily. (By the way, several thousand rounds, no ftf, no fte, and those abominable MIM parts are still working just fine.)

 

[Old Fuff]

mpmarty:

Ah.... What about Sgt. York???

 

[foob]

but stop berating a weapon that has saved Millions and I mean multiple millions of lives.

Er... I respectfully disagree.

So you're saying through the most brutal action in the last 100 years, everyone carried them for fun?

Er... carrying not for fun does not equate saved millions of lives, most effective sidearm, or most reliable, or best design.

They were the most effectice sidearm employed during that timeframe.

Er... that timeframe and the present is a little different. Also most effective? Just because it was standard army issue, and it cost too much to replace then, doesn't mean it's most effective.

The fact that no new pistols were purchased by the government after WWII speaks volumes about its longevity.

Er.. maybe because there were other more important weapons to replace? Like the rifle? I'm sorry but the 1911 didn't win WW2. Maybe after the most brutal and expensive war the USA has ever been in, other issues were of higher priority than a sidearm that worked reasonably well.


I own a 1911, and I love it, but come on, there has to be better reasons than this.

Anyway, what's with all the 1911 "bashing" threads lately.

 

[MrDig]

No new orders for 1911 were place by the military due to the fact that they had so many they would never run out. Plus all the replacement parts they would need. You could walk into the average Depot level armory and build enough .45s to supply an entire Batallion, and still have more parts.