How much better are expensive knives?

[genxsis]

I'm more of a gun person, but am somewhat interested in knives and may consider getting one, but I'm not sure about what to look for.

To me, a knife is just a sharpened piece of steel with a handle on it. So why such a huge price range? A gun actually performs a task. It shoots a projectile a supersonic speeds that covers great distances. So when I see a knife, I think "why pay $80 when one that costs under $10 is basically the same thing?"

So I'm now asking those of you in the know, what should I be looking for in a defensive knife, and what qualities are found in the more expensive ones what can they do that a cheaper one cannot do?

 

[Fosbery]

More expensive knives, in theory, have a number of advantages over cheaper ones. A few off the top of my head are:

Quality of steel (which affects how sharp the knife can get, how long it keeps an edge, how strong it is and how resistant to corrosion it is)
Blade coating (if there is one)
Strength of lock (in the case of folding knives)
Fit and finish
Strength of construction
Ergonomics
Quality and effectivness of the handle material

In some cases expensive knives will also have more advanced blade shapes and various 'extras' like glass breakers or pocket clips.

However, a word of warning: some expensive knives are fantastic and worth every penny. Others however, are woefully over prived and just not worth the money. At the same time, some cheap knives are great value for money.

Whether you need an expensive knife really comes down to what you do with it. If you use it for any serious task then I'd spend a fair ammount of money. If it's life or death stuff, spend all you can. But if you just want to open a fex boxes then go cheap.

 

[genxsis]

: But if you just want to open a fex boxes then go cheap

Yeah, that's kind of what I'm doing right now. I have a Stanley Fat Max utility knife in my pocket now! It's razor sharp for only a couple pennies per blade!

I don't think I'd want to use it for defensive purposes though, so I'm thinking of some kind of fixed blade. Wisconsin law says I can't carry anything over 3 inches long. Is that really enough?

 

[Mandirigma]

To me, a knife is just a sharpened piece of steel with a handle on it. So why such a huge price range? A gun actually performs a task. It shoots a projectile a supersonic speeds that covers great distances. So when I see a knife, I think "why pay $80 when one that costs under $10 is basically the same thing?"

I'm guessing you don't just own Hi-Points, I mean after all it just shoots a projectile. Why spend $500 for a 1911/glock (or whatever) when one that costs under $125 is basically the same thing?



3" blade is plenty long enough, it can get to the areas needed. As with handguns training is key.

I think Fosberry covered most the basics. One I think he missed is thickness, some of the higher end knives end up being thicker than any of the production blades out there.

But for me I learned a long time back that you need to buy quality tools. Be it knife, gun, wrench, or etc.


$25-50/inch of forged/ground blade plus the work on the handles, really isn't bad.

 

[KINGMAX]

KERSHAW - Ken Onion

If you want a great knife, go to Wally World, Sporting Goods - knife counter - get that solid black w/ a straight blade, Kershaw - Ken Onion Blackout assisted opening pocket knife. About fifty dollers - You won't be disappointed.

 

[RyanM]

Ken Onion knives are pretty decent for their price range, but don't get one at Wally World. They buy up all the Kershaw factory seconds they can get, and sell them alongside the regular ones. It's the luck of the draw whether you get a good one or not.

 

[Valkman]

I know it's suprising to many, but Wallly World knives are not the cream of the crop! As another poster suggested, do you only buy the cheapest guns? What's the difference between a cheap gun and a really good one? Same with knives - if you want a knife with excellent steel and heat treat, made and fitted by hand well that costs more and yes it's worth it.

 

[KINGMAX]

I must have gotten a good one

I must have gotten a good one. I keep it razor sharp, ez out everytime. I couldn't ask for more.

 

[hso]

genxsis,

Terms are important so that we all know if we're discussing the same thing.

What do you mean when you say "defensive knife"?

What do you think is expensive and inexpensive?

Will your defensive knife be used for anything else like an every day carry (EDC) knife would or will it be reserved exclusively for self defense?

Thanks!

 

[rbmcmjr]

In the past, I have never attempted to quantify this, but I think I will give it a shot here. As recently as two years ago, I didn't own anything more expensive than a Victorinox SAK (the Hunter model). I joined here to talk guns and ended up being exposed to some fancy cutlery. The fact that it is easier to buy knives over the net than guns led me down the slippery slope of premium knives.

In the photos below, I paired crap knives (three from Frost Cutlery bought several years ago from one of those tv shows like the infamous breaking katana guys, before I wised up) with their quality counterparts. Beyond the quality of the steel itself, Fit and finish is the most obvious area where your money makes a difference. But for me, the biggest advantage is the relationship with the manufacturer. Of the four up-market knives in these pictures, the Krein and Primos are "custom", the Busse is semi-custom, and the Reeve is production. In the case of the first three, I have a personal relationship with the makers. If I have a problem, I can contact them and work things out. I've never met Chris Reeve, but everything I have heard about the man tells me that he is just as personable as Jerry Busse. Try having that sort of connection with a place like Frost's.

Primos Montero vs. Frost's Deer Skinner
Steel: Forged 1084 vs. "Japan Surgical Stainless"
Cost: $350 (and Terry is retired) vs. $15

Reeve Shadow I vs. Frost's Brass Survival knife
Steel: A2 vs. "Pakistan Stainless"
Cost: $400 vs. $25

Krein TK-5 vs. some generic thing one of my sailors gave me
Steel: D2 vs. "Japan Stainless"
Cost: $350 vs. free



Busse Fusion Battle Mistress Limited Edition vs. Frost's Defender Bowie:
Steel: INFI vs. "Japan Stainless"
Cost: $700 vs. $35



Rick - newly minted steel snob

 

[22-rimfire]

Most "expensive" knives are substantially better than "cheap" knives. Avoid Chinese steel. Japanese steel is good. Once you get to the $100 price range, the differences are a matter of degree. Your first $100 buys you 60-75% of the better knives. $300 buys you 90% of the best knives.

You're obviously cost value conscious. I would ease into the knife market and get an assisted folder from Spyderco, SOG, Kershaw, or Benchmade. I carry a SOG Twitch II and like it for a small assisted opening knife that tends to be razor sharp. Want something a bit larger, get the XL version. Price is under $50 or less. It is great on boxes and fun to open up!

Added: Sorry Fosbery, correct. Spyderco does not have assisted openers. They make some great knives that are very fast to open though. I sort of just grouped things together and then mentioned what I carry and what I like. The Spyderco Native is inexpensive, pretty fast and handy, and well made and is available at Wal-Mart.

 

[Fosbery]

Not to be picky, but as far as I am aware neither Spyderco nor Benchmade make assisted opening knives.

However, if you're looking for a good folding knife, you can't go wrong with either company, nor with SOG, Kershaw or Camillus, the main assisted opener producers.

 

[thebaldguy]

Not to say that cheaper is better, but I've had pretty good luck with cheaper knives. I've bought a variety of folders, and they all seemed to work well and stay sharp. Oh, and when you lose it, it's not too painful when you misplace a $15 knife.

 

[CWL]

Knives are like guns or cars or any other tool. They all will basically get the job done. Some better than others, depending on what it was designed for. Some are so poorly made that you can actually hurt yourself with it.

While I have $9.00 Moras which are as dependable as my $400 handmades (my pricepoint for knives), there is room in my collection for both.

But, just like tools, cars and guns, some will perform better, are more dependable or will last longer. Well-made ones will take less time to perform a task and may be more comfortable (no blisters).

Sometimes, but not always, expensive ones will simply last through the entire job: ie. would you rather drive a Yugo car from one end of the USA to the other, or would you prefer a Mercedes sedan? -It's been done in both but which was more comfortable, faster and dependable?

I also simply like the craftsmanship that someone took the time to hand-make my knife. Like art, you don't have to like it -it only matters that I like it.

 

[cosine]

Wisconsin law says I can't carry anything over 3 inches long.

Really? I wasn't aware of such a state-wide restriction. Could you show me where it says that, please?

I know Milwaukee has a blade length limit of under 3 inches, having declared any knife with a blade of 3 inches or longer to be a dangerous weapon per se, and illegal to carry, but that is only a city ordinance.

 

[.cheese.]

Fosbery - I don't know about Spyderco because all I own by them is their Sharpmaker sharpener, but as for Benchmade, yes they do make AO and auto knives. I believe they even make an OTF knife or two.

As for the difference between expensive and cheap knives... actually explaining it is tough, but I have noticed a difference between at least my Buck knives (not so great) and my Benchmade knives (excellent). Leatherman falls somewhere in between. CRKT as well.

Something about my Benchmades just feels better, cuts better, and seems more durable.

Whether or not it's just a matter of perception is what's left to debate.

 

[hso]

If you're looking for a dedicated defensive fixed blade knife that you'll only use in the possibly single event of an attack, then you can go to an inexpensive knife without any problem. Since it won't have to perform often and won't be expected to have to hold an edge very long you can forego durability, rust resistance, edge holding ability and hardness. A cheap Tramontina cook's knife for $10 will fill the bill. You can have a good carry sheath made for $50 or fashion one yourself from cardboard and duct tape for nearly free. Remember to spray paint the blade in marine paint to keep the sweat from your body from causing rust. You may want to build the grip up a little with tape to fit your hand better.

It takes nothing more than this if your only interest is to have a knife that can be used once or twice against another person and then thrown away. Remember that there are more people killed with kitchen knives every year than with any other type of knife. If you can sharpen, then the knife could see a lifetime of use.

 

[zahc]

For a company that spends your money where it counts on functional designs and beautiful steels, look no further than Spyderco. Many of their knives are very affordable, but none of them are bad.

 

[bad LT]

If you're looking for a dedicated defensive fixed blade knife that you'll only use in the possibly single event of an attack, then you can go to an inexpensive knife without any problem.

Very true...

However, if you intend to carry a folding knife for defense, I would recommend spending a little $$$ (right now at least 30-50 dollars) and get a good lock. All folding knives are essentially "pre-broken" fixed blade knives . The degree of there "brokenness" is determined by the quality of their lock.

The difference between a 50 dollar spyderco and a 300 dollar super-duper knife is much smaller than a 5 dollar chepo knife and a 50 dollar spyderco.

 

[JShirley]

why pay $80 when one that costs under $10 is basically the same thing?"

Never happen. If you buy super cheap, don't expect much. There is a happy medium where knives like Kershaw and Spyderco live. There is a point of diminishing returns, too. That upper 10% of performance is pretty expensive

It's not really true that guns don't have similar variances in price. One can pay from a low of about $80 for a quality- but no frills- single shot shotgun, all the way up into the hundreds of thousands of dollars. I would prefer to pay $200 for a Makarov or used S&W revolver, than $100 for a new piece of zinc.

 

[sm]

The key is : What is one getting for monies spent?

For a simple example allow me to use a Old Hickory Paring knife one can purchase at the Mom & Pop Hardware store for about $3.

$3 is a lot of money for a person with say a spouse dying of cancer, or a child terminally ill.

$3 is pocket change to many folks, that much is probably loose in the bottom of a purse, console of vehicle or desk drawer at work.

Now this paring knife with a 3 1/4" carbon steel 1095 is easy to sharpen, holds an edge, and is proven in the kitchen, the garden, dressing game, cleaning fish , opening boxes, cutting string, rope...

...and has been used to stop an immediate threat / used to commit serious crimes against persons resulting in injury and death.

Contrast

There are some kitchen knives that sell for more money, with fancier handles, and steels that come with special edges (serrated and such). One cannot "really" sharpen these, basically designed to be disposed of when "dull". The steels do not have the "elasticity" of the Old Hickory so therefore more prone to "snap".

Knives, guns, and anything else boils down to Software-not-Hardware, common sense, tool for task, budget, "fit to user" , "knowing how to use a tool" and one big key is what works for YOU and accepting what another uses- may not be best for YOU.

Locking knives with great steel are great, unless one is in the UK. One has to know the legal aspects as well now-a-days as well. UK is not allowed locking knives or blades longer than 3".

$3 Old Hickory 3 1/4" paring knife I can legally carry in my jurisdiction, it is under the 3 1/2 " legal limits.

Oh, I do have a personal thing about my intelligence being insulted. Do not mark something , say my example of a $3 Old Hickory knife up to $6 and tell me it is "on sale" or "50% off" and I can buy it for $3.

Bottom line is, I am getting a certain OH paring knife for $3 , and I am getting what I am getting for monies spent.
Now if Mom & Pop sell it to me for $2.50, then and only then did I get a special deal.

No Holy Grails in anything.

My point is - as John touched on - point of diminishing returns and pride of ownership.
Would a custom Ivory handle on that $3 OH knife make it a better defensive knife? Nope.
It would only mean something to me, if I were take pride of ownership in having this done and "customized" to my liking.

Now for me, a bit bigger handle, and some other "fit to my hands" would indeed make this $3 OH paring knife a better defensive tool, with a quality leather sheath.

More money invested in training to use it, the handle and sheath than the blade steel itself.
Same as a used police trade in Model 10 for CCW. Stocks to fit, training, trigger time and holster to fit me.

hso-
How we doing on "that" project? *grin*

Steve

 

[Fosbery]

Just had a look around and indeed Benchmade do make an assisted opener - the Apparition. I know they make autos and OTFs, but hadn't heard of this Apparition. There may be others but that's the one I found.

I checked and Spyderco don't make any, but like I said I'd still reccomend them

 

[whited]

.

To me, a knife is just a sharpened piece of steel with a handle on it.

You might be better served sticking with the $10 knives.

A gun actually performs a task.

A knife performs many tasks.

 

[genxsis]

Whew! This is alot to respond to.

I don't know where exactly it says in WI that we can only carry a knife with a 3" blade. I believe I've been told by the cops several times in person. Once I called on the phone to get this statement verified, and I was told by the dispatcher "We don't give legal advice."

Perhaps I'm really not that much of a knife person. When I said that a knife is just a sharpened piece of steel with a handle on it, I meant that it's not a mechanical, functioning bunch of parts that can do more than can be done to a significant degree than without it. A gun is that way, and so I can understand the prices being in the hundreds with them. But a knife is soooooo much simpler of a device, and that kind of leads me to wonder about why the prices of them can be as much as a gun.

 

[Zeke/PA]

I believe that knives can reach a point where they cease to be merely tools and become an art form.
Then, pride in ownership becomes important.
A few years back, I was involved in helping a local firm develop their line of cutlery.
After extensive research, the product became reality and now a great line of kitchen cutlery is being marketed at not so cheap prices.
My Chicago Cutlery Santoku blade cuts an onion very well and it cost only $20.00.
I recently came across some Chinese filet knives complete with heavy duty nylon sheath for $8.00 each . They sharpen and hold an edge very well.
I guess knives are what we want them to be.
Zeke